Help With Design

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Salt Must Flow
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Re: Help With Design

Post by Salt Must Flow »

bunny wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 7:46 am
A growing number of individuals are no longer equalizing their neutral packed columns.
I'm one of them.
Do you mean you no longer do lengthy periods of equalizing or you do not equalize literally at all?

I equalize, but maybe for 10 min or so, longer if I forget, but I don't set a timer. I watch the vapor temp and wait for it to stabilize and remain stabilized for a little while before collecting anything.
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Re: Help With Design

Post by bunny »

Salt Must Flow wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 8:28 am
bunny wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 7:46 am
A growing number of individuals are no longer equalizing their neutral packed columns.
I'm one of them.
Do you mean you no longer do lengthy periods of equalizing or you do not equalize literally at all?

I equalize, but maybe for 10 min or so, longer if I forget, but I don't set a timer. I watch the vapor temp and wait for it to stabilize and remain stabilized for a little while before collecting anything.
Zip, Squat, Nada!
I'm taking off fores & heads at 200ml/hour for 8 hours.
My column heats up slowly and is practically stable when the vapor first hits the condenser.
My RR at this time is over 20-1 (200 vs 4300) with a lot of reflux heading back down the column.
Granted my bottom thermometer has not yet come down from it's high but will soon enough.
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Re: Help With Design

Post by Salt Must Flow »

bunny wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 9:02 am
Salt Must Flow wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 8:28 am
bunny wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 7:46 am
A growing number of individuals are no longer equalizing their neutral packed columns.
I'm one of them.
Do you mean you no longer do lengthy periods of equalizing or you do not equalize literally at all?

I equalize, but maybe for 10 min or so, longer if I forget, but I don't set a timer. I watch the vapor temp and wait for it to stabilize and remain stabilized for a little while before collecting anything.
Zip, Squat, Nada!
I'm taking off fores & heads at 200ml/hour for 8 hours.
My column heats up slowly and is practically stable when the vapor first hits the condenser.
My RR at this time is over 20-1 (200 vs 4300) with a lot of reflux heading back down the column.
Granted my bottom thermometer has not yet come down from it's high but will soon enough.
Got it. Sorry, I didn't take the time to understand what you wrote before I asked.
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Re: Help With Design

Post by Hebden »

bunny wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 7:46 am Now, if you don't mind, I have a few questions:
Whose spp are you using?
https://destylatorymiedziane.pl/en/acce ... &results=7
(it turned up very clean)
bunny wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 7:46 am Now, if you don't mind, I have a few questions:
How much did you buy?
6 Litres
bunny wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 7:46 am Now, if you don't mind, I have a few questions:
How many inches spp in your column?
49"
bunny wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 7:46 am Now, if you don't mind, I have a few questions:
What are the size specs on your spp?
SPP material: stainless wire 1.4307
specific weight: 700-800 g/dm3
spiral length: 3.8-4.2mm
spiral width: 4-4.2mm
wire diameter: 0.25mm
maximum heating load: 110-130 W/cm2
HETP : 20-25mm (depending on reflux ratio and heating power)
P/V parameter: 1.7-1.9 m2/1dm3
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Re: Help With Design

Post by Hebden »

I have looked around this site and google for a good guide on how to run my reflux column, what I found didn't have the take off valve which I have.

Top of my column, above the RC has a 16mm hole for safety
I am running a 3" column @ 1500mm before take-off tee
(1250mm SPP - 75mm mesh support above and below)
1.5" gate valve
50L boiler with 5500w internal electric element
Colossal shotgun


When I run, these are the steps I intend to follow next week, if anything looks dangerous or incorrect please let me know, otherwise I shall have a go and find my feet:-
  • Jars ready, numbered and enough to collect more than enough by far to collect all my product
  • Test water flows for leaks
  • Charge my 50L boiler with ~32L of 32%abv low wines
  • Close the take-off valve
  • Heat at 5500w until base of column warms and then some rise of column temp
    (watching temp before take-off tee for a rise in temp)
  • Start reflux condenser @100%
  • Start shotgun
  • As soon as I see temp within my take-off tee thermometer - I will reduce power to 3000w
  • Full reflux for 20 minutes
  • Open gate valve x full turns (to be decided)
  • If no product arrives, I will slowly decrease reflux until I see product drops (noting delayed responce time)
I have seen one post where there was a mirror placed above the column safety vent, good idea, I may upturn a shot glass to detect vapour and have a couple spare and dry.

