Help With Design
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- Salt Must Flow
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Re: Help With Design
In my experience, whenever my PH repeatedly needs Calcium Hydroxide to raise it, it's usually due to not having enough Calcium Carbonate. I'm at the point where I'm going to stop using Crushed Oyster Shell and try using limestone instead. I don't like how fine oyster shell is, how fine of mesh bag that's required to hold it and I'm almost positive that Crushed Oyster Shell doesn't allow for enough exposure to the wash because it's so compressed. If I use limestone I can use a coarser mesh bag. Since there will be irregularities/gaps between the stones I suspect the wash will have more exposure to more surface area of the limestone. It should be easier & faster to rinse and since the stone consists of larger pieces I shouldn't have anywhere near as many bits falling out of the bag.
I stopped measuring what the starting gravity is because I'm always using the exact same sugar to water ratio. The SG is always approximately the same. I do check the SG during fermentation just for fun and to keep track of its progress. Once it reads 1.000 I usually leave it one more night just to be thorough.
I've never allowed a sugar wash to cold crash or clear before stripping it. Half the time I'd ferment inside my boiler so everything gets cooked while the other half of the time I pump the wash into the boiler leaving behind any settled sludge. Right now I'm trying cold crashing (because it's cold outside) then clearing using Bentonite Clay just for fun and to see if there is any discernible difference.
I stopped measuring what the starting gravity is because I'm always using the exact same sugar to water ratio. The SG is always approximately the same. I do check the SG during fermentation just for fun and to keep track of its progress. Once it reads 1.000 I usually leave it one more night just to be thorough.
I've never allowed a sugar wash to cold crash or clear before stripping it. Half the time I'd ferment inside my boiler so everything gets cooked while the other half of the time I pump the wash into the boiler leaving behind any settled sludge. Right now I'm trying cold crashing (because it's cold outside) then clearing using Bentonite Clay just for fun and to see if there is any discernible difference.
Last edited by Salt Must Flow on Wed Nov 23, 2022 5:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Help With Design
Calcium hydroxide raises ph doesn't it? Yes I suffered surface area of my oyster shells not having enough exposure to the wash too, and to counteract this next time, I will use 2 or more bags.Salt Must Flow wrote: ↑Wed Nov 23, 2022 12:29 pm In my experience, whenever my PH repeatedly needs Calcium Hydroxide to lower it, it's usually due to not having enough Calcium Carbonate. I'm at the point where I'm going to stop using Crushed Oyster Shell and try using limestone instead. I don't like how fine oyster shell is, how fine of mesh bag that's required to hold it and I'm almost positive that Crushed Oyster Shell doesn't allow for enough exposure to the wash because it's so compressed. If I use limestone I can use a coarser mesh bag. Since there will be irregularities/gaps between the stones I suspect the wash will have more exposure to more surface area of the limestone. It should be easier & faster to rinse and since the stone consists of larger pieces I shouldn't have anywhere near as many bits falling out of the bag.
Looks like this may be my wash's last night, I am waiting on some SPP arriving so don't really want to run until I can perform another vinegar run with that in first.Salt Must Flow wrote: ↑Wed Nov 23, 2022 12:29 pm
I stopped measuring what the starting gravity is because I'm always using the exact same sugar to water ratio. The SG is always approximately the same. I do check the SG during fermentation just for fun and to keep track of its progress. Once it reads 1.000 I usually leave it one more night just to be thorough.
However if it doesn't arrive in time, I will just do a sacrificial cleaning run with it or part of it.
Do you advise a full 50L sacrificial run with my 8% alcohol wash?
I estimate a full 50L charge would run just over 3L of ethanol through. I presume there is a way to retain this and run again when the SPP arrives. Would I just save it and add water for the next cleaning run?
Never heard of cold crashing. Had a quick google but it didn't help, mainly as it's late here and topics I came across were beer related.Salt Must Flow wrote: ↑Wed Nov 23, 2022 12:29 pm
I've never allowed a sugar wash to cold crash or clear before stripping it. Half the time I'd ferment inside my boiler so everything gets cooked while the other half of the time I pump the wash into the boiler leaving behind any settled sludge. Right now I'm trying cold crashing (because it's cold outside) then clearing using Bentonite Clay just for fun and to see if there is any discernible difference.
Rad gives it a resting period:- viewtopic.php?p=7064944#p7064944
I will be giving it a few days because I await SPP. Should I turn all heating off during this time, ie my enviro box?
