Help With Design
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- squigglefunk
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Re: Help With Design
yes, in my experience, a .8 mm gap is a lot to ask of solder to fill?
I fit a 2" copper reducer inside a 2.5" Stainless steel ferrule, there was a significant gap. I used a thin solid copper wire and used that as a shim to slide down between the two and seal the gap. I used a screwdriver and hammer to fit it.
I fit a 2" copper reducer inside a 2.5" Stainless steel ferrule, there was a significant gap. I used a thin solid copper wire and used that as a shim to slide down between the two and seal the gap. I used a screwdriver and hammer to fit it.
- squigglefunk
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Re: Help With Design
I recently built a 3ft copper column using 2.5" ID diameter pipe. The stainless steel ferrules are 2.5" OD diameter. (in theory)
The copper pipe ID was slightly less than 2.5". I used a file to taper the edge of the copper pipe inside and a bench grinder to taper the ferrule on the outside. Then I put a piece of wood on the floor, put the pipe on the wood, put the ferrule on top of the pipe and aligned it as best I could to center it. I put another piece of wood on top of the ferrule and I used a rubber mallet to hammer the ferrule into the pipe. Once it got started I took the wood away from the top and just used the mallet. It took a lot of hammering but you can basically stretch out the copper to fit the ferrule. I did not use any solder for these joints and they do not leak.
- still_stirrin
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Re: Help With Design
I wonder … with the thermal expansion differences of copper and stainless steel, do these “mechanical joints” loosen? I would be a little concerned about the potential for (future) vapor or water leaks.
Have you run the condenser a few times (successfully) yet?
ss
Have you run the condenser a few times (successfully) yet?
ss
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Re: Help With Design
Thanks again Normandie, I looked up Griffon S39, it definately seems easier to acquire than Harris 8 although I'll still prbobly need to buy from EU.NormandieStill wrote: ↑Fri Apr 01, 2022 3:44 am I theory you could get it too tight for solder, but in reality it's never going to happen. I learnt to solder by brazing steel (chromoly) with phosphor-bronze. I knew I'd got my head around it when test brazing a flat strip (more or less) to a curved pipe. When I applied the solder at one end it appeared almost immediately at the other end of the joint. It took a tiny bit of bronze but the resulting joint could not be pulled apart despite two of us using some serious leverage.
The SS ferrules on my column are 2" and fitted into 54mm heavy gauge pipe (54x1.5mm). I tapped them in with a block of wood and a hammer having put flux on before hand. Zero leaks!
And here in mainland Europe you can get Griffon S39 which is