Outside of the above, I will play around with settings for speed and flow, I will probably make a hash of it, but if there is anything absolutely wrong, please let me know.
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Re: Help With Design

Post by bunny »

Hebden wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 8:45 am I have looked around this site and google for a good guide on how to run my reflux column, what I found didn't have the take off valve which I have.

Top of my column, above the RC has a 16mm hole for safety
I am running a 3" column @ 1500mm before take-off tee
(1250mm SPP - 75mm mesh support above and below)
1.5" gate valve
50L boiler with 5500w internal electric element
Colossal shotgun


When I run, these are the steps I intend to follow next week, if anything looks dangerous or incorrect please let me know, otherwise I shall have a go and find my feet:-
  • Jars ready, numbered and enough to collect more than enough by far to collect all my product
  • Test water flows for leaks
  • Charge my 50L boiler with ~32L of 32%abv low wines
  • Close the take-off valve
  • Heat at 5500w until base of column warms and then some rise of column temp
    (watching temp before take-off tee for a rise in temp)
  • Start reflux condenser @100%
  • Start shotgun
  • As soon as I see temp within my take-off tee thermometer - I will reduce power to 3000w
  • Full reflux for 20 minutes
  • Open gate valve x full turns (to be decided)
  • If no product arrives, I will slowly decrease reflux until I see product drops (noting delayed responce time)
I have seen one post where there was a mirror placed above the column safety vent, good idea, I may upturn a shot glass to detect vapour and have a couple spare and dry.

Outside of the above, I will play around with settings for speed and flow, I will probably make a hash of it, but if there is anything absolutely wrong, please let me know.
I think we should just let you take a go of it.
Take good notes and be sure your RC can knock down 3000w.
Only one thing on your list is pretty far off imho is the last one. Your valve is supposed to help you split the vapor amount being refluxed and the vapor amount being taken. Don't mess with the RC, just open or close the valve as necessary.
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Re: Help With Design

Post by Salt Must Flow »

This is how I've been doing it. I've made changes to the process over time and you probably will too.

1. Set up the still, connect water lines, get water flowing (check for leaks), close gate valve and close all water lines.
2. Heat boiler at 100% power 5500W until the base of the column (maybe 1' up) starts to get hot. I set alarm for 100F which is an arbitrary figure. The boiler will be above 180F before this happens.
3. Immediately reduce power to 50% (2750W) and turn the water on for the reflux condenser. I move temp probe to the vapor takeoff.
4. I set an alarm for 120F in the vapor takeoff just so I know that vapor reached the top and reflux has begun.
5. I equalize the column at full reflux for maybe 10 min or so. Keep an eye on the temp and you will see the temp equalize before your eyes.
6. Once you're ready to start taking off foreshots, open water for your shotgun condenser, crack your gate valve open just a little bit (learn YOUR valve). My 1" gate valve is 3 full turns 0.58 lph, approx 3 drips or so per second. I'm sure I could probably take off faster, but I'm not in a hurry. You'll see the vapor temp start to rise as you take off, perfectly normal.
7. After a few jars are full and the Acetone smell appears to be gone I crack the gate valve open a just a little bit more 3-1/2 to 4 turns. Continue taking off until you think you're out of heads and definitely into hearts. You'll learn this with experience. Watch the vapor temp and you'll likely find that it will remain this temp all the way until the end.
8. Once I know I'm into hearts that's when I can let her rip. I open the gate valve 6 full turns (3.2 lph). You will likely have to feed a bit more water to your shotgun condenser because you'll be knocking down much more hot vapor.
9. Watch the vapor takeoff temp, collect in smaller jars near the end and once the temp starts to jump up two or three 1/10th degree you know tails is coming. You can restabalize if you want to compress tails, but more often I do not. I open the gate valve 100% and start raising power incrementally over time until I reach 100% power. You may have to increase flow to your condensers as the water will increase in temp. I keep collecting tails until I feel like stopping. If you want you can keep collecting until your vapor temp is 210F and know you removed 100% of all available ethanol.
10. Cover jars and let them air out overnight. Make your cuts. Toss heads and tails in a Feints container for a future all Feints run. Can keep Foreshots for fire starter, solvent, adhesive remover, etc...

