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are whiskey barrels "toasted"
Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:28 am
by squigglefunk
Seems to me they aren't? I have watched the building process, I never saw any toasting going on. Charring the inside, yes, but does that really toast the wood all the way through?
Re: are whiskey barrels "toasted"
Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:46 am
by NormandieStill
It will toast the wood directly underneath the char. The heat penetrates further into the wood than the char. The char just happens at the point where the wood has gotten hot enough.
Char a piece of oak and then cut it with a saw and you'll see the wood change colour (a little) as you get further into it.
I think you can control this process by controlling the heat. A super hot flame with rapidly char the surface without penetrating far, whereas toasting for a very long time at lower temperature might eventually causing surface charring, but would toast the wood to quite a depth. SOYCD uses and inverse of this effect by freezing the wood before charring. That way he limits the heat effects to the surface of the wood.
Re: are whiskey barrels "toasted"
Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:04 pm
by TDick
squigglefunk wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:28 am
Charring the inside, yes, but does that really toast the wood all the way through?
For what it's worth, I was in Nashville this week. For a liquid lunch, I stopped at Pennington Distillery
About Pennington Distillery
They mentioned they not only use barrels with a heavy char, they are also toasted.
and they gave me a piece of a stave to cut down.
Re: are whiskey barrels "toasted"
Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:07 pm
by jonnys_spirit
I'm thinking next time I use "oak fingers" i'll cut up some fresh staves and do a 30-40 second char only no toast. I've got some wide mouth gallon jugs with large cork stoppers so I can use an appropriate chunk of stave without cutting down to finger size and still fit it through the mouth of the jar...
Hope you enjoyed Nashville TDick!
Cheers,
jonny
Re: are whiskey barrels "toasted"
Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:15 pm
by Stonecutter
TDick wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:04 pm
squigglefunk wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:28 am
Charring the inside, yes, but does that really toast the wood all the way through?
For what it's worth, I was in Nashville this week. For a liquid lunch, I stopped at Pennington Distillery
About Pennington Distillery
They mentioned they not only use barrels with a heavy char, they are also toasted.
and they gave me a piece of a stave to cut down.
That’s good shit TDick.
Looks like they’re into a bunch of stuff down there. What all did you end up trying?
Re: are whiskey barrels "toasted"
Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:19 am
by higgins
There is a page on whiskey barrel production at Brown-Foreman on whisky.com:
Barrel Production
Section 6, Toasting:
This toasting process is not required to make a Bourbon or Tennessee Whiskey. Although most of the Bourbon are known for their sweet and caramel flavour profile and so most of them do toast the barrels. In the next picture you can see that the inside of the barrel is now a dark brown. They have been toasted.
Section 7, Charring of the barrels:
During the charring of the barrels they are being burned from the inside with an open flame. This is done far hotter and shorter than the toasting. And while the toasting goes deep into the wood the charring only burns the very top of the wooden surface.
Re: are whiskey barrels "toasted"
Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:00 am
by squigglefunk
thanks for the replies, it's good to know that some are not toasted like I thought. I knew they did toast the wood for other types of drinks but for whiskey I was not sure. It gives me more little things to play around with...
And does the whiskey see any surface of the wood that is NOT charred? So I should at least be charring all sides of my oak sticks?
Re: are whiskey barrels "toasted"
Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:04 am
by TDick
Stonecutter wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:15 pm
TDick wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:04 pm
squigglefunk wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:28 am
Charring the inside, yes, but does that really toast the wood all the way through?
For what it's worth, I was in Nashville this week. For a liquid lunch, I stopped at Pennington Distillery
About Pennington Distillery
They mentioned they not only use barrels with a heavy char, they are also toasted.
and they gave me a piece of a stave to cut down.
That’s good shit TDick.
Looks like they’re into a bunch of stuff down there. What all did you end up trying?
Not to "corrupt the thread" but a nice benefit of the hobby & learning here is when you know what you know around commercial distillers.No
First thing, VERY nice people.
Tried their 4-6 year Tennessee Whiskey & their "Limited Production" 7 year Birthday Genesis Whiskey.
Their Bourbon is a wheat mashbill. Tried their standard 100 Proof Small Batch & a 110 Proof Single Barrel.
Actually the single barrel was much smoother than the lower proof.
One of the most interesting ideas. They have a "Blending Night".
They had a rack of 8 or 9 barrels and you taste and blend your "personal bottle".
For only $200, you get
A personalized bottle, even engraved with your name on it

.
But they mentioned one of the barrels had very chocolate taste.
(I asked if they used a chocolate malt in the mashbill. No just a result of the char.)
As we were talking about it, she pulled a sample out of the "chocolate" barrel. I don't know how old it was but it was THE BEST thing I tasted.
Re: are whiskey barrels "toasted"
Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 11:49 am
by bluefish_dist
You can buy either toasted or char barrels. When you buy char you choose a #. Usually 3 or 4. 1 is least, 6 is most.
If I remember correctly per the bam, whiskey has to be in a char barrel to be whiskey, except for corn. I could be wrong as it’s been a few years since I have read the bam. That would means you won’t find any that is only done in a toasted barrel.
I did do some rum and tequila in toasted barrels. Gave a different flavor and a lot less color.
Re: are whiskey barrels "toasted"
Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 2:52 pm
by Deplorable
bluefish_dist wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 11:49 am
I did do some rum and tequila in toasted barrels. Gave a different flavor and a lot less color.
I've got some corn on lightly toasted cherry wood. Smells sweet AF and is just yellow. 6 weeks in or so. The jar on raw cherry, is even sweeter smelling, a little darker, but also has an additional month on the toasted pint. Depending on which I decide I like better, I've got a gallon more to age alongside a 5 gallon 2nd fill bourbon barrel with the intent to blend them at the end if the gallon makes it that long.
I've been toasting, then charring my fingers, but I'm not sold on that process just yet. I think I'm going to stop toasting them and just char them looking for the heat of the fire to toast them a little less.
Re: are whiskey barrels "toasted"
Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:59 pm
by rolling
I took a tour of Independent Stave in Lebanon, KY a few years ago. They didn't mention toasting. What I saw was a production where the finished barrel without end caps was stood upright over an intense flame from below. This lasted less than a minute and the flames were shooting out the top by a couple of feet. Lots of fire and smoke.
Re: are whiskey barrels "toasted"
Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2021 5:09 pm
by jasonz02
I was recently looking into this. Some distilleries do, some don’t. Jack Daniels, Makers Mark and Basil Hayden do toast before they char the barrels. Just depends on the company.