Re: Help With Design
I've gone the opposite way. I determined how much shell grit was consumed per batch and went to powdered CaCO3. I use about 3-4 rounded tablespoonful per 12 gallon batch for my water. No screwing around with hanging bags and cleans up very easily with the bottom sludge. Got mine on eBay from some guy in Idaho, 20lbs $20 something shipped. Should last a few years.Salt Must Flow wrote: ↑Wed Nov 23, 2022 12:29 pm In my experience, whenever my PH repeatedly needs Calcium Hydroxide to lower it, it's usually due to not having enough Calcium Carbonate. I'm at the point where I'm going to stop using Crushed Oyster Shell and try using limestone instead. I don't like how fine oyster shell is, how fine of mesh bag that's required to hold it and I'm almost positive that Crushed Oyster Shell doesn't allow for enough exposure to the wash because it's so compressed. If I use limestone I can use a coarser mesh bag. Since there will be irregularities/gaps between the stones I suspect the wash will have more exposure to more surface area of the limestone. It should be easier & faster to rinse and since the stone consists of larger pieces I shouldn't have anywhere near as many bits falling out of the bag.
I stopped measuring what the starting gravity is because I'm always using the exact same sugar to water ratio. The SG is always approximately the same. I do check the SG during fermentation just for fun and to keep track of its progress. Once it reads 1.000 I usually leave it one more night just to be thorough.
I've never allowed a sugar wash to cold crash or clear before stripping it. Half the time I'd ferment inside my boiler so everything gets cooked while the other half of the time I pump the wash into the boiler leaving behind any settled sludge. Right now I'm trying cold crashing (because it's cold outside) then clearing using Bentonite Clay just for fun and to see if there is any discernible difference.
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Re: Help With Design
Hebden yes I misspoke. It raises ph.
Cold crashing is where you put your fully fermented wash or mash in a cold environment. It causes the yeast to go dormant and fall to the bottom of the fermenter.
It's been quite a while since I did my first cleaning runs. If I recall correctly, I think I had approx 10 gal of 10% ABV boiler charge.
Cold crashing is where you put your fully fermented wash or mash in a cold environment. It causes the yeast to go dormant and fall to the bottom of the fermenter.
It's been quite a while since I did my first cleaning runs. If I recall correctly, I think I had approx 10 gal of 10% ABV boiler charge.
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Re: Help With Design
I hear ya and I totally understand going that direction. Just dose it and forget about it. I have a bag of powered Calcium Carbonate, I've used it, but I never finalized just how much to add in one dose to buffer throughout an entire ferment. I'd dose, later tested ph and found that the next day more was needed every time so I just kicked it in the ass with a fat sack of Oyster Shell which finally worked. Now Oyster Shell has annoyed me. I'll try Marbel Chips 42 lbs (0.5"-1.5") for $6 and see how it goes.bunny wrote: ↑Wed Nov 23, 2022 4:33 pmI've gone the opposite way. I determined how much shell grit was consumed per batch and went to powdered CaCO3. I use about 3-4 rounded tablespoonful per 12 gallon batch for my water. No screwing around with hanging bags and cleans up very easily with the bottom sludge. Got mine on eBay from some guy in Idaho, 20lbs $20 something shipped. Should last a few years.Salt Must Flow wrote: ↑Wed Nov 23, 2022 12:29 pm In my experience, whenever my PH repeatedly needs Calcium Hydroxide to lower it, it's usually due to not having enough Calcium Carbonate. I'm at the point where I'm going to stop using Crushed Oyster Shell and try using limestone instead. I don't like how fine oyster shell is, how fine of mesh bag that's required to hold it and I'm almost positive that Crushed Oyster Shell doesn't allow for enough exposure to the wash because it's so compressed. If I use limestone I can use a coarser mesh bag. Since there will be irregularities/gaps between the stones I suspect the wash will have more exposure to more surface area of the limestone. It should be easier & faster to rinse and since the stone consists of larger pieces I shouldn't have anywhere near as many bits falling out of the bag.
I stopped measuring what the starting gravity is because I'm always using the exact same sugar to water ratio. The SG is always approximately the same. I do check the SG during fermentation just for fun and to keep track of its progress. Once it reads 1.000 I usually leave it one more night just to be thorough.