When I state how many turns on my gate valve 3 turns for instance, that's 3 turns from the closed position. When I say 6 turns, that's also 6 turns from the closed position. I just don't want you opening 6 ADDITIONAL turns from the previous position :wink:

Occasionally test your output's % ABV to make sure you're reaching azeo. If you aren't getting azeo then there is definitely something wrong. Close your gate valve, shut off power, pour the bad product ideally down through the hole above your reflux condenser. Start again by stabilizing the column.

This is just how I do it. It can be done different ways as bunny pointed out. I do it in a more conventional manor I suppose because that's how most tutorials generally say how to operate a VM.

I cannot give specific advice on how to use SPP to its max potential because I use Lava Rock. I look at SPP as just another type of packing. I personally would treat it as such, try to make azeo at least 3.2 lph as described above then try to step your power up from there to get higher production rate as you become more comfortable. You've got some rabbit holes to go down when it comes to operating SPP in a semi-flooded state and other similar SPP topics.
Last edited by Salt Must Flow on Wed Nov 30, 2022 3:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Help With Design

Post by Salt Must Flow »

It helps me to track how long it takes to fill a jar and/or the lph collection rate based on the jar size at a given power and valve setting. I often set a timer on my phone to alert me if I get distracted. Many like to collect jars in a cookie pan in case of overflows. It happens.

When it comes to calculating collection rate I find that a larger sample size is more accurate. I fill a 250ml graduated cylinder wile timing it. I've sampled 30ml before and it wasn't as accurate as a larger sample size.

I like to keep notes on tests whiles in hearts regarding collection rate at a given power setting. At 50% power 2750 that's 3.2 lph for me. If/when I step up the power, I let it run a while to become stable then repeatedly test the collection rate at that power setting. testing 3-4 times in a row is not ridiculous. Also test % ABV, taste and/or smell.

I've read that larger stills with more efficient packings can collect faster so my notes on collection rate of Foreshots & Heads may be a bit conservative. You and I may be able to collect faster. I despise heads so I'm leery of collecting heads too fast and smearing them into hearts. I'm sensitive and can feel heads (when drinking) when I make a poor/greedy heads cut.

If I were you, I'd grab a jar that's smack dab in the middle of the hearts even fresh off the still, dilute it, make a bottle and you'll see what really good product is like. You'll be astounded. No hangover, no red face, no puking, no spinning, etc... It mellows out more with time after dilution.
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Re: Help With Design

Post by Hebden »

bunny wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:45 am I think we should just let you take a go of it.
Btilliant, so long as I am not going to be dangerous, I am thankful of you guys support. I am the type to learn by doing so much better than reading.
bunny wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:45 am Take good notes and be sure your RC can knock down 3000w.
My "guess" is that a good test for this is Gate valve close and no vapour out of column safety vant, is that correct?

bunny wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:45 am Only one thing on your list is pretty far off imho is the last one. Your valve is supposed to help you split the vapor amount being refluxed and the vapor amount being taken. Don't mess with the RC, just open or close the valve as necessary.
Sorry to ask, but is this "On or Off" or does "As Necessary" fluctuate during operationof RC?
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Re: Help With Design

Post by Hebden »

Salt Must Flow wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 10:13 am This is how I've been doing it. I've made changes to the process over time and you probably will too.
Thank you very much Salt, I will be reading and re-reading this several times before my first run, along with your subsequent post too.

I think I am now equipeped to gor forth and make my own mistakes :lol:
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Re: Help With Design

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Hebden wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:10 pm
bunny wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:45 am I think we should just let you take a go of it.
Btilliant, so long as I am not going to be dangerous, I am thankful of you guys support. I am the type to learn by doing so much better than reading.
bunny wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:45 am Take good notes and be sure your RC can knock down 3000w.
My "guess" is that a good test for this is Gate valve close and no vapour out of column safety vant, is that correct?

bunny wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:45 am Only one thing on your list is pretty far off imho is the last one. Your valve is supposed to help you split the vapor amount being refluxed and the vapor amount being taken. Don't mess with the RC, just open or close the valve as necessary.
Sorry to ask, but is this "On or Off" or does "As Necessary" fluctuate during operationof RC?


