Economics of 'going pro'.

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Economics of 'going pro'.

Post by tommysb »

Hypothetically -
If you were forced to try to make a living from your hobby, how would you do it? Imagine you could legally sell what you could produce from your hobby-sized still.

At one (maybe cynical) end of the scale one has the option of buying in NGS, watering it down, and selling 'artisanal vodka'. A step up from that, (and i believe there are many viable businesses which do this), is gin production from NGS, as the output product to effort input is a good ratio, and the demand for craft gin seems very strong.

At the other end, you have something like what many of us do - self malted grains, multiple pot distillations etc. Where if you factored in what you wanted to earn as a decent business, you'd probably need to ask a few hundered dollars/euro/currencies per bottle produced. And maybe the business isn't viable at that level.

Thoughts?
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Re: Economics of 'going pro'.

Post by LWTCS »

It could be viable with a hobby outfit if you didn't give up your day job and didn't expect any sales to support all the overhead associated with above board production / capital expenditures.

Minimum size kettle to generate enough revenue to carry fixed costs associated with doing an above board business: 380L.

Minimum size kettle to generate enough revenue to actually be profitable running an above board business: 1000L.
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Re: Economics of 'going pro'.

Post by tommysb »

It depends a little bit on locale also.

I know of at least one producer in UK who makes a bathtub gin as a single product, and survives off that. Buy NGS, but herbs in, filter, package in a nice bottle and sell for £44.99 (about 50 euro of 60 usd I guess).

Their website claims that they sold 10,000 bottles in 2017 so it's a decent turnover, more than I make in my day job I am sure! On that kind of operation it's also something one could do alongside a day job.
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Re: Economics of 'going pro'.

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tommysb wrote: Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:51 am It depends a little bit on locale also.

I know of at least one producer in UK who makes a bathtub gin as a single product, and survives off that. Buy NGS, but herbs in, filter, package in a nice bottle and sell for £44.99 (about 50 euro of 60 usd I guess).

Their website claims that they sold 10,000 bottles in 2017 so it's a decent turnover, more than I make in my day job I am sure! On that kind of operation it's also something one could do alongside a day job.
Ah true.
The margins on cocktails are quite good. Even better if you can ( legally) produce a half barrel of finished product per run.
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Re: Economics of 'going pro'.

Post by Deplorable »

I couldn't (and wouldn't want to) run a distillery above board. Too much government red tape for me.
The local distillery in town has gotten by selling shitty flavored whiskies much of which was redistilled GNS they purchased and macerated then diluted, re-run, and added coloring for the last several years along with their Barrel Club 5 gallon barrels.
The only thing they make that I actually like is their red winter wheat vodka. Last month, they put out a Blended malt whiskey that had less than 20% of their own product in it. It was just okay. They still haven't released a bourbon, and the local town folk are growing increasingly disappointed in what they are putting out.

I'd rather keep doing what Im doing. Making things I like to drink and share.
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Re: Economics of 'going pro'.

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Deplorable wrote: Sun Mar 13, 2022 12:22 pm I couldn't (and wouldn't want to) run a distillery above board. Too much government red tape for me.
The local distillery in town has gotten by selling shitty flavored whiskies much of which was redistilled GNS they purchased and macerated then diluted, re-run, and added coloring for the last several years along with their Barrel Club 5 gallon barrels.
The only thing they make that I actually like is their red winter wheat vodka. Last month, they put out a Blended malt whiskey that had less than 20% of their own product in it. It was just okay. They still haven't released a bourbon, and the local town folk are growing increasingly disappointed in what they are putting out.

I'd rather keep doing what Im doing. Making things I like to drink and share.

IMO, one of the biggest mistakes a new distillery can make is waiting to implement the barrel aging program.
Gotta lay those barrels down as fast as possible.

The whiskey doesn't age itself.
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Re: Economics of 'going pro'.

Post by HDNB »

man that's too bad. it's better to put out nothing than the put out shite. once people think it's crap, it;'s crap forever, even if they do eventually hit one out of the park.
a quality voddy/ gin/ RTD/ moonshine has a market for startups to pay some bills, but if they are going to call it whiskey and charge 60 bucks for it, it needs to have at least 59.95 in quality in it or they won't last long...the phrase that has been used around here is you "have to win your backyard" or there is no surviving...once the locals are off it, may as well close up shop and head the next county over.
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Re: Economics of 'going pro'.