I've never allowed a sugar wash to cold crash or clear before stripping it. Half the time I'd ferment inside my boiler so everything gets cooked while the other half of the time I pump the wash into the boiler leaving behind any settled sludge. Right now I'm trying cold crashing (because it's cold outside) then clearing using Bentonite Clay just for fun and to see if there is any discernible difference.
I noted your ratio and will definitely give it a proper try the next time I ferment. I typically do two 55 gal drums at a time. I'll do one drum with the stones and the other one with powder and see how it goes.
Re: Help With Design
Bunny, you know when you add the CaCO3, is that after you lowered PH to ~5.2 with citric acid & right before you pitch yeast?bunny wrote: ↑Wed Nov 23, 2022 4:33 pm I've gone the opposite way. I determined how much shell grit was consumed per batch and went to powdered CaCO3. I use about 3-4 rounded tablespoonful per 12 gallon batch for my water. No screwing around with hanging bags and cleans up very easily with the bottom sludge. Got mine on eBay from some guy in Idaho, 20lbs $20 something shipped. Should last a few years.
Re: Help With Design
My methods are substantially cruder than that.Hebden wrote: ↑Thu Nov 24, 2022 12:57 pmBunny, you know when you add the CaCO3, is that after you lowered PH to ~5.2 with citric acid & right before you pitch yeast?bunny wrote: ↑Wed Nov 23, 2022 4:33 pm I've gone the opposite way. I determined how much shell grit was consumed per batch and went to powdered CaCO3. I use about 3-4 rounded tablespoonful per 12 gallon batch for my water. No screwing around with hanging bags and cleans up very easily with the bottom sludge. Got mine on eBay from some guy in Idaho, 20lbs $20 something shipped. Should last a few years.
I just started a fresh 12g batch an hour ago.
Into my 15g fermenter I dumped 16lbs of plane beet sugar, 3T CaCO3 powder, 1T DAP, 1/8t epsom salt, 1 B-complex and 1 B12 vitamin, enough heated distilled water to reach the 12g mark. After thorough mixing, dumped in 1C baker's yeast on top @91*f pitch temp. Let that sit there 20 minutes and then stirred it in. Put lid on and set blowoff tube. It's going quite good after 15 more minutes and gangbusters after an hour.
This is a test batch to see if 3T CaCO3 is enough to balance the pH against 16lbs of sugar.
I do not lower my pH intentionally as it should drop like a stone within 24 hours to 4 something with the added CaCO3.
I believe that lowering your starting pH is supposed to help prevent infections.
My ferments are typically 1.01x SG at 24 hours and below 1.000 after 48 hours.
I rack and triple strip at 72 hours.(0.99x)
I used to open the fermenter at 24 hours, take a pH, and drop in a hydrometer and leave it there. I don't bother anymore. Consistency is just marvelous!
(except I will on this test batch).
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Re: Help With Design
From what I've read, the main reason for lowering the ph initially before pitching yeast is so that the yeast doesn't have to be subjected to the ph swing/drop. Like they always say, keep the yeast happy (steady temp and steady ph). It also allows the Calcium Carbonate to begin buffering to stabilize the ph. I don't know whether anyone would be able to notice the difference in their product either way you do it.
Re: Help With Design
Thanks Bunny, I notice you use distilled water, do you distill your own and is there a discernible differance in end product?
So what %abv are you achieving in that wash?
Is it ok to strip when runs not fully complete?
Reason I ask is my first run has slowed a lot but is still bubbling although much gentler and my SG is in the 0.99x range but had a marginal drop yesterday.
I ask because I am not sure when done is done in the ferment. My wash is still gently bubbling away and SG dropped just 0.002 SG in last 24hrs.
Whilever this is the case, do I let it continue?
I thought lowering ph was more about not stressing the yeast. As you say, ph drops like a stone anyhow in first 24hrs and so infections will be catered for anyhow. But the initial controlled ph drop just helped the yeast to not stress, giving better results. Of course I am usually wrong.
Wow, that is el rapido... and so your run is fully complete at 72hrs or are you happy to strip no matter what at 72hrs as your consistant formula tells you it is close enough even if not totally complete?
So what %abv are you achieving in that wash?
Is it ok to strip when runs not fully complete?
Reason I ask is my first run has slowed a lot but is still bubbling although much gentler and my SG is in the 0.99x range but had a marginal drop yesterday.
I ask because I am not sure when done is done in the ferment. My wash is still gently bubbling away and SG dropped just 0.002 SG in last 24hrs.