Yes. Close the valve, put your 3000w to it with the water full on to your RC. Nothing out the top means it's knocking it all down. You might be able cut back and use a little less water through your RC as long as nothing goes out the top vent.

Sorry, I didn't mean on/off, I meant more/less. You'll see SMF adjusts his as "required" to collect different things during the run. He knows much more about VM than I. :D
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Re: Help With Design

Post by Salt Must Flow »

Hebden wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:18 pm
Salt Must Flow wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 10:13 am This is how I've been doing it. I've made changes to the process over time and you probably will too.
Thank you very much Salt, I will be reading and re-reading this several times before my first run, along with your subsequent post too.

I think I am now equipeped to gor forth and make my own mistakes :lol:
My reflux condenser can knock down 5500W so I'm sure yours will too. During a spirit run my column will flood before vapor can escape if I just crank it up to 5500W. You have to bump the power up a bit to work up to full power if you're in the middle of a run. SPP may be different for all I know though. You can test this kind of stuff during hearts, pour it back and start back up again.
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Re: Help With Design

Post by Salt Must Flow »

bunny wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:24 pm
Hebden wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:10 pm
bunny wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:45 am I think we should just let you take a go of it.
Btilliant, so long as I am not going to be dangerous, I am thankful of you guys support. I am the type to learn by doing so much better than reading.
bunny wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:45 am Take good notes and be sure your RC can knock down 3000w.
My "guess" is that a good test for this is Gate valve close and no vapour out of column safety vant, is that correct?

bunny wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:45 am Only one thing on your list is pretty far off imho is the last one. Your valve is supposed to help you split the vapor amount being refluxed and the vapor amount being taken. Don't mess with the RC, just open or close the valve as necessary.
Sorry to ask, but is this "On or Off" or does "As Necessary" fluctuate during operationof RC?


Yes. Close the valve, put your 3000w to it with the water full on to your RC. Nothing out the top means it's knocking it all down. You might be able cut back and use a little less water through your RC as long as nothing goes out the top vent.

Sorry, I didn't mean on/off, I meant more/less. You'll see SMF adjusts his as "required" to collect different things during the run. He knows much more about VM than I. :D
I don't adjust my reflux condenser. I set it and forget it unless my water pressure fluctuates and requires adjustment if it gets too hot. Most of the time it operates stable enough.

I adjust my shotgun's water to very slow at first because I'm only taking off at a tiny tiny trickle. Later during hearts, I open the valve up, I begin taking off at a much higher rate therefore I have to supply a bit more water to the shotgun because I'm knocking down much more hot vapor. I only do that so I can conserve water consumption a bit.
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Re: Help With Design

Post by Hebden »

Salt Must Flow wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:35 pm My reflux condenser can knock down 5500W so I'm sure yours will too. During a spirit run my column will flood before vapor can escape if I just crank it up to 5500W. You have to bump the power up a bit to work up to full power if you're in the middle of a run. SPP may be different for all I know though. You can test this kind of stuff during hearts, pour it back and start back up again.
So why do you run at 2750w, or is that just that particular stage, then you ramp it up in hearts?

To pour it back in, must the column/boiler be below a certain temp (I am sure you already stated to shut down for this is the case in this thread or in PM)?

I was interested to see also how the spirit/runs are not always done in one day, I thought this was a long one day process, but @Bunny seems to take it steady and over a couple of long days. I have a lot to learn.
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Re: Help With Design

Post by bunny »

Hebden wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:55 pm
Salt Must Flow wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:35 pm My reflux condenser can knock down 5500W so I'm sure yours will too. During a spirit run my column will flood before vapor can escape if I just crank it up to 5500W. You have to bump the power up a bit to work up to full power if you're in the middle of a run. SPP may be different for all I know though. You can test this kind of stuff during hearts, pour it back and start back up again.
So why do you run at 2750w, or is that just that particular stage, then you ramp it up in hearts?

To pour it back in, must the column/boiler be below a certain temp (I am sure you already stated to shut down for this is the case in this thread or in PM)?

