Purple Barley?

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tombombadil
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Purple Barley?

Post by tombombadil »

Has anyone tried purple barley? I'm going to pick up 150#s of it soon, wondering if anybody had experience with it?

I don't have a concrete plan yet, maybe try to malt half of it and do an Irish style Whiskey with it?
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Re: Purple Barley?

Post by shadylane »

My first though was treated barely.
But I was wrong, there is such a thing as Purple hulless barley.

I've never heard of anyone malting or brewing with it.
But it sounds like it's worth a try. :thumbup:

https://www.shilohfarms.com/heirloom-hu ... le-barley/
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Re: Purple Barley?

Post by zed255 »

I got rolled barley from Peavey Mart and the resultant mash was purple, really purple. Seems to have made a good whiskey. It made no mention of what variety of barley it was but I was surprised at the colour.
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Re: Purple Barley?

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Re: Purple Barley?

Post by juana_b »

With Spelt maybe? I don't know if you can get your hands on spelt.
keep it old school?
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Re: Purple Barley?

Post by Ben »

I have used a roasted version of it in stout, it was pretty good. 150lbs seems like a lot to "try it out". I would be inclined to just use it as the unmalted section of your Irish whiskey grist, distillers malt for the rest. That will ensure you have enough diastatic power. Is it hulless? If its meant for consumption it may be... find out if you are planning to malt it. Some of the "exotic" barley has a high beta glucan content that makes it tough to malt.
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Re: Purple Barley?

Post by tombombadil »

I finally was able to pick this purple barley stuff up, I got 3 bags, so 150#s.
I picked up some blue corn too, 100#s.

I wasn't planning on picking up the corn, but It was on the pallet right next to the barley so I figured it was a sign from the likker gods.
I'm going to try a few small experiments with the barley.

I think I'll try malting and mashing a couple pounds of it just as a test.
Then maybe try a small batch with enzymes, and maybe one with white wheat malt or 6 row barley malt.
This should keep my busy for a while...
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Re: Purple Barley?

Post by shadylane »

tombombadil wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 11:42 am
I think I'll try malting and mashing a couple pounds of it just as a test.
Then maybe try a small batch with enzymes, and maybe one with white wheat malt or 6 row barley malt.
This should keep my busy for a while...
Keep us updated on the DIY malted purple barley. :thumbup:
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Re: Purple Barley?

Post by tombombadil »

My first try at malting some purple barley failed. It smells pretty funky and roots did not develop, I think I did not drain it enough between steepings, and I definitely steeped it for to long on the last steeping.

It was looking good before the last steeping, one poker starting to develop on all the kernels I inspected closely. I'm in software in the financial industry and stuff was broken so I was on several overnight debugging sprees so I sort of forgot about it lol. It was only one pound.

I'm going to try again shortly. I got some small buckets to use for another small test batch. I'll put one inside the other, the inside bucket will have holes in it so the barley can drain better between steepings. Maybe that will help reduce the chance of funk developing again. I'll set up alarms on my phone so I don't let the steeping go too long. Also, I'm going to weigh some out and put it in a little baggy so I can weigh it and avoid oversteeping it.

I think demy posted about malting once, he mentioned a rinse with a little bleach to reduce the chance of infections? I need to do some searching later and find the article.

If the second try also fails I may decide to just make an 80% raw purple barley 20% 6 row barley whiskey out of it.
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Re: Purple Barley?

Post by tombombadil »

Second attempt at malting seems to have gone pretty well.

I followed SBBs malting guide.

I kilned at 225f for 2 hours, so it's somewhere between 5 and 10 Color wise, 50 and 100 enzymes wise? It tastes and smells like malt candy, whoppers there called? Without the chocolate. Or maybe a malt milkshake. Very malty.

I only did a pound, but I'm going to mash and ferment it to make sure I didn't screw it up.

If the test mash comes out good, I think I'm going to go ahead and malt all of it since it came out so tasty.
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Re: Purple Barley?

Post by shadylane »

tombombadil wrote: Sat Mar 19, 2022 8:42 pm
I only did a pound, but I'm going to mash and ferment it to make sure I didn't screw it up.

If the test mash comes out good, I think I'm going to go ahead and malt all of it since it came out so tasty.
I'd do at a lot more test batches.
And start gathering and building the equipment needed.
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Re: Purple Barley?

Post by tombombadil »

shadylane wrote: Sat Mar 19, 2022 9:37 pm
tombombadil wrote: Sat Mar 19, 2022 8:42 pm
I only did a pound, but I'm going to mash and ferment it to make sure I didn't screw it up.