Post by BrewinBrian44 »

Some friends of mine operate a very successful craft brewery and bit the bullet and bought a decently large still that can operate as a plated setup as well as a pot still, all copper. Not sure the exact volume, but it’s big enough to get them enough product to start off in the craft spirits business. It actually helped them survive the pandemic by making hand sanitizer for the local municipalities. When tap rooms are forcibly closed, there’s lots of old beer to distill.

This isn’t a happy story though… the only thing remotely profitable they can produce is vodka made from old beer, that’s carbon filtered to remove the flavor from the hops. I’ve tried it and it’s actually quite good! I asked them if they were going to start making whiskey or all grain vodkas and they said the numbers simply aren’t there. He said it’s actually cheaper to buy pre-made spirit, either re-distilling or re-branding it. Apparently the raw ingredients are not economical if your goal is profitability around these parts.

I asked if the pre-made vodka is just raw NGS and he said it’s actually a premium level vodka. Sad.
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Re: Economics of 'going pro'.

Post by Hillbilly Popstar »

Dumb question here...

Is NGS, Neutral Grain Spirits?
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Re: Economics of 'going pro'.

Post by tommysb »

BrewinBrian44 wrote: Sun Mar 13, 2022 3:00 pm He said it’s actually cheaper to buy pre-made spirit, either re-distilling or re-branding it. Apparently the raw ingredients are not economical if your goal is profitability around these parts.
I am not at all surprised by this. I suppose the question becomes, is there enough consumer demand for something made in small batch?

One producer who seem to do smaller, more niche/experimental stuff are Empirical Spirits in Copenhagen, but they're based in an extremely wealthy city with a very progressive food culture. Not sure of their still sizes, output volumes etc though.
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Re: Economics of 'going pro'.

Post by seamusm53 »

Packaging or re-packaging commercially available spirits such as raw liquor and then flavoring or ageing it oneself is a tried and true path to a commercial product. But while going that route will save some of the money of production, it will not save any of the significant expense of marketing and distribution. From what I have read here that is the bulk of expense not actually production, anyway.
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Re: Economics of 'going pro'.

Post by BrewinBrian44 »

seamusm53 wrote: Sun Mar 13, 2022 3:29 pm Packaging or re-packaging commercially available spirits such as raw liquor and then flavoring or ageing it oneself is a tried and true path to a commercial product. But while going that route will save some of the money of production, it will not save any of the significant expense of marketing and distribution. From what I have read here that is the bulk of expense not actually production, anyway.
It seems to be the craft distillery business model these days.

Honestly, this is a tough business to get into unless you have major backing up front with patient investors. I’ve noticed the prices for these craft spirits at the liquor store are almost double the price of a regular commercial whiskey… and they taste worse. Most of it is either over-oaked due to quick aging or a bit thin because they don’t have the time to mellow a wider cut. Seems the big boys in Kentucky have permanently cemented themselves in the business. They have the scale to make their product affordable and properly aged.
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Re: Economics of 'going pro'.

Post by Hillbilly Popstar »

BrewinBrian44 wrote: Sun Mar 13, 2022 3:51 pm
seamusm53 wrote: Sun Mar 13, 2022 3:29 pm Packaging or re-packaging commercially available spirits such as raw liquor and then flavoring or ageing it oneself is a tried and true path to a commercial product. But while going that route will save some of the money of production, it will not save any of the significant expense of marketing and distribution. From what I have read here that is the bulk of expense not actually production, anyway.
It seems to be the craft distillery business model these days.

Honestly, this is a tough business to get into unless you have major backing up front with patient investors. I’ve noticed the prices for these craft spirits at the liquor store are almost double the price of a regular commercial whiskey… and they taste worse. Most of it is either over-oaked due to quick aging or a bit thin because they don’t have the time to mellow a wider cut. Seems the big boys in Kentucky have permanently cemented themselves in the business. They have the scale to make their product affordable and properly aged.
Yet the "big boys" still taste like shit.
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Re: Economics of 'going pro'.

Post by BrewinBrian44 »

Hillbilly Popstar wrote: Sun Mar 13, 2022 4:36 pm
BrewinBrian44 wrote: Sun Mar 13, 2022 3:51 pm
seamusm53 wrote: Sun Mar 13, 2022 3:29 pm Packaging or re-packaging commercially available spirits such as raw liquor and then flavoring or ageing it oneself is a tried and true path to a commercial product. But while going that route will save some of the money of production, it will not save any of the significant expense of marketing and distribution. From what I have read here that is the bulk of expense not actually production, anyway.
It seems to be the craft distillery business model these days.