Whilever this is the case, do I let it continue?
Re: Help With Design
OK-Hebden wrote: ↑Thu Nov 24, 2022 3:25 pm Thanks Bunny, I notice you use distilled water, do you distill your own and is there a discernible differance in end product?
I thought lowering ph was more about not stressing the yeast. As you say, ph drops like a stone anyhow in first 24hrs and so infections will be catered for anyhow. But the initial controlled ph drop just helped the yeast to not stress, giving better results. Of course I am usually wrong.
Wow, that is el rapido... and so your run is fully complete at 72hrs or are you happy to strip no matter what at 72hrs as your consistant formula tells you it is close enough even if not totally complete?
So what %abv are you achieving in that wash?
Is it ok to strip when runs not fully complete?
Reason I ask is my first run has slowed a lot but is still bubbling although much gentler and my SG is in the 0.99x range but had a marginal drop yesterday.
I ask because I am not sure when done is done in the ferment. My wash is still gently bubbling away and SG dropped just 0.002 SG in last 24hrs.
Whilever this is the case, do I let it continue?
This is a one time test batch that I used distilled water from the store to determine if 3Tbs CaCO3 will keep the pH from crashing and stalling using 16lbs of sugar in water without any hardness.
Typically I use hot and cold tap water to build my washes.
Typically my run has gone to dryness just after 48 hours.
I give it the third 24 hours mainly to let it settle a little and completely stop bubbling.
My temps run 92-98*f on average. That's why it hustles along quite fast.
The calculator says 9.4%ABV.
A true sugar wash should always finish dry, unlike other washes/mashes that may contain un-fermentable stuff.
Your SG 0.99x is probably done enough, but you can let it sit there for just about as long as you need to wait. (If you are using shells or grit be sure to remove it at this point.)( What was the highest temp you recorded?)
Re: Help With Design
Ph 4.4 and SG 0.994 static for 24hrs. Highest temp so far was 91.6f, it was the start temp and lowered to sub 90f since. And so, today must have been completion +1 day.
(although at some point there was a blip reading of 98f which I think was caused by under floor heating kicking in)
My guess is my SPP packing will arrive tuesday, meaning I could conduct stripping runs Wednesday. Would it be a danger to hold onto my wash until then, that would be completion +6 days?
Ideally I wanted to only conduct one sacrificial run, but if I save the sacrificial product, I can clean the SPP another day I suppose.
If I must strip over next two or three days, does anyone know roughly how long the stripping run would roughly take if I strip - 150L @ 5kw in 3" column with a massive shotgun that should take all the power I chuck at it?
Do you just add water to saved sacrificial alcohol in order to keep re-using the sacrificial product for future cleaning runs?
(although at some point there was a blip reading of 98f which I think was caused by under floor heating kicking in)
My guess is my SPP packing will arrive tuesday, meaning I could conduct stripping runs Wednesday. Would it be a danger to hold onto my wash until then, that would be completion +6 days?
Ideally I wanted to only conduct one sacrificial run, but if I save the sacrificial product, I can clean the SPP another day I suppose.
If I must strip over next two or three days, does anyone know roughly how long the stripping run would roughly take if I strip - 150L @ 5kw in 3" column with a massive shotgun that should take all the power I chuck at it?
Do you just add water to saved sacrificial alcohol in order to keep re-using the sacrificial product for future cleaning runs?
Re: Help With Design
Personally i wouldn't, it's done it's job to strip out nasties and I wouldn't want to run them through something else
It will be fine, just keep it in its fermentor and don't fiddle with it
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Re: Help With Design
Once fully fermented, as bunny said, remove the Calcium Carbonate and it can sit around for a very long time.
Most that have bought SPP say they had to clean it really well to remove oils, etc... I've seen where people have boiled it in a big pot of soapy water (dish soap) even multiple times before it became clean. I'd do that before your cleaning runs.
Personally I'd just wait for the SPP to arrive, clean it the best you can, do a vinegar/water run then do ONE sacrificial alcohol run.
Most that have bought SPP say they had to clean it really well to remove oils, etc... I've seen where people have boiled it in a big pot of soapy water (dish soap) even multiple times before it became clean. I'd do that before your cleaning runs.
Personally I'd just wait for the SPP to arrive, clean it the best you can, do a vinegar/water run then do ONE sacrificial alcohol run.
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Re: Help With Design
When I strip at 5500W I get 10.2 - 11.2 lph.
