Bain Marie Micro-barrels (aka my BadMo-eque bain marie barrel design)

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Clearmoon247
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Bain Marie Micro-barrels (aka my BadMo-eque bain marie barrel design)

Post by Clearmoon247 »

To preface, I have been designing my own micro-barrels for the better part of 4 years now, including redesigns, tooling, and streamlining the production methods to get where I am today. A few months ago, I was informed that a similar design has already been done. That was when I discovered BadMotivator and all of his efforts and designs. After conversing with him privately, it turns out that Bain Marie barrels happen to be the "everything evolves into crabs" of the barrel aging world. There was a company in Oregon doing the same thing I am, but they are no longer around. Additionally, there is another person in Washington who has a store front, but hasn't been making their design this year.

My design is a bit different from BadMo in that rather than having a bung and spigot built into the oak base, I cut a hole in the top of the stainless steel housing with a #6 bung and the oak base is fully intact.

For those who are interested in making their own, here is the basic overview of my process:

I start by using a 1.25Qt Bain Marie. A 1-1/8 inch carbide hole saw is able to make quick work of the thin steel. Then, I use a deburring tool and sandpaper to smooth out the edges of the hole.

Image

The oak base is cut out using a 4-1/2 inch bimetal hole saw in a drill press, removing the pilot bit from the center. The kerf happens to be the perfect size to fit into the bain marie. Once the oak disk has been made, I use a 12-ton hydraulic press to fit the oak base into the bain marie and form a water-tight seal, as it will slightly stretch the steel to accommodate the oak when the base is pressed in.

Image

Using this method, I am currently producing charred new American oak (24 month old yard-seasoned oak sourced from a cooperage), re-purposed wine and whiskey barrels, and exotic woods (only cherry and maple wood at the moment). Recently, I've been playing around with split-stave oak bases, utilizing the excess staves that wouldn't work for the main base blanks. I have a few Weller/Willet and Weller/Grand Cru Cabernet split stave bases to play with.

I know that in the future, I will invest in a router with circle jig to expand beyond the 1.25Qt (850ml actual volume) bain marie barrels, but I'm happy with what essentially is "single bottle volume" barrels for versatility and ease of approach for anyone.
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Re: Bain Marie Micro-barrels (aka my BadMo-eque bain marie barrel design)

Post by Yonder »

Very cool and definitely worth a try.
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Re: Bain Marie Micro-barrels (aka my BadMo-eque bain marie barrel design)

Post by Oldvine Zin »

Nice work! The only thing that I would change is the silicone bung, maybe with an oak one or do what Otis does with his.
Otis BMB bung.jpg
a stainless steel bolt as a bung.

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Re: Bain Marie Micro-barrels (aka my BadMo-eque bain marie barrel design)

Post by Clearmoon247 »

Oldvine Zin wrote: Wed Aug 18, 2021 9:55 pm Nice work! The only thing that I would change is the silicone bung, maybe with an oak one or do what Otis does with his. Otis BMB bung.jpg
a stainless steel bolt as a bung.

Stay safe
OVZ
I am working on finding a supplier of #6 poplar bungs.
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Re: Bain Marie Micro-barrels (aka my BadMo-eque bain marie barrel design)

Post by Badmotivator »

I love it!

Do you like to age your spirits with the barrels standing on their heads, so to speak? Or horizontal as I do?

Also, how thick do you like the heads to be, when you are using your virgin weathered oak?
Clearmoon247
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Re: Bain Marie Micro-barrels (aka my BadMo-eque bain marie barrel design)

Post by Clearmoon247 »

Badmotivator wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 5:02 pm I love it!

Do you like to age your spirits with the barrels standing on their heads, so to speak? Or horizontal as I do?

Also, how thick do you like the heads to be, when you are using your virgin weathered oak?
I do keep mine upright and have the spirits rest entirely on the heads (i.e. vertical).

When using virgin weathered oak, I aim for 1-1.1 inch (25-28mm) thick.
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Re: Bain Marie Micro-barrels (aka my BadMo-eque bain marie barrel design)

Post by The Baker »

Hi, Clearmoon247,
Interesting that you are using the little (850 ml actual capacity) bain marie (slightly) conical inserts.
I had thought, while gently kicking this idea around (thanks, and thanks to badmotivator)
that it would be too small to be useful but I am re-thinking that.
Actually I am thinking of 1.5 litres actual capacity...

Our favourite coffee, Moccona instant, is that size so we get free jars, about ten or so atm. and continuing.
They are not screw top; I can't figure out including a photo but google Images for Moccona
or just Moccona if that doesn't work...
Anyway you throw away the push-in plastic-covered top and there is a nice, strong, slightly narrower than the jar top edge.