I was interested to see also how the spirit/runs are not always done in one day, I thought this was a long one day process, but @Bunny seems to take it steady and over a couple of long days. I have a lot to learn.
I'm taking off a lot slower than most of our brothers. I have refused to even taste sample any future fores and heads. That is why I begin by taking off 1.5l fores, heads, and yes, some hearts at the beginning of my 28l 40% run on day one. My buddy is my shit taster and we have agreed that we are free and clear of the shit at 1.5l.@ 200ml/hr.

It takes a little more energy to shut down when tired and restart in the morning but there is absolutely nothing wrong with this if you have the time.

The "one day process" that you refer to apparently is something pot stillers do for some odd reason.

Have you planned out your gin still yet?
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Re: Help With Design

Post by Salt Must Flow »

Hebden wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:55 pm
Salt Must Flow wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:35 pm My reflux condenser can knock down 5500W so I'm sure yours will too. During a spirit run my column will flood before vapor can escape if I just crank it up to 5500W. You have to bump the power up a bit to work up to full power if you're in the middle of a run. SPP may be different for all I know though. You can test this kind of stuff during hearts, pour it back and start back up again.
So why do you run at 2750w, or is that just that particular stage, then you ramp it up in hearts?

To pour it back in, must the column/boiler be below a certain temp (I am sure you already stated to shut down for this is the case in this thread or in PM)?

I was interested to see also how the spirit/runs are not always done in one day, I thought this was a long one day process, but @Bunny seems to take it steady and over a couple of long days. I have a lot to learn.
Opening the gate valve MORE is the only thing that ramps up your takeoff rate once you're into hearts. The power remains the same. The more you open the gate valve, the more vapor is allowed to escape and get condensed by the shotgun.

I heat up at 100% power, vapor starts to rise up the column and I immediately turn the power down go 50% power (2750W) and leave it there for the rest of the run. That's just the power level and takeoff rate (50% power 2750W 6 turns 3.2 lph) I settled on after much testing. Like I said before, I may very well be able to run at higher power and a higher takeoff rate. More testing is required for me to determine if that is true.

Once I know I'm into tails I open the gate valve 100%, start stepping up the power just to pull out as much ethanol I can before shutting down. I toss those tails into the feints keg for an all feints run some day. Another way of doing this would be to shut down when you hit tails, remove the reflux condenser, cap it and operate in stripping mode to remove the rest of the ethanol. MANY would recommend removing the gate valve when operating in stripping mode for safety sake. If the valve is accidentally left closed then you just created a bomb. Running with reflux pulls off at higher % ABV, but takes longer. Collecting in stripping mode collects at lower % ABV, collects a higher volume, but is quicker.
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Re: Help With Design

Post by Salt Must Flow »

bunny wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 2:20 pm
Hebden wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:55 pm
Salt Must Flow wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:35 pm My reflux condenser can knock down 5500W so I'm sure yours will too. During a spirit run my column will flood before vapor can escape if I just crank it up to 5500W. You have to bump the power up a bit to work up to full power if you're in the middle of a run. SPP may be different for all I know though. You can test this kind of stuff during hearts, pour it back and start back up again.
So why do you run at 2750w, or is that just that particular stage, then you ramp it up in hearts?

To pour it back in, must the column/boiler be below a certain temp (I am sure you already stated to shut down for this is the case in this thread or in PM)?

I was interested to see also how the spirit/runs are not always done in one day, I thought this was a long one day process, but @Bunny seems to take it steady and over a couple of long days. I have a lot to learn.
I'm taking off a lot slower than most of our brothers. I have refused to even taste sample any future fores and heads. That is why I begin by taking off 1.5l fores, heads, and yes, some hearts at the beginning of my 28l 40% run on day one. My buddy is my shit taster and we have agreed that we are free and clear of the shit at 1.5l.@ 200ml/hr.

It takes a little more energy to shut down when tired and restart in the morning but there is absolutely nothing wrong with this if you have the time.

The "one day process" that you refer to apparently is something pot stillers do for some odd reason.