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Re: Help With Design
That may be part of it. When I went from 15 gallon ferments to 100 gal ferments, I found I could not get it to finish as low. Yeast supplier suggested lowering pitch ph to 5.2-5.4. I did so and then my washes finished below 1.00. I believe this is because the 7 ish ph of most city water is too high and thus the yeast does no propagate as well. Probably not an issue on small ferments as we tend to over pitch, but for bigger fermentations, it was noticeable. He also recommended rehydrating the yeast at a 10:1 water/yeast at ~90 deg. I added this to my regiment as well, but didn’t notice the same impact as lowering the pitch ph.Salt Must Flow wrote: ↑Thu Nov 24, 2022 3:22 pm From what I've read, the main reason for lowering the ph initially before pitching yeast is so that the yeast doesn't have to be subjected to the ph swing/drop. Like they always say, keep the yeast happy (steady temp and steady ph). It also allows the Calcium Carbonate to begin buffering to stabilize the ph. I don't know whether anyone would be able to notice the difference in their product either way you do it.
I did dry pitch my vodka as it would finish in 2 days for 110 gal. It was a mix of barley and sugar. Minimal buffering and nutrients as the barley added most of what was needed.
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Re: Help With Design
Good news, SPP arrived Saturday and so Sunday I can clean.
Although I knew exactly what size it was, I'm surprised how small it is. I read somewhere on here it should be 10% column width, well mine is just under 6% and jeez it gets everywhere when you spill a little it keeps turning up for hours.
Anyhow, it arrived so perfectly presented and in a way that takes ones doubts away as to it looking short of the purchased volume, if anything it would be marginally over purchased volume. Also, honestly it does not have a drop of grease, it's very clean already. I'm still going to do the vinegar run with it, but I'm doubting it needs it.
I can see it is going to be fun catching this stuff every time I disassemble the column.
Although I knew exactly what size it was, I'm surprised how small it is. I read somewhere on here it should be 10% column width, well mine is just under 6% and jeez it gets everywhere when you spill a little it keeps turning up for hours.
Anyhow, it arrived so perfectly presented and in a way that takes ones doubts away as to it looking short of the purchased volume, if anything it would be marginally over purchased volume. Also, honestly it does not have a drop of grease, it's very clean already. I'm still going to do the vinegar run with it, but I'm doubting it needs it.
I can see it is going to be fun catching this stuff every time I disassemble the column.
Re: Help With Design
I don't mean to be a nuisance, I'm just trying to learn safely, but the last paragraph in this article clearly says one should keep the product and thus is a sticky and so I thought it was like guaranteed to be good info.
viewtopic.php?p=6835986#p6835986kiwistiller wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2010 2:43 pm
Don't treat this as drinkable, but do keep it, clearly labeled as cleaning run alcohol - you can use this for your next build. Trust me, there'll be others
Edit: I'm agreeing with you now Sporacle, that shotgun condenser I built must have some right cack in it which will come out product end. I'll not run it again.
Re: Help With Design
Yea I reuse cleaning alc a few times
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Re: Help With Design
Yeah, I'm sure it's fine to use again, personally I don't but that's just me. I do keep it and use it to kill weeds and clean stuff in my shed.
There are plenty of people that do reuse
" you can pick your nose and you can pick your friends; but you can't always wipe your friends off on your saddle" sage advice from Kinky Friedman
Re: Help With Design
SPP had vinegarvrun, then sacrificial run done. Now on 1st stripper.
Running 5100+ watts
85ml in 30 secs
Shotgun out 89c
Vapour temp 94.7c
Collect temp 21.8c
10.2 lph
43 abv
End of 1st 50L ran into vspour temp of 98c, too high, will drop a bit on 2nd 50L:-
5100+ watts
67ml in 30 secs
Shotgun out 91.7c
Vapour temp 98c = needs lowering.
Collect temp 23.6c
8.04 lph
15 abv Oops
Running 5100+ watts
85ml in 30 secs
Shotgun out 89c
Vapour temp 94.7c
Collect temp 21.8c
10.2 lph
43 abv
End of 1st 50L ran into vspour temp of 98c, too high, will drop a bit on 2nd 50L:-
5100+ watts
67ml in 30 secs
Shotgun out 91.7c
Vapour temp 98c = needs lowering.
Collect temp 23.6c
8.04 lph
15 abv Oops
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Re: Help With Design
Was your total collected product 15% ABV? I wasn't sure if that's what you meant or not.