Honestly, this is a tough business to get into unless you have major backing up front with patient investors. I’ve noticed the prices for these craft spirits at the liquor store are almost double the price of a regular commercial whiskey… and they taste worse. Most of it is either over-oaked due to quick aging or a bit thin because they don’t have the time to mellow a wider cut. Seems the big boys in Kentucky have permanently cemented themselves in the business. They have the scale to make their product affordable and properly aged.
Yet the "big boys" still taste like shit.
I enjoy quite a bit of the commercial stuff, compared to a lot of the craft selection, it’s still better in my opinion. Sure there’s some bad commercial examples, but also great stuff.
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Re: Economics of 'going pro'.

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Hillbilly Popstar wrote: Sun Mar 13, 2022 3:22 pm Dumb question here...

Is NGS, Neutral Grain Spirits?
Yes.
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Re: Economics of 'going pro'.

Post by NormandieStill »

I've been giving this some thought for a while. Not scaling to a full commercial operation which could support employees, but as a side-project to bring in a little cash and be at the very least self-funding (I prefer bootstrapping businesses over large loans). In the short term output would have to be neutral-based spirits, because even I had ageing stock, I can't declare it before having a licence, so gin and liqueurs. There's a small market for that locally, not enough to sustain a large distillery, but perhaps enough to keep some money trickling in. That trickle would have to at the least fund the raw materials for building up a large ageing stock.

I'm lucky enough to have a network of local farm shops which sell direct, and via each other, so local distribution wouldn't be an issue. But if you want to go beyond word of mouth to even regional sales, then it's all about the marketing, and that gets complicated and expensive fast.

I've watched more than a few of the whisky tribe videos and seen their distillery tours, and it's when you see the rickhouses that you realise the scale issue. It's fun to think about, but scaling up beyond simple local distribution would have to require a large capital outlay if only for the storage space. I'm a carpenter and could build a small warehouse at cost, but that cost is still going to be significant.

And if you don't scale, you're limited to very small batch releases (rather than say, a consistent product) which wouldn't necessarily be sustained by a local market. And then you need to count your hours. As a small business I finally managed to price my day rate at a level which realistically covers my costs. The raw material costs and even electricity, per bottle of whisky are relatively low (I did the maths for my production), but if you factor in the time spent doing it (not waiting for fermentations to finish, just stilling time) even at minimum wage, that product starts to get pricey.

The economics are going to depend massively on the local market. And while they might work out for the first to market, it's not sure that the market could support multiple distilleries, so you have to have a plan for what to do if a competitor steps in.

I may well do it in a year or so, depending on the situation at the time, but I'll be under no illusions that I'm going to create a new major player and the factors that mean that it could work for me at a certain level, don't necessarily mean that it would work elsewhere, or at a larger scale.
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Re: Economics of 'going pro'.

Post by Hillbilly Popstar »

BrewinBrian44 wrote: Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:51 pm
Hillbilly Popstar wrote: Sun Mar 13, 2022 4:36 pm
BrewinBrian44 wrote: Sun Mar 13, 2022 3:51 pm
seamusm53 wrote: Sun Mar 13, 2022 3:29 pm Packaging or re-packaging commercially available spirits such as raw liquor and then flavoring or ageing it oneself is a tried and true path to a commercial product. But while going that route will save some of the money of production, it will not save any of the significant expense of marketing and distribution. From what I have read here that is the bulk of expense not actually production, anyway.
It seems to be the craft distillery business model these days.

Honestly, this is a tough business to get into unless you have major backing up front with patient investors. I’ve noticed the prices for these craft spirits at the liquor store are almost double the price of a regular commercial whiskey… and they taste worse. Most of it is either over-oaked due to quick aging or a bit thin because they don’t have the time to mellow a wider cut. Seems the big boys in Kentucky have permanently cemented themselves in the business. They have the scale to make their product affordable and properly aged.
Yet the "big boys" still taste like shit.
I enjoy quite a bit of the commercial stuff, compared to a lot of the craft selection, it’s still better in my opinion. Sure there’s some bad commercial examples, but also great stuff.
Us hobby distillers are the craft sector. Sure there some craft brands out there that are total shite. But half the boys (and a few gals too) on this forum are producing drop that blows nearly all the big brands out of the water.