Have you planned out your gin still yet?
bunny apparently I take off at a similar speed as you, actually slower at first. I may be doing it too slow then. Perhaps I should try stepping it up a bit. I take off Foreshots as well as some heads at 0.58 lph. I then step it up and remove heads AND some hearts at approx 1.5 - 1.8 lph. After that I start taking off the rest at 3.2 lph. I just hate heads. A full boiler 13-14 gal takes me most of the day to do a spirit run. I often stop around 5:00-6:00 PM and finish it the following morning.
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Re: Help With Design

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Salt Must Flow wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 5:50 pm bunny apparently I take off at a similar speed as you, actually slower at first. I may be doing it too slow then. Perhaps I should try stepping it up a bit. I take off Foreshots as well as some heads at 0.58 lph. I then step it up and remove heads AND some hearts at approx 1.5 - 1.8 lph. After that I start taking off the rest at 3.2 lph. I just hate heads. A full boiler 13-14 gal takes me most of the day to do a spirit run. I often stop around 5:00-6:00 PM and finish it the following morning.
SMF:

That may very well be true.
Give me a few more data points and I will try to do the math and compare with my 2" LM column.

What is the ABV of your 13-14gal boiler charge ?

What is the ABV of your hearts at the 3.2l/hr take off rate?

Does that ABV remain constant until impending tails?

What is total take off volume of fores and heads?

What is total take off volume of hearts?

Is your column 3" id copper or 2.87" SS?

I'm not using a controller so my electrical sine wave remains in tact and can be metered with old style VOMs and amprobes.

Can you meter your wattage with a TRMS meter?

Can you meter your voltage and amperage with a TRMS meter?

How do you determine your RR?

What is your RR during hearts?

That should do for now. thanks



Hey Hebden!
How was driver's ed today? Flatten any cones? Are we having fun yet?
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Re: Help With Design

Post by Hebden »

bunny wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 8:39 pm Hey Hebden!
How was driver's ed today? Flatten any cones? Are we having fun yet?
Hi Bunny, no we're not having fun yet, my collecting jars haven't arrived yet and so I cannot take cuts. It'll be next week for me now.
However, I have been preparing for a batch of my own tonic, that won't be for a week or two either, but I look forward to it :)
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Re: Help With Design

Post by Salt Must Flow »

bunny wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 8:39 pm
Salt Must Flow wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 5:50 pm bunny apparently I take off at a similar speed as you, actually slower at first. I may be doing it too slow then. Perhaps I should try stepping it up a bit. I take off Foreshots as well as some heads at 0.58 lph. I then step it up and remove heads AND some hearts at approx 1.5 - 1.8 lph. After that I start taking off the rest at 3.2 lph. I just hate heads. A full boiler 13-14 gal takes me most of the day to do a spirit run. I often stop around 5:00-6:00 PM and finish it the following morning.
SMF:

That may very well be true.
Give me a few more data points and I will try to do the math and compare with my 2" LM column.

What is the ABV of your 13-14gal boiler charge ?

What is the ABV of your hearts at the 3.2l/hr take off rate?

Does that ABV remain constant until impending tails?

What is total take off volume of fores and heads?

What is total take off volume of hearts?

Is your column 3" id copper or 2.87" SS?

I'm not using a controller so my electrical sine wave remains in tact and can be metered with old style VOMs and amprobes.

Can you meter your wattage with a TRMS meter?

Can you meter your voltage and amperage with a TRMS meter?

How do you determine your RR?

What is your RR during hearts?

That should do for now. thanks



Hey Hebden!
How was driver's ed today? Flatten any cones? Are we having fun yet?
What is the ABV of your 13-14gal boiler charge ?
For spirit runs it is usually 13 gal a bit under 40% ABV.

What is the ABV of your hearts at the 3.2l/hr take off rate?
My Spirit Hydrometer reads 97% at 64F/17.8C so that should be 96.2% if I calculated correctly.

Does that ABV remain constant until impending tails?
Yes consistently.

What is total take off volume of fores and heads?
I typically cut around 8 pints. Occasionally I feel that there are too much heads so I dump it all back in the boiler, dilute it as much as possible and run it again.

What is total take off volume of hearts?
3.6 gal after cuts on average if my notes are accurate.

Is your column 3" id copper or 2.87" SS?
Stainless 2.87" ID

Can you meter your wattage with a TRMS meter?
Can you meter your voltage and amperage with a TRMS meter?

I don't know if I can. I use an Auber DSPR 400 controller which pulses my 5500W element from 0%-100%. 50% power should be 2750W. I have a meter, but haven't learned how to use it to test this yet.

How do you determine your RR?
What is your RR during hearts?

