HbPs' double retort potstill build.

[Hillbilly Popstar]

15 gallon boiler with two 5 gallon retorts.
There's a few specifics I aint decided on yet.

But all 3 will have 2" risers, with 1.5" lyne arms that reduce down to 1" steam injectors, all ending up in a 2" shotty. Gonna make some Jamaican RUM! Shooting for something like Hampdens Rum Fire.

Just got the kegs cleaned up and looking pretty. This will motivate me to get some parts ordered soon.

[Hillbilly Popstar]

Had one little casualty so far...

The keg was dented on top so the shoulder in that one spot rolled steeper than the rest and the cutting wheel bit into it. Nothing a welder and a grinder can't fix. I got a buddy who can weld stainless. I'm only proficient at grinding

[Deplorable]

Them sure would be purdy if you took them in and had them soda blasted once all the welding and grinding are done.
Nice job on the curve of the handles.

[Hillbilly Popstar]

Them sure would be purdy if you took them in and had them soda blasted once all the welding and grinding are done.
Nice job on the curve of the handles.

Yeah. Shiny would be real nice.

But I also like that my two small kegs both rep local breweries.

[Yummyrum]

Keen to see how this works out HbPs.
Are those two thumper kegs the same size or is one a bit bigger ? Just curious .

They should be perfect for the job .

Have you had any more thoughts on what you are going to charge each thumper with ?

[Hillbilly Popstar]

Keen to see how this works out HbPs.
Are those two thumper kegs the same size or is one a bit bigger ? Just curious .

They should be perfect for the job .

Have you had any more thoughts on what you are going to charge each thumper with ?

Yes, they are the same size. Ideally, I would liked to have had a 1/2 keg (15gal) > 1/4 Keg (7.75 gal) > skinny keg (5 gal). But considering my big keg was $25 and the other two were free, ya get what ya get and you don't throw a fit....

As for the thumpers.... The plan is follow traditional Jamaician Rum protocol and recycle all tails mixed with dunder into the 1st retort and all heads mixed with dunder into the 2nd retort.
I just started growing a funk bucket a few weeks ago. It's got a nice brown layer of skuzz accross the top now. I am planning on scaling it up to e 30 Gallon wth drain spigot about 1/3rd of the way up. Hopefully it'll be ripe and ready by the time we get warmer weather here in about 2-3 months.

Adding the tails and hearts back into the thumpers seems so counterintuitive. I almost ha e the urge to not do it, but I do love Jamaican/English style rums so much! Gonna give it a go. But of course I will experiment with other things, the sky is the limit! I am super curious about what kind flavors I may find making my regular corn whiskey in the same fashion. Or what if a bourbon were made with the same protocol to promote such esterification? It could make something quite unique and fantastic.

[shadylane]

Damn
Grinding a keg too far there has happened before.
Instead of trying to fix it.
I'd cut the top off for a lid and weld a lip on both the keg and lid as needed for a water seal.
I hear your asking about making a still for rum.
But a keg sized mash/ferment/thumper that can be easily filled and emptied is a valuable tool.
Good enough to have more than one

[Hillbilly Popstar]

Damn
Grinding a keg too far there has happened before.
Instead of trying to fix it.
I'd cut the top off for a lid and weld a lip on both the keg and lid as needed for a water seal.
I hear your asking about making a still for rum.
But a keg sized mash/ferment/thumper that can be easily filled and emptied is a valuable tool.
Good enough to have more than one

The plan is to add a 6" triclamp ferrule to the top of each keg.

[shadylane]

Damn
Grinding a keg too far there has happened before.
Instead of trying to fix it.
I'd cut the top off for a lid and weld a lip on both the keg and lid as needed for a water seal.
I hear your asking about making a still for rum.
But a keg sized mash/ferment/thumper that can be easily filled and emptied is a valuable tool.
Good enough to have more than one

The plan is to add a 6" triclamp ferrule to the top of each keg.

I'm thinking a 6" ferrule would be oversized for a rum thumper.
There isn't a need for a hole large enough to get a hand inside for any possible cleaning.
For what you need, I'd use the 2" on top the keg for vapor in and out and add a 1" drain.

[Hillbilly Popstar]

Damn
Grinding a keg too far there has happened before.
Instead of trying to fix it.
I'd cut the top off for a lid and weld a lip on both the keg and lid as needed for a water seal.
I hear your asking about making a still for rum.
But a keg sized mash/ferment/thumper that can be easily filled and emptied is a valuable tool.
Good enough to have more than one

The plan is to add a 6" triclamp ferrule to the top of each keg.

That should be plenty big for rum thumper.
I'm thinking a 5" ferrule might be cheaper and still large enough to get a hand inside for any possible cleaning.

I wanna do a 6" on top of each thumper with 6"-2" bowl reducers. Then I plan to leave the 2" neck on the big boiler and install the 6" ferrule on the shoulder. I'd like to go with an 8" on the boiler, but I might buy a diamond tipped holesaw to make the holes, so if they are all the same size, it saves me some money. Plus everything remains more modular as well.