If the test mash comes out good, I think I'm going to go ahead and malt all of it since it came out so tasty.
I'd do at a lot more test batches.
And start gathering and building the equipment needed.
Ya, good advice.
Mash / fermentation did not go well.
Mash did not get sweet and had much lower than expected gravity.

So probably the starches did not get hydrated enough and there were not enough enzymes to covert the starches that did get hydrated.

I'm wondering if maybe I did not let the germination process proceed as long as I should have.

I started another 1 pound malting test batch.
I'll let the roots get longer this time, and I'll kiln it at lower temperature, maybe that will help.
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Re: Purple Barley?

Post by shadylane »

Careful with the kilning
If the malt isn't dry enough, the heat will kill the enzymes.
Also don't use the root length, measure the acrospire instead.
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Re: Purple Barley?

Post by The Baker »

shadylane wrote: Tue Mar 22, 2022 4:25 pm Careful with the kilning
If the malt isn't dry enough, the heat will kill the enzymes.
Also don't use the root length, measure the acrospire instead.
Haven't malted.
But I sort of thought of the acrospire as actually BEING the root??

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Re: Purple Barley?

Post by shadylane »

The Baker wrote: Tue Mar 22, 2022 5:15 pm
shadylane wrote: Tue Mar 22, 2022 4:25 pm Careful with the kilning
If the malt isn't dry enough, the heat will kill the enzymes.
Also don't use the root length, measure the acrospire instead.
Haven't malted.
But I sort of thought of the acrospire as actually BEING the root??

Geoff
Naw, you got it bassackwards. :lol:

The acrospire is the pointy end that will turn green if given time. :ewink:
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Re: Purple Barley?

Post by The Baker »

Thanks, shadylane.
Of course.
It needs roots AND the stem thingy.

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Re: Purple Barley?

Post by shadylane »

If allowed to, the roots will grow into into a felt-like tangled mass.
That's why it's necessary to turn the malt in order to keep the roots untangled.
That also keeps the moister level and germination rate equal. :ewink:
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Re: Purple Barley?

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The Baker wrote: Wed Mar 23, 2022 12:58 am Thanks, shadylane.
Of course.
It needs roots AND the stem thingy.

Geoff
I guess I thought the roots came later.

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Re: Purple Barley?

Post by shadylane »

First, is the chit on the end of the sprouting grain.
Next roots begin growing from the chit.
Then the acrospire begins growing.

Traditionally, it's best to soak, rinse and drain the grain with cold water.
Once the grains absorbed enough, then raise the malt temp.
That gets most of the kernels off to an even start.
Once upon a time, the soaking and draining cycles were called tides. :ewink:
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Re: Purple Barley?

Post by tombombadil »

Okie dokie.

Third malting/second mash was a little better than first mash, but not a complete success.

I heated it up very slowly so it would spend plenty of time in the beta glucan and protein temp ranges, stopping at 148f and leaving it over night.
It was a lot thinner, and did not thicken over night like the last one did.
It still is not sweet like I would expect a mash to be.
And the gravity is still very low, 1.045.
Maybe it's fully converted but not sweet because of low gravity?
I used to make a lot of low gravity beers, and I do remember the wort still being sweet.
I would expect 1.08, 1.085 if I was using a bourbon type of grain bill.
And I would expect it to be sweet.
A couple thoughts at this point.

1. Maybe it just has a lot less starch than modern barley?
- I'm not sure how to test this. Maybe grind it to a fine flour, boil it, then add some enzymes and check the gravity? Treat it like a Booners corn mash. Surely that should maximize gravity number. If gravity reading is still low after that then I can assume that's as good as it will get.

2. Oats have a very high beta glucan content. Malted oats do not have much diastatic power. I even emailed a maltster a while back and he said they just do not have the ability to have high diastatic power no matter how they're malted. Purple barley also has very high beta glucan content. Maybe malted purple barley is also not going to have high diastatic power no matter how I treat it?
- How to test this? Maybe the experiment from 1 will test both theories? Or maybe I should repeat it with malted purple barley?

I think from here I'm going to experiment with small mashes of the raw purple barley.
Maybe 1 small mash with enzymes, and one small mash with distillers malt.
Grind it to a flour and boil aggressively for both and see where my OG/FG land.

I should mention, the mash does taste and smell very good.
It's like a nutty dopplebock.
Like some kind of nutty pastry desert thing.
Might be great with some honey malt or something like that.
Very nutty and malty.
Regardless of the gravity or enzymatic potential, I have a bunch of it and I'm eager to see how the likker turns out aroma/flavor wise.
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Re: Purple Barley?

