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What do the LM, VM, and CM still designations mean? I see them referenced frequently, but can't find an explanation.

Also, in Zymurgy Bob's post Read Me First Discussion (http://www.artisan-distiller.net/phpBB3 ... 46#p121746), he says; "In An Overview of Potstilling, you learned how to run your potstill...".

I am unable to find that post or any reference to it.

Will some kind soul please point me to it?

Thanks.

Take a peek here:
https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 6#p7154256

Liquid Management , Vapour Management , Cooling Management.
As far as I'm aware not all of Bobs book can be viewed free on line, it is for sale though and pretty easy to track down.

Also a good search for terms would be our glossary:
viewtopic.php?f=46&t=58100

Might as well add CCVM to the list of acronyms - condenser controlled vapour management

That just makes it a CM in my book.

OtisT wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 5:02 pm That just makes it a CM in my book.

Not really Otis , in a CCVM you are not adjusting coolant flow but rather moving the physical position of the condenser . It is a VM .

I see where Otis is coming from....by moving the condenser up or down are you not managing the amount of cooling?

No, but you are changing where the reflux is occurring (in relation to the offtake). A similar discussion about the nature of the CCVM design took place in 2013 in the Condenser Controlled Column thread viewtopic.php?f=17&t=41579

Didn't see those terms in the glossary I located previously. Perhaps there is more than one. Thanks.

Yummyrum wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:02 pm

OtisT wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 5:02 pm That just makes it a CM in my book.

Not really Otis , in a CCVM you are not adjusting coolant flow but rather moving the physical position of the condenser . It is a VM .

You are not controlling the coolant flow. Yes you are correct in that statement. But you are controlling the coolant. You are not controlling the vapors by mechanical means. You are controlling the vapor with the coolant you are controlling by moving it. So it’s a CM still.

You are letting alcohol vapors through by the amount of cooling action the coolant system is imposing on the rising vapors. And you are adjusting the coolant system to allow the vapors you want to flow by. Again it’s a cooling management still.

Just because the condenser is above the takeoff doesn’t make it not a CM still. You are just imposing your will on the vapors from a different angle. Above the take off instead of below the takeoff.

You are physically adjusting the coolant system. You are not physically adjusting the vapors. So I would agree. That is a CM still in my book.

I would disagree and say it’s a vm. You are managing the takeoff by valving the vapor. You just happen to use a condenser as the valve.

If you lowered the condenser and then controlled it by coolant flow I would say, yes it’s a CM. But by raising and lowering the condenser with a fixed flow, you are not using coolant flow to manage takeoff.

When the RC is above the offtake, you can change the flow of coolant but the result is the same.

It's CCVM, not CCCM for a reason. Your condenser becomes the valve as stated above, and coolant flow is not the controlling factor.

I feel bad that I am somewhat to blame for this thread being hijacked. I am happy if the moderators want to move the tail end of this thread to the condenser controlled column thread

Thanks for the graphic Kimbodious . That says what I was thinking exactly .

No need to move it . It is a good discussion and quite relavent . ... and I’m not just saying that ‘cause its validating my theory .

Adjusting where the condenser is to change where and how the vapour is collected is mechanical as heck, it is the definition of mechanical manipulation. Such a configuration will/does change the type of management 100% and not in any ambiguous way. What class of management still this is relates directly to the configuration it is ran at any given time, ei. It varies.

Which type of still would this correctly be considered beside an obvious pot... !?? I've removed the copper screen wadding I kept wrapped up in the lower 3" column portion so this might be a great segway point to ask if I should put it my wad back in, reduce it somewhat or simply keep it out!!?? The only real control I have for a faster or slower run is how much heat I turn on on the propane burner. I have put a mark on the dial for my low and slow running! This is an old picture as I'm getting back into this after 6 yrs not at it! I've just enlarged/replaced my liebig considerably to start this too!

Greig56 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 12, 2025 1:02 pm StillKitSetup20Jul2019.jpg Which type of still would this correctly be considered beside an obvious pot... !?? I've removed the copper screen wadding I kept wrapped up in the lower 3" column portion so this might be a great segway point to ask if I should put it my wad back in, reduce it somewhat or simply keep it out!!?? The only real control I have for a faster or slower run is how much heat I turn on on the propane burner. I have put a mark on the dial for my low and slow running! This is an old picture as I'm getting back into this after 6 yrs not at it! I've just enlarged/replaced my liebig considerably to start this too!

It is a pot still with a tall riser.

The rolled up copper mesh within the lower part of the riser just adds copper to the vapor path. I'd leave it in there.

It is just a Pot still .
As you have it insulated , there will be negligible difference between having packing in there or not . There is enough copper surface in the riser ( both 2 and 3” sections ) that I see no need to add any more inside the riser .But as SMF said , seeing as it’s already there , just leave it .