(And a search of the interweb shows you are lucky to get the bm inserts at a reasonable price here, mostly they are dear.)

I could groove a piece of oak and clamp it on (firmly, not hard). Insert taps and fillers, perhaps in pairs of the barrels to save cost on taps...(!)
Internal size about 3.5(+) inches or 85 mls., and I could also use an oak stick if that was a bit small (not enough oak contact).

A couple of minor adjustments and there you have it!

And because the oak pieces would be quite small they could be cut from the lid or even the strakes
of an old barrel. They would probably not need to be dead flat but could be cut directly from the curved wood? (!!!)

Just kicking it around, like I said, but I think it has promise.

Geoff
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Re: Bain Marie Micro-barrels (aka my BadMo-eque bain marie barrel design)

Post by The Baker »

or even the strakes

That was a booboo.

To make a barrel you use one staff (well that is what you call each one) or a lot of STAVES.

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Re: Bain Marie Micro-barrels (aka my BadMo-eque bain marie barrel design)

Post by tiramisu »

If you wanted to get all techno. you could easily add a weldless sanitary ferrule. That way you could add any valve or spigot you like in 304 Stainless.
Untitled.jpg
then end cap
image.png
or spigot
image.png
add a valve in there somewhere
image.png
weeeee : :wave:
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Re: Bain Marie Micro-barrels (aka my BadMo-eque bain marie barrel design)

Post by The Baker »

Just kicking it around, like I said, but I think it has promise.

Making up a prototype using leftover pine floorboard ends.
If it works okay and when I get some oak I can use the leftover 'ends' on the 'other end of the clamp'
(of some more 'barrels').

But I would get a better woodworker to make the grooves!

I am using wood each end and long coach bolts to make a clamp...
Geoff
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Re: Bain Marie Micro-barrels (aka my BadMo-eque bain marie barrel design)

Post by The Baker »

I have set up the prototype and it looks possible.
The only thing is the seal in the groove where the jar sits in the wood.
Haven't made the groove yet.
One of my friends with better knowledge and equipment might have ideas.
Maybe a router or a lathe to make the groove.

And I don't know if it will seal into the groove just with (not too much, it's glass!) pressure.
I am using wingnuts for better control. With oversize washers.
And I don't know if the groove should be sort of roughly finished, not dead smooth.
And maybe I should run warm beeswax into the groove and immediately set the jar into that...

Then there's simple things a first attempt shows up.
Like if you are drilling a hole with a spade bit, first drill the wider part-way hole in which to set the bolt head.
Doing it the other way is a no-no.

I got thicker bolts than needed (all they had) and paid twice as much as in the big store...

Setting up one jar at a time took three bolts.
Sets of two (sharing timber end pieces, that is at the top and bottom of the jar) would take four bolts altogether.
Threes would take six bolts.
Fours would take seven bolts altogether.
If you go further fives take nine bolts, sixes take ten bolts...
That's side-by-side. (Or of course one-above-the-other.)

So sets of two are handier and not much dearer in terms of the bolts than any other combination...

Geoff
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Re: Bain Marie Micro-barrels (aka my BadMo-eque bain marie barrel design)

Post by Clearmoon247 »

Thought this might be well received here. One of my older Ten30 barrel of Ole Smokey Blue Flame moonshine finally reached 5 years old. After sampling it, I knew it was ready for bottling.

This barrel was filled on May 6, 2018 and dumped on May 22, 2023. Barrel entry proof was 120 (proofed down from 128) and aged in a Char #3 American oak barrel. It was aged entirely in a non-climate controlled garage for its lifespan. Final proof ended at 58.1% ABV. Yield: 650ml from initial 850ml filling.
20230522_183158.jpg
On to the review!

Nose: Very rich and sweet. maple, leather molasses, corn, and oak. Very pleasant compared to the unaged product thats purely sugar dust and corn.

Palate: dark chocolate, leather, tobacco, sweet corn, and barrel char followed by a faint red fruity sweetness

Finish: A lingering breathe of oak, char, creme brule, and typical bourbon cherry.

Thoughts: While I normally prefer to dump barrels during the winter months (~45-55°F), this barrel was going to be pulled regardless of where its aging process was. I couldn't be happier with the results of 5 years of waiting. It is a very rich and delicious whiskey that far exceeds the source grain & sugar spirit that I got on sale for $15 many years ago.

Overall Rating: 8.5/10

For those who may be concerned about aging whiskey in the Ten30 or Badmotivator barrels from new make, I hope this gives you some piece of mind. I have several barrels that are in the 6 year range so far that I look forward to bottling when they are ready to my palate.
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