[Danespirit]

Looks good.
People that claim they never made a mistake, are the people that don't get anything done.
Hands in the pockets can do nothing wrong.
I'm keen to see the end result of your build.

[jog666]

Badass!!

Keep the pictures coming and let us know how it runs.

[Twisted Brick]

Looking good, (hill)Billy-Ray! Love those curved handles on the red keg.

[Hillbilly Popstar]

I appreciate the props. Means a lot coming from you guys.

I ordered my copper parts today, they should be here next week. All my other stainless/still parts are coming from oak stills, so imagine they will take a few weeks to get here at the very least.

[Hillbilly Popstar]

Parts! Parts! Parts!

I also did a rough mock up to make sure the order was complete. You can also see my new 2" shotgun condenser from Twisted Brick make an appearance here.

[Yummyrum]

Looking good HbPS

[zapata]

The plan is follow traditional Jamaician Rum protocol and recycle all tails mixed with dunder into the 1st retort and all heads mixed with dunder into the 2nd retort.

My reading indicates that there is enough variability that this isn't especially traditional, and may only be easy to understand. In fact I'm not sure this is even done anywhere and I suspect there is often a terminology confusion. I've seen things phrased like "high wines" or "low wines" not be very clearly defined. Some people seem to think the highs are heads and lows are tails, while others claim heads are simply discarded and highs are what hobbyists would call early tails and lows are late tails. Keeping in mind just how tiny traditional heads cuts are and it makes sense to not bother recycling them. I read one of the producers (apologies for being vague, just speaking off the top of my head, maybe it was Joy Spence?) reference a 1% heads cut that isn't recycled. Seems tiny to us, but also remember that lots of ethyl acetate is a fault in some things but it is prized in Jamaica.

Regarding dunder, it is commonly put in with new wash, not retorts. Worthy Park explicitly does not use it at all now, maybe they did at some point in the centuries before shutting down back in the 60s (?). Muck or flavour (rotten dunder) when used (Appleton and New Yarmouth / Wray and Nephew don't) is often mixed into the boiler (Hampden almost certainly). Do you have a reference specifically acknowledging it being added to a retort? I've read Hampden material that was vague enough that I suspect they might but they seemed to be intentionally vague. Also, Hampden mixes jackfruit in with their dunder FWIW if you're targeting Rum Fire.

I am super curious about what kind flavors I may find making my regular corn whiskey in the same fashion. Or what if a bourbon were made with the same protocol to promote such esterification? It could make something quite unique and fantastic.

My understanding is that thumpers were mostly an American whiskey innovation. They got to Jamaica via the American / British / Jamaican connections. Americans abandoned thumpers first for chamber stills (basically vertical double thumpers that were run semi-continuously) and then modern continuous beer stills of modern bourbon fame (some of which still feed a thumper, some a doubler). Which is to say double retort whiskey was not abandoned for flavor or quality, but rather simply the economy of continuous distillation. I've made whiskey in double retorts and it is quite fine. Leopold Brothers in Colorado have a modern recreation of a chamber still they make rye whiskey in that is quite good and would represent the missing link between thumpers and column stills. West Indies Rum Distillery in Barbados (also former British colony, but now owned by Plantation from France, whoa globalization) has the last known original chamber still which was made in the US for whiskey. So yeah, double thumper whiskey is not new, and is good.
Cheers

[Hillbilly Popstar]

That's curious...
Don't most of the big names in Jamaican RUM distilleries have their own Forsythe still? Correct me if I am wrong, but Forsythe is a Scottish potstill manufacturer. No doubt the Scottish distillation industry is not without British influence, but the style of copper potsills they make indicate to me that rum may actually have more in common with scotch than it would seem upon tasting them.

As far as the use of dunder and high wines vs low wines, there is some good clues in this Hamden interview here.


Also, Boston Apothecary has much suggesting some of your assertions might be wrong.

[Saltbush Bill]

I suspect there is often a terminology confusion. I've seen things phrased like "high wines" or "low wines" not be very clearly defined. Some people seem to think the highs are heads and lows are tails, while others claim heads are simply discarded and highs are what hobbyists would call early tails and lows are late tails.

Agree totally, Its a complete bun fight , the more you read the more confusing it becomes. Seems to depend on what you read, who wrote what , when and where.

[zapata]

That's curious...
Don't most of the big names in Jamaican RUM distilleries have their own Forsythe still? Correct me if I am wrong, but Forsythe is a Scottish potstill manufacturer. No doubt the Scottish distillation industry is not without British influence...

Apologies to any Scott or Brit that might be offended, but I was thinking British as in the UK or really the empire, which obviously includes Scotts. All I was really getting at is the shared distilling technology between early American whiskey and Jamaican rum, but I don't think there was a connection of Americans moving to or owning or working in Jamaican distilleries. That was mediated by the British (empire). Forsythe's is a newer brand than the Jamaican thumping tradition, but it illustrates the point of a Scottish (UK) company making stills for Jamaica, not in the Scottish style but in the style first perfected in America.