Take Elijah Craig single barrel for instance. That stuff is quite well respected amongst bourbon aficionados. I dont think its that good. Not only is it not that good, every time I drink the stuff my skull splits in half. This tells me they are making lose cuts. I actually suspect that a lot of single barrel and overproof bourbon products (like Jim Beam Devils Cut) are made with less discerning cuts in order to make up for the economic loss of not tempering their products down to 80 proof. But that's another topic entirely.

Another example is Blantons. Blanton is not terrible, but UT has got to be the single most overhyped, overpriced, and over rated bourbon on the market today. It's may come in 2nd to Pappy Van Winkle, but seeing as how I've never tasted the stuff, I can't speak on it.

And let's not even talk about the stuff all the "big boys" are marketing as moonshine. It's all trash. I've yet to have a decent bottle of straight corn whiskey from the store to this day. Not compared to the stuff I make...
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Re: Economics of 'going pro'.

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NormandieStill wrote: Sun Mar 13, 2022 11:47 pm And if you don't scale, you're limited to very small batch releases (rather than say, a consistent product) which wouldn't necessarily be sustained by a local market.
I wonder if a small craft distillery could benefit more quickly from a Solara aging system. That way you can make several small batch runs and blend them together for a product that is much more consistent overall.
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Re: Economics of 'going pro'.

Post by Saltbush Bill »

The few craft distillery's here in Australia that Ive seen see success and keep on running profitably have stayed small, family run or just a couple of employees. They mostly seem to follow similar paths and make a range of premium small batch products that they sell for premium prices,"think $90-$220 for a 700ml bottle". The smart ones seem to get get Whiskys and Rums into barrels as quickly as they can to start aging while they survive on the money coming in from Gin , Vodka and various Liquors that are made from GNS thats bought in, in bulk from outside sources.
A lot of the fellas here running those distilleries learned the craft on this and other forums then bit the bullet and went for it. Not sure what the survival rate is , but many that I can think of are still in business and some are doing very very well.
I can think of at least a couple who came into this hobby as raw newbies and knew nothing,,,,they had a dream, they learned ,and they made it happen.
There are also a few exceptions who are really kicking arse world wide with their products, some of our Tasmanian Distilleries are winning some pretty big awards with their Scotch style Whiskeys. Many of those only kicked off in the past 12 or so years.
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Re: Economics of 'going pro'.

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Hillbilly Popstar wrote: Mon Mar 14, 2022 12:09 am I wonder if a small craft distillery could benefit more quickly from a Solara aging system. That way you can make several small batch runs and blend them together for a product that is much more consistent overall.
An interesting idea. You could make a "standard" product which is solara aged for (relative) consistency, and maintain some special releases.

Edit to add: There's another consideration which doesn't fall strictly into economics but is worth bearing in mind. Let's imagine that you manage to carve out a niche market with your gin and a couple of liqueurs. You base them on imported NGS because you want to spend your time crafting whisky rather than churning out neutral. Your years in the hobby have allowed to develop a recipe that you and your friends like and that you think is marketable, and now you need to build up some stock.

You're going to have to put in the time, and you won't be playing around or experimenting here. Perhaps starting a new ferment every other day for a week. Then a day of back-to-back stripping, restart the ferment (can't leave a vat empty!), spirit run. Strips. Ferment. Spirit run. Strips... take a day off whisky to make a batch of gin or liqueur. Then back at it. How long will it remain fun?

I've done this before with a different pastime. I went from working as a volunteer at a university venue (where I definitely put in the hours) to working professionally in a local venue. The routine can quickly kill the creative interest that you had in the first place.

So in addition to straightening out the economics, ensure that your business plan includes the stuff that made this hobby fun in the first place. Otherwise you might as well grind in a 9-5 for someone else (who's taking the financial risks for you) and spend your salary on making cool taste experiments at home. :D
Last edited by NormandieStill on Mon Mar 14, 2022 2:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Economics of 'going pro'.

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Hillbilly Popstar wrote: Sun Mar 13, 2022 11:55 pm
Us hobby distillers are the craft sector. Sure there some craft brands out there that are total shite. But half the boys (and a few gals too) on this forum are producing drop that blows nearly all the big brands out of the water.

Take Elijah Craig single barrel for instance. That stuff is quite well respected amongst bourbon aficionados. I dont think its that good. Not only is it not that good, every time I drink the stuff my skull splits in half. This tells me they are making lose cuts. I actually suspect that a lot of single barrel and overproof bourbon products (like Jim Beam Devils Cut) are made with less discerning cuts in order to make up for the economic loss of not tempering their products down to 80 proof. But that's another topic entirely.