Post by shadylane »

To avoid getting thirst, while experimenting with DIY malt.
I'd recommend high temp alpha and gluco enzymes.
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Re: Purple Barley?

Post by Ben »

Enzyme as shady mentioned or supplement with 10-20% distillers malt or pale malt.
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Re: Purple Barley?

Post by tombombadil »

Ya, I'm pretty comfortable with the prepared enzymes or using malt for enzymes, and I have plenty of likker stashed.
I was doing some experiments with this purple barley stuff that I found.

Weird thing is, I did the mini mash, left it over night and it was still soupy like a mash normally is. Then I boiled it and left it overnight again because I got busy. After boiling it and leaving it overnight it absorbed all of the water like a corn mash does. Maybe it was never fully hydrated before? That explains the gravity?

So I'm thinking this stuff is not good candidate for malting. I'll proceed with treating it like corn and see how that goes.
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Re: Purple Barley?

Post by tombombadil »

I did another mash like this:

400g purple barley
100g 6 row barley malt
1300ml water

I ran both through a flour mill.

Mash Process
1. combine water, purple barley and half of the 6 row barley malt
2. heat slowly, stirring, to a boil, let it boil for 5 minutes, kill heat
3. once temp drops to 150f, add the rest of the malt, stir vigorously, wait overnight

In the morning it was still very slimy, like a rye mash, but it was workable.
The gravity is 1.095 - 1.10 and it tastes sweet like I would expect it to.
This is a better outcome.
I added half the 6 row barley malt during the heat up process thinking it might prevent it from becoming so thick it can't be stirred like it did the other times I boiled it.

It was down to about 75f so added some yeast, it looked like it was hydrating normally despite the thickness of the mash so I stirred it in after about an hour.

Now we'll see if it ferments down low or not.
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Re: Purple Barley?

Post by Ben »

Maybe try milling it like you would for beer, I think you will still get max conversion... especially with your long rest time. It will be a lot easier to deal with if you keep the hulls in tact.
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Re: Purple Barley?

Post by tombombadil »

Finally decided to try to mash and ferment this stuff.

46# purple barley (minus 4 pounds from previous experiments)
17# 6 row barley (this is what I had handy)
HT Alpha Amylase
30g water
3 packages Voss kviek dry yeast

So far it's behaving about like rye does.
Very sticky, gooey, thick, absorbing some water.

0. Run both barleys through roller mill twice (keep them separate though)
1. Boil 10g water
2. Add 16# people barley and 1# 6 row barley malt
3. Add 5.75ml ht alpha enzyme
4. Stir vigorously
5. Dump in to fermenter
6. Repeat 3x
7. Wait for temp to drop to 150f
8. Add the rest of the 6 row barley malt
9. Stir vigorously
10. Leave overnight
11. Adjust temp with ice, pitch yeast

Hopefully this works... since I've got anther 100#s of it lol...
If not, maybe I can feed it to the horses?
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Re: Purple Barley?

Post by Ben »

I'm a little confused on your technique, are you trying to bring this up to near boiling for gelatinization? If so its not necessary/desirable for the barley. Its extra work/time and is doing more harm than good. Just mash it like you would normal barley malt, but add enzyme. Sebamyl GL, or bump up your malt contribution to get your Diastatic power in working range.

You never did answer if this is hulless or not, I assume yes. I would add .5oz rice hull per lb of purple to make up for the grain hulls and make things more manageable.
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Re: Purple Barley?

Post by tombombadil »

I don't think the temp charts apply to heirloom grains.
It is hullless.
It does actually grow a hull but they're very thin and light so they fall off and blow away during the harvesting process.

I ended up with 1.065 gravity after adding some ice to get it down to 100f so I could pitch the yeast.

I think I'll call this a success. The mash anyways... I'll update again after I've got some likker from it.
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Re: Purple Barley?

Post by tombombadil »

Finally running this.
The low wines have a bit of a vegetal flavor and aroma.
If you could imagine the thing that's shared by both bell peppers and cucumbers.
Personally, I hate it.
I'm on a mostly carnivore diet, have always thought of plants as the food that my food eats.
I guess we'll see how the spirit run goes.
If that vegetal thing survives the spirit run I may try malting the rest of it.
Or maybe just toasting.
Or turning it all in to Vodka.
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Re: Purple Barley?

Post by Ben »

Spirit run it as usual. Low wines are not a good gauge of what the spirit will turn into.
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