FWIW, Hampden has 2(?) Forsythes, a Vendome and a South African stills. Clarendon has a Vendome and an Indian still. Long Pond has 5 Vendomes and a John Dore. Interesting aside, John Dore is what remains of Coffey's company. Worthy Park has a new Forsythe, they don't have any of the old stills from before the 2005 rebuild. Appleton's has 4 (or 5?) I know at least one is Forsythes, I think they all are. So Forsythes does have a small lead on Vendome.

Also, Boston Apothecary has much suggesting some of your assertions might be wrong.

I read BA regularly, I think he's one of the most unique voices in the spirits world. Please share what you think might be wrong, knowing stuff is cool, refining it is better.

[Hillbilly Popstar]

Well I'd really not like my build thread to be reduced to a discussing/debate about the methods and terminology of rum distillation.

Also, I'll admit that I am pretty new to BA and only recently begun reading, but between BA, various Jamaican distiller interviews, I formation on this forum, and a very interesting Rumcast channel I've found on YouTube, it's pretty clear to me that live dunder is used for everything from infecting ferments, to esterification by mixing with ETOH, all the way to fertilizing their cane fields. Also, the double retort potstill seems pretty standard in highly respected Caribbean rum labels. I mean they put the pictures of the stills on the labels of Hampden and Worthy Park.

It seems to me you claimed that they dont use dunder much elsewhere besides fermentation and that the double retort still isn't used very commonly to make Jamaican style rums. The later of which is a really shitty thing to say on my build thread of one such still that is nearly completed. In fact, one could interpret your post as not one presenting helpful information, but rather an attempt to just rob me of any joy I may derive from building something I have spent a lot of time researching, designing and building.

Am I misunderstanding your communications?

[zapata]

Am I misunderstanding your communications?

1000% Perhaps re-read what I said from the perspective that I am a rum enthusiast, a Jamaican rum enthusiast, a rum making enthusiast, and a double retort rum making enthusiast. But I won't step on your thread any more. My apologies for any offense, best of luck to you.

[Hillbilly Popstar]

Am I misunderstanding your communications?

1000%

Well I have seen many of your posts and I really do have much respect for your expertise.

Please clarify.

[zapata]

I initially posted to suggest that there isn't 1 fixed traditional way of loading retorts or of how to use dunder or muck. Specifically regarding what exactly high and low wines are, and if dunder or muck goes in a retort, with a focus on what I know of Hampden since it's your inspiration. And secondly to support your plan to make whiskies in your awesome new still by sharing that it both worked well for me and has a widespread but often forgotten historical precedent in America.
edit: and I see I did not in fact make it clear, everything I said was regarding double retort pot stills. IMHO they are the defining tradition of Jamaican rum.

[Hillbilly Popstar]

I initially posted to suggest that there isn't 1 fixed traditional way of loading retorts or of how to use dunder or muck. Specifically regarding what exactly high and low wines are, and if dunder or muck goes in a retort, with a focus on what I know of Hampden since it's your inspiration. And secondly to support your plan to make whiskies in your awesome new still by sharing that it both worked well for me and has a widespread but often forgotten historical precedent in America.
edit: and I see I did not in fact make it clear, everything I said was regarding double retort pot stills. IMHO they are the defining tradition of Jamaican rum.

I have had a few drinks tonight, as often is to blame for misunderstandings around here.

I apologize for my misinterpretation. I look forward to learning more about the mater from you in the future.

Cheers mate. Shine on!

[zapata]

All cleared up, cheers. (edit to add, in the meantime I watched the whole interview with the Hampden crew and it was gold. When Peppie and Glenroy started flaunting that bottle of Great House because the owner Christelle hadn't tasted it yet, I lost it. But when she admitted she didn't have a single bottle of their endemic bird series and leaned in to ask for help finding one it almost broke my heart enough to blow a grand on a bottle and a grand on airfare just to take it to her.)
Back to construction, that still won't build itself.

[shadylane]

The build has my attention.

[Hillbilly Popstar]

More updates coming soon

[MereCashmere]

I am PUMPED for this thread to continue. Your steel grinding skills are inspiring; almost looks factory! Cant wait to hear the results of the first run!

Zapata, I see a lot of your comments around here and always learn something from them. Good on both of you for clearing things up so we can all glean some knowledge from either party.

[Hillbilly Popstar]

Ok....

So I thought long and hard about my condenser.

I knew I want a shotty and I really would have liked to build one myself. All the parts to build one (including a set of baffles from Twisted Brick) would have cost me around $180 give or take a dozen bucks... Then, anything I built likely would end up ugly too. There's plenty of 2" shotties available for around $170-200, but they are all stainless and/or shorter like 18".

So I opted to have one built by someone I am familiar with and who has a great reputation. Basically I chose piece of mind and I don't regret it.
Here's a short video showcasing the piece.