What's going on with those scrubbers? Did they originally look like copper? If not, they're probably just copper plated.
Copper Knitted Mesh works great for supporting packing. Scrubbers can compress, cause a choke point and flooding.
What's going on with those scrubbers? Did they originally look like copper? If not, they're probably just copper plated.
Copper Knitted Mesh works great for supporting packing. Scrubbers can compress, cause a choke point and flooding.
Re: Help With Design
Hi Salt,Salt Must Flow wrote: ↑Sun Nov 27, 2022 11:01 am Was your total collected product 15% ABV? I wasn't sure if that's what you meant or not.
What's going on with those scrubbers? Did they originally look like copper? If not, they're probably just copper plated.
Copper Knitted Mesh works great for supporting packing. Scrubbers can compress, cause a choke point and flooding.
Copper Mesh.jpg
Perhaps my numbers are misleading you, I updating on the fly.
At Vapour temp 98c (the end of run), abv was 15%.
I've not done a combined abv yet, just been taking readings at various temps.
Now I'm getting the hang of it.
Shotgun is so big it is like slowing a cruise liner, 1/10th turns can have effects and swings in temp, no worries really, I am getting better at pulling at 20c.
I'm on 3rd and final 50L strip, figures again:-
92ml in 30 secs
Shotgun out 84.7c
Vapour temp 94.2
Collect temp 20c
11.04 lph
42% abv
I will stop at 98c again, us yorkshire men don't like leaving any alcohol behind.
Oh the copper was shite, need new (and better) for spirit run. Do you think I need to vinegar wash and sacrificial run a diddy bit of new mesh?
I originally used stuff like you posted but it got stained on vinegar run no.1 and so I didn't want to use again. Purchased scrubbers but they more or less disintegrated.
I still have the copper mesh roll that did the vinegar run (slightly stained, but superior in quality). What's your thoughts?
If I used it even just at base to support SPP, well that would mean I could do the alcohol run tomorrow or Tues.
ps, Now it's my turn to be living the dream
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Re: Help With Design
It is common for people making neutral to stop once their total collected product reaches 40% ABV.
I just looked at a chart which says if your vapor temp is 98C/208.4F then the exiting product should be just over 20% ABV. In my experience, when my total collected product reaches 40% ABV, the exiting product is coming out at approx 10% ABV. That chart appears to correlate accurately. I just did a stripping run yesterday and I do recall that my vapor temp at that moment was 98.3C/209F as my total collected product was 40% AVB if I recall correctly. I'll be doing another stripping run either tonight or tomorrow so I'll confirm.
If that chart is truly accurate then you could have stripped for a good bit longer. You may unfortunately find that your total collected product is 50% or higher ABV.
Since we're talking temps, with my setup, I get first drops on my stripping run when my boiler is 189F. All that means is that at that temp the vapor is rising up my riser. Of course we don't run stills based on temp, but with the same recipe over and over again, the temps do correlate repeatably. Knowing these things help me to be able to predict things. I'll set an alarm at the top of my column for 100F. Once the alarm sounds I turn the condenser water on, look at the boiler temp and within moments product starts to exit (boiler temp 189F). It doesn't hurt to know what that boiler temp is so you can just look and see how far along you are on heat-up.
I'd probably just use roll it up nice and use that copper mesh. Keep in mind that your mesh WILL look ugly as hell very soon so don't worry about it. Just be careful to not roll it up too tight. It doesn't need to be wound real tight.
I just looked at a chart which says if your vapor temp is 98C/208.4F then the exiting product should be just over 20% ABV. In my experience, when my total collected product reaches 40% ABV, the exiting product is coming out at approx 10% ABV. That chart appears to correlate accurately. I just did a stripping run yesterday and I do recall that my vapor temp at that moment was 98.3C/209F as my total collected product was 40% AVB if I recall correctly. I'll be doing another stripping run either tonight or tomorrow so I'll confirm.
If that chart is truly accurate then you could have stripped for a good bit longer. You may unfortunately find that your total collected product is 50% or higher ABV.
Since we're talking temps, with my setup, I get first drops on my stripping run when my boiler is 189F. All that means is that at that temp the vapor is rising up my riser. Of course we don't run stills based on temp, but with the same recipe over and over again, the temps do correlate repeatably. Knowing these things help me to be able to predict things. I'll set an alarm at the top of my column for 100F. Once the alarm sounds I turn the condenser water on, look at the boiler temp and within moments product starts to exit (boiler temp 189F). It doesn't hurt to know what that boiler temp is so you can just look and see how far along you are on heat-up.