I haven't finalized what my RR is. I did take notes in the past of what the collection rate is during hearts at 50% power (2750W) with the reflux condenser removed/capped and it was 11.36 lph. I didn't note what the % ABV was if that matters. With reflux my current takeoff rate is 3.2 lph. I keep my power at 50% from start to tails. I don't change the power throughout the run.
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Re: Help With Design

Post by bunny »

Salt Must Flow wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 12:08 pm
OK!
I've tried to put everything in metric. Let me know where I screwed up.

SMF ----------------------------------------------bunny
boiler charge: 49l@40% ----------------------------- 28l@40%

fores/heads take off: 580ml/hr---------------------- 200ml/hr

fores/heads total: 3.75l -----------------------------1.5l (estimate on 49l@40%: 2.62l)

column id: 72.9 ------------------------------------47.5

vapor speed (in "ips") 19.46ips-----------------------16.72ips


I have been studying these numbers and stuff you have commented on along the way.
We may not be that far apart in our end products.

The only thing I can see at this time is possibly I'm concentrating fores and heads into less mls.
It certainly is taking long enough. Not sure it's worth it.

Is your neutral wash the same recipe every time?

You finish cutting heads after 3.75l total. Does your first keeper jar taste the same as your last jar?

You say; "Occasionally I feel there are too much heads so I dump it all back in the boiler." Please elaborate.


Is your meter a TRMS meter. If so I can guide you.

I don't have a need to go any faster than I am currently. I can go a lot faster, but I don't know what I'll end up with.


PM me an address where you can receive a Priority Mail Flat Rate Box. :D
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Re: Help With Design

Post by Salt Must Flow »

bunny PM sent.
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Re: Help With Design

Post by bunny »

Salt Must Flow wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:29 am bunny PM sent.
I only received the previous post, no address. Please try again :D
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Re: Help With Design

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Salt Must Flow wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:29 am bunny PM sent.
also received PM from 1:32PM without address
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Re: Help With Design

Post by bunny »

That looks like a great TRMS meter.
It should be very easy to use.
Watch the video for basic tips.

If you can run your controller with the cover off all you need to do is clamp over one of the leads to where the heater plugs into.
After noting the amp draw unclamp the meter and connect the probes.
Gently back your plug out about 1/16" so you can next measure the voltage between the plug prongs. (be cautious)
Now you have amps X volts = watts



HaHaHa!,
I was in your particular state of indecision several times earlier this year.
I would proof out a whole batch to 40% and a few days later not be happy with it.
Rerunning the spirit run left me without any fores or heads collected and a little less total volume.
Now I would be happy cause I knew I did everything possible.

Turns out there probably wasn't anything wrong with it.
I watched one of Jessie's videos and he complained he went in for dinner and ate a whole bunch of carrots an now every thing he tasted was terrible.
My wheels started turning and I realized that was probably my problem.
So now I certainly don't make any judgements if I'm still picking my teeth.
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Re: Help With Design

Post by Hebden »

Well I am absolutely gutted. Fully assembled and charged my boiler tested the water supply for leakes and shotgun is leaking, I think from both ends. How this has come about I do not know as it wasn't doing it before the low wines or so I thought but I definately 20 minute tested it when it was built and under full pressure. Worst of all, I think it is from the outer edge of the vapour tubes. Honestly I feel sick!

Gonna try sort this tonight, wet rags here we go!
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Re: Help With Design

Post by shadylane »

Damn, leaks suck. :(
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Re: Help With Design

Post by elbono »

shadylane wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 2:23 pm Damn, leaks suck. :(
No, leaks blow. ;-)
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!
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Re: Help With Design

Post by Hebden »

Well one end seems fixed, the other end is evil, pure evil. Kept fixing one leak and creating another. Wet rags are so good, but because my design had water flow in/out so near the end of shotgun, its making things complicated because I can't get the heat into the exact leak point.
I should have not worried about flow/return water coming off and just fixed the vapour end, helps to step back from the job.

I'll get there tomorrow, totally annoying that my boiler is charged, only 25L though and at 32% abv, I'm almost thinking of adding the sacrificial alcohol and just doing another cleaning run & starting sugar mash again. Is that daft.

Shotgun will be full of flux after this, what do you guys think?
Last edited by Hebden on Sun Dec 04, 2022 5:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Help With Design

Post by shadylane »

Definitely need to do a sac run.
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