Another example is Blantons. Blanton is not terrible, but UT has got to be the single most overhyped, overpriced, and over rated bourbon on the market today. It's may come in 2nd to Pappy Van Winkle, but seeing as how I've never tasted the stuff, I can't speak on it.

And let's not even talk about the stuff all the "big boys" are marketing as moonshine. It's all trash. I've yet to have a decent bottle of straight corn whiskey from the store to this day. Not compared to the stuff I make...
So this raises the question - IS there a market for stuff that's as good as we can make? And pay the premium?
Saltbush Bill wrote: Mon Mar 14, 2022 1:22 am The few craft distillery's here in Australia that Ive seen see success and keep on running profitably have stayed small, family run or just a couple of employees. They mostly seem to follow similar paths and make a range of premium small batch products that they sell for premium prices,"think $90-$220 for a 700ml bottle".
This seems to suggest that there is.
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Re: Economics of 'going pro'.

Post by tommysb »

I suspect that the market IS quite different in US, Europe and (e.g.) Australia, too.
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Re: Economics of 'going pro'.

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tommysb wrote: Mon Mar 14, 2022 2:12 am
So this raises the question - IS there a market for stuff that's as good as we can make? And pay the premium?
Saltbush Bill wrote: Mon Mar 14, 2022 1:22 am The few craft distillery's here in Australia that Ive seen see success and keep on running profitably have stayed small, family run or just a couple of employees. They mostly seem to follow similar paths and make a range of premium small batch products that they sell for premium prices,"think $90-$220 for a 700ml bottle".
This seems to suggest that there is.
There is. But do you have access to it?

I live relatively close to Paris in a region where lots of Parisians have second homes. And close to a large city with some fairly well-off surburbs. I have a vague idea of where to go to catch some of the Parisians, so I'd have to talk my products into a few boutiques nearby. But cracking Rouen and the suburbs would involve a lot of loitering and various caves to see who goes in, and then convincing the owners to put a few bottles on display. If you can worm your way onto a larger distribution network you might make it, but then we're back to marketing.

An acquaintance from the world of photography (another hobby) who had gone professional and was by all accounts pretty successful, once remarked that on a good day, the "fun" parts of photography (shooting, selecting images, editing) would account for maybe 15% of his time. The other 85% was marketing and accounting.
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Re: Economics of 'going pro'.hat

Post by Yummyrum »

My opinion .
I’m a middle class . i can afford to but the occasional bottle of spirits from a bottle store but it’s cheap commercial stuff . I look at those “fancy” offerings and I just can’t afford them .

So the average Joe blow quaffer isn’t going to by a bottle of fancy when he can get two or three big producer commercial bottles for the same price . That means a local market aimed at a bottle or two a week from the family pisspots , isn’t going to be your customer base .

That leaves the wealthy who can afford the fancy stuff and then they have the money to pick and choose .

And as we know the wealthy are less in number than the middle class . Less of them with the option to spend where they choose .

Now taste buds are funny things . My Sister in law will spend $90 on a bottle of gin that I think is …. Well … expensive and I don’t like it that much .

Interestedly , she says the only other Gin she can drink is mine because the rest give her a hangover .
Now I just use good old Still spirits Lindon Gin essence :oops: …. but it seems its not the flavour that matters but the base spirit quality.
Something else to consider when hitting the high end with a large dollar sign attached .

On this same point , the guys that she buys her gin off ( ordered direct and send via mail) make their own Neutral spirit … dare I say from good old Tomato paste wash …. Huge big IBC’s full if it in a special temp controlled room
( you probably know who I’m talking about Salty )

So they can do good cuts in their base spirit . Something that GNS buyers can’t .

And I’ll add , the guy that runs that distillery , he’s not living in a mansion , or driving a flash car . He makes an average living like me and employs a few friends and family . I think his roof is as rusty as mine and his car as old .
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Re: Economics of 'going pro'.

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Yummyrum wrote: Mon Mar 14, 2022 2:41 am On this same point , the guys that she buys her gin off ( ordered direct and send via mail) make their own Neutral spirit … dare I say from good old Tomato paste wash …. Huge big IBC’s full if it in a special temp controlled room
( you probably know who I’m talking about Salty )
I know exactly Yummy and it makes me LMAO....Ive been there and had the personal guided tour, seen the IBCs...consumers are often clueless and will fall for marketing hype.
That guy has been making gin using TPW as a base for years and winning awards in Europe and America from memory......I wouldn't make my Gin with TPW if I was payed to do so......as much as I hate to say it , its worked its way to the bottom of the list of neutral washes IMO......got me beat why people still recommend it to newbs.
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Re: Economics of 'going pro'.