I'd probably just use roll it up nice and use that copper mesh. Keep in mind that your mesh WILL look ugly as hell very soon so don't worry about it. Just be careful to not roll it up too tight. It doesn't need to be wound real tight.
Last edited by Salt Must Flow on Sun Nov 27, 2022 8:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Help With Design
Thanks Salt,
Well my final 50L of washbstripped into corney keg at 32%abv and temp was 21c.
So that's a very good example of what I believe I've collected throughout because on all 3 strips, i stopped at 82c, so they must all be close in abv terms.
In total I think, uts a good guess but still a guess, that I collected just over 30L of 32% according to my alcometer.
I'm a bit disappointed that o couldn't achieve 40% even, I wonder why that is.
Next time I strip, I can lower the column by 400mm but that wouldn't make up the abv to 40% either, I don't think.
Perhaps it was because my wash never reached 10% abv.
Although who knows how accurate my equipment is.
I don't understand why if I had collected at 50% abv, it would be unfortunate, is that because I'd have left some alcohol behind by not collecting far enough into the run.
On the topic of accuracy, I purchased some scales with 0.1g accuracy for my botanical, whilst it read in 0.1g, it certainly wasn't accurate.
Thanks, I'll use my copper.
So I don't see much point in a mega hose down if I'm running product tomorrow, I did fully clean my boiler, but column should be OK having had low wines only, is that correct?
It's been a marathon of a day, really pleased with my product and it looks clear as water, slight as in very slight oil slick on corney no.1, the full one.
I won't miss the smell, her indoors says it didn't smell, but I felt I got fed up of it having sat in front all day.
Well my final 50L of washbstripped into corney keg at 32%abv and temp was 21c.
So that's a very good example of what I believe I've collected throughout because on all 3 strips, i stopped at 82c, so they must all be close in abv terms.
In total I think, uts a good guess but still a guess, that I collected just over 30L of 32% according to my alcometer.
I'm a bit disappointed that o couldn't achieve 40% even, I wonder why that is.
Next time I strip, I can lower the column by 400mm but that wouldn't make up the abv to 40% either, I don't think.
Perhaps it was because my wash never reached 10% abv.
Although who knows how accurate my equipment is.
I don't understand why if I had collected at 50% abv, it would be unfortunate, is that because I'd have left some alcohol behind by not collecting far enough into the run.
On the topic of accuracy, I purchased some scales with 0.1g accuracy for my botanical, whilst it read in 0.1g, it certainly wasn't accurate.
Thanks, I'll use my copper.
So I don't see much point in a mega hose down if I'm running product tomorrow, I did fully clean my boiler, but column should be OK having had low wines only, is that correct?
It's been a marathon of a day, really pleased with my product and it looks clear as water, slight as in very slight oil slick on corney no.1, the full one.
I won't miss the smell, her indoors says it didn't smell, but I felt I got fed up of it having sat in front all day.
- Salt Must Flow
- Distiller
- Posts: 1920
- Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2022 2:06 pm
- Location: Wuhan China (Novel Coronavirus Laboratory)
Re: Help With Design
To keep it simple at first, strip and collect all product in a single container. Every once in a while I give it a good stir with a stainless spatula, grab a sample and use a spirit hydrometer to see what the % ABV is (do temp correction if necessary). I'm stripping right now and at the moment the total collected product reads 52% ABV. As the stripping run progresses, the product that exits begins to lower in % ABV. Eventually the total collected product begins to become diluted and will start to lower in % ABV too. Once the total collected product reaches 40% ABV or so you can stop. Some stop sooner, some stop later.
Yeah no sense in hosing down the column if you're going to run again. Even after you're done stripping, no point in rinsing the column if you'll be refluxing soon too. The reflux will clean the packing from top to bottom while stabilizing.
Yeah no sense in hosing down the column if you're going to run again. Even after you're done stripping, no point in rinsing the column if you'll be refluxing soon too. The reflux will clean the packing from top to bottom while stabilizing.