Dare I laugh and ask that a LM, VM would have more to it besides that shown. I'm thinking mine is a CM... controlled by the amount of heat applied! Non?
I read this then read further about basic reflux design viewtopic.php?f=60&t=46216#p7154256 I can't say mine is strictly CM,,, by controlling my liebig's cooling -I presently aren't controlling there! -Just that by heat applied!
Nothing more than a basic pot still here,,, does that determine a type beyond basic POT?? Nothin' fancy here!!!

Greig56 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 12, 2025 1:55 pm Dare I laugh and ask that a LM, VM would have more to it besides that shown. I'm thinking mine is a CM... controlled by the amount of heat applied! Non?
I read this then read further about basic reflux design viewtopic.php?f=60&t=46216#p7154256 I can't say mine is strictly CM,,, by controlling my liebig's cooling -I presently aren't controlling there! -Just that by heat applied!
Nothing more than a basic pot still here,,, does that determine a type beyond basic POT?? Nothin' fancy here!!!

It is not a CM still in any way.

It's just a basic pot still. A boiler, riser and product condenser.

Salt Must Flow wrote: ↑Sat Apr 12, 2025 2:04 pm
It is not a CM still in any way.

It's just a basic pot still. A boiler, riser and product condenser.

All reflux stills need something to cool some or all of the vapor into liquid, aka reflux.

Greig56 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 12, 2025 1:55 pm Dare I laugh and ask that a LM, VM would have more to it besides that shown. I'm thinking mine is a CM... controlled by the amount of heat applied! Non?
I read this then read further about basic reflux design viewtopic.php?f=60&t=46216#p7154256 I can't say mine is strictly CM,,, by controlling my liebig's cooling -I presently aren't controlling there! -Just that by heat applied!
Nothing more than a basic pot still here,,, does that determine a type beyond basic POT?? Nothin' fancy here!!!

I think it’s worth point out that the “M” in LM, VM, CM, or CCVM or referring to the means of controlling the reflux ratio. If you don’t have any liquid reflux going back down to interact with the vapor going up, it’s a pot still no matter how you slice it.

Greig56 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 12, 2025 1:02 pm
Which type of still would this correctly be considered beside an obvious pot...

It's a pot still and off topic when discussing the difference between LM, VM, CM still heads.

Steve Broady wrote: ↑Sat Apr 12, 2025 5:48 pm
I think it’s worth point out that the “M” in LM, VM, CM, or CCVM or referring to the means of controlling the reflux ratio.

Hi Steve. I think the M in Management stands for the management of the take off rate. I may be mistaken. Could not find and answer for sure with some searches.

OtisT wrote: ↑Sun Apr 13, 2025 1:34 am

Steve Broady wrote: ↑Sat Apr 12, 2025 5:48 pm
I think it’s worth point out that the “M” in LM, VM, CM, or CCVM or referring to the means of controlling the reflux ratio.

Hi Steve. I think the M in Management stands for the management of the take off rate. I may be mistaken. Could not find and answer for sure with some searches.

Ain't that the truth!

Pure Old Possum Piss wrote: ↑Sun Apr 13, 2025 4:57 am

OtisT wrote: ↑Sun Apr 13, 2025 1:34 am

Steve Broady wrote: ↑Sat Apr 12, 2025 5:48 pm
I think it’s worth point out that the “M” in LM, VM, CM, or CCVM or referring to the means of controlling the reflux ratio.

Hi Steve. I think the M in Management stands for the management of the take off rate. I may be mistaken. Could not find and answer for sure with some searches.

Ain't that the truth!

Me speaks pretty.

Maybe I should back off on poising while under the influence. I hope the point got through, that I think Management is in reference to Take Off Rate, and not Reflux Ratio.

Pure Old Possum Piss wrote: ↑Sun Apr 13, 2025 4:57 am

OtisT wrote: ↑Sun Apr 13, 2025 1:34 am

Steve Broady wrote: ↑Sat Apr 12, 2025 5:48 pm
I think it’s worth point out that the “M” in LM, VM, CM, or CCVM or referring to the means of controlling the reflux ratio.

Hi Steve. I think the M in Management stands for the management of the take off rate. I may be mistaken. Could not find and answer for sure with some searches.

Ain't that the truth!

This is correct and Power Management ( PM) is also a thing . But we rarely refer to it as that , even though we regularly talk about Power controllers .

OtisT wrote: ↑Sun Apr 13, 2025 1:34 am

Steve Broady wrote: ↑Sat Apr 12, 2025 5:48 pm
I think it’s worth point out that the “M” in LM, VM, CM, or CCVM or referring to the means of controlling the reflux ratio.

Hi Steve. I think the M in Management stands for the management of the take off rate. I may be mistaken. Could not find and answer for sure with some searches.

True.. but doesn’t that directly control/impact the reflux ratio? Or am I misunderstanding something g?