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Saltbush Bill wrote: Mon Mar 14, 2022 3:16 am
Yummyrum wrote: Mon Mar 14, 2022 2:41 am On this same point , the guys that she buys her gin off ( ordered direct and send via mail) make their own Neutral spirit … dare I say from good old Tomato paste wash …. Huge big IBC’s full if it in a special temp controlled room
( you probably know who I’m talking about Salty )
I know exactly Yummy and it makes me LMAO....Ive been there and had the personal guided tour, seen the IBCs...consumers are often clueless and will fall for marketing hype.
That guy has been making gin using TPW as a base for years and winning awards in Europe and America from memory......I wouldn't make my Gin with TPW if I was payed to do so......as much as I hate to say it , its worked its way to the bottom of the list of neutral washes IMO......got me beat why people still recommend it to newbs.
I think it's well-known, dead simple, not finnicky, and doesn't require items that might involve a trip to a homebrew shop. You likely have everything you need already which (as a recent newbie) is reassuring. My first gins were made from a batch of pot-stilled TPW. There's just no comparison to the refluxed AG neutral I just made, but I might not have dared play with sugar washes if I'd had to source DAP and magnesium sulfate and the right type of vitamins before starting out. :wink:

There is a price tag issue which is that up to a certain level, people will "taste" the price. If you price your product as an affordable sipper, you might move more product, but if you price it as "high-class but not too high", you can ask for more money for the same volume. It'll not be the same people buying it mind and there's a balancing act to play between low-price high volume and high-price low-volume that would need exploring by someone way more ruthless than I am.
"I have a potstill that smears like a fresh plowed coon on the highway" - Jimbo

A little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers
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Saltbush Bill
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Re: Economics of 'going pro'.

Post by Saltbush Bill »

NormandieStill wrote: Mon Mar 14, 2022 3:31 am I think it's well-known, dead simple, not finnicky, and doesn't require items that might involve a trip to a homebrew shop. You likely have everything you need already which (as a recent newbie) is reassuring.
I'll just add that it will piss all over any thing made with a Turbo yeast......it was a wash developed early in this hobby to get away from those types of things. As you say its dead easy, and doesn't require a trip to the local home brew shop.......which is something most members here try to avoid like the plague.
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Hillbilly Popstar
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Re: Economics of 'going pro'.

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Lately I have been considering the possibility of running a pub, but rather than then distilling spirits to sell on store shelves have your pub only serve cocktails made with your own spirits. The still can even be a showpiece for customers to look at when they come to drink. Obviously you wouldn't be able to run the still During business hours there would be a lot of other red tape to figure out but it seems it could be a decent business model.
"Making likker with a hydrometer and thermometer is like measuring the length of a 2x4 with a clock"
BrewinBrian44
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Re: Economics of 'going pro'.

Post by BrewinBrian44 »

Hillbilly Popstar wrote: Mon Mar 14, 2022 3:54 am Lately I have been considering the possibility of running a pub, but rather than then distilling spirits to sell on store shelves have your pub only serve cocktails made with your own spirits. The still can even be a showpiece for customers to look at when they come to drink. Obviously you wouldn't be able to run the still During business hours there would be a lot of other red tape to figure out but it seems it could be a decent business model.
It’s a great business model and becoming more common for distilleries these days. It’s essentially the same thing as having a tap room at your brewery.
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Ben
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Re: Economics of 'going pro'.

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In Colorado at least you would start a Brewpub, if you can get a cook to make a decent burger the food sales keep the lights on. Beer profit allows you to build up equipment stock until you can afford at least a 14 bbl fermenter, bright tank and still, and staff to keep it running every 60 hours. Then start stacking barrels, and buying from someone like MGW to put under your own label. The brewpub sustains you while you are waiting on stock to age and build up.

Another option is to move to Mexico where labor and grain is cheap, taxation on exports is less and export directly to the US, making no domestic sale product. This gets you around a lot of the convoluted US liquor laws, and gets you a ton of tax advantages.

At my hobby scale, with a 15 gallon still and 150 gallons of fermenter space I couldn't hardly cover the cost of fuel to go buy grain, let alone labor. I would have to be running the still while mashing, mashing in my sleep, and coopering my own barrels when the still wasn't running. it would be a very busy, hard life to live on Ramen.
:)
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