Re: Help With Design
Opening SG was 1.051, FG 0.992 = Alcohol content = 7.611
Roughly used 110L wash (~30L sacrificial + ~10L sludge) = 8.37L pure alcohol available (theoretically)
Actual collection was ~30L @ ~32% = ~9.6L
(volume is judged bye eye within corney kegs so will be off by a liter or 4 ie collected low wines could be between 29L-33L)
I also know my original SG was poor as I took it after pitching and in the bubbling fermenter, that may explain the minor discrepancy. But it is in the ball park, I am pleased with first strip.
Product run will be fun, it was complicated enough with just the shotgun condenser, running the RC too will be a learning curve!
Thanks Salt and all others that got me this far. The hard work is done.
Roughly used 110L wash (~30L sacrificial + ~10L sludge) = 8.37L pure alcohol available (theoretically)
Actual collection was ~30L @ ~32% = ~9.6L
(volume is judged bye eye within corney kegs so will be off by a liter or 4 ie collected low wines could be between 29L-33L)
I also know my original SG was poor as I took it after pitching and in the bubbling fermenter, that may explain the minor discrepancy. But it is in the ball park, I am pleased with first strip.
Product run will be fun, it was complicated enough with just the shotgun condenser, running the RC too will be a learning curve!
Thanks Salt and all others that got me this far. The hard work is done.
Re: Help With Design
Well, for today maybe.
Tomorrow is another day.
You have just become a student driver and entered culinary school on the same day.
You have yet to take a sip of anything that resembles a quality product.
It will come to you in fits and spurts with experience, trial and error.
There will be "bad stuff" before there's any "good stuff".
But there will be "good stuff".
Remember: When all else fails, go slower.
Re: Help With Design
Bunny, you are a mind reader, I have not yet started the product run, but whilst I have been awaiting my collection of jars to enable luts of cuts, I have been thinking on exactly what you just mentioned. Speed!
Looks like you've already answered my question too, which was why go slow. Now you have, intuition tells me I need to equalise at max reflux, take the early litres slow, speed up in the hearts (like I know where they are ) and then slow towards the end.
Looks like another topic needs researching.
Re: Help With Design
Just measured alcohol within my sacrificial run "waste" product - 83.3abv - Temp corrected
(it smells undrinkably foul - rubbed in hands - I think ethyl acetate)
That was packed with SPP and a combined product mixture of 25 minutes of steaming + 25 minutes of attempting to run my column as practice run with output nozzle sat 4" below the corny opening.
I had steam coming out of the pressure release hole above my RC and so, I need to be more careful when indoors for real runs.
I'm not sure why I was so far away from the higher abv I would expect from the column, but I presume just being a total novice.
(it smells undrinkably foul - rubbed in hands - I think ethyl acetate)
That was packed with SPP and a combined product mixture of 25 minutes of steaming + 25 minutes of attempting to run my column as practice run with output nozzle sat 4" below the corny opening.
I had steam coming out of the pressure release hole above my RC and so, I need to be more careful when indoors for real runs.
I'm not sure why I was so far away from the higher abv I would expect from the column, but I presume just being a total novice.
Re: Help With Design
If you remember I only try to make neutral. Shady's recipe is just for that.Hebden wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 6:59 amBunny, you are a mind reader, I have not yet started the product run, but whilst I have been awaiting my collection of jars to enable luts of cuts, I have been thinking on exactly what you just mentioned. Speed!
Looks like you've already answered my question too, which was why go slow. Now you have, intuition tells me I need to equalise at max reflux, take the early litres slow, speed up in the hearts (like I know where they are ) and then slow towards the end.
Looks like another topic needs researching.
A growing number of individuals are no longer equalizing their neutral packed columns.
I'm one of them.
I also do not use a controller. My element provides 16.72 ips vapor at 118v. this is below any flooding speed for my packed column.
I plug in my boiler and let it run. Eventually it heats up the column and vapor hits the RC. I take off a fixed amount of fores and heads (1500ml) @ 200 ml/hour using a 0.32mm jet. That's so slow it takes almost 8 hours after heat-up. I unplug the boiler and come back in the morning.
Day 2, I plug the boiler back in and usually within an hour the column is again producing this time at 500+ml/hr using a 0.45mm jet. My RR is about 8-1 over 57" of manu's tiny spp.
I now collect in 1500ml wine bottles until my column thermometers tell me to prepare for the end.
I know you didn't want to hear about "slow", however this distillate measures 97ABV@60*f like clockwork.
Now, if you don't mind, I have a few questions:
Whose spp are you using?
How much did you buy?
How many inches spp in your column?
What are the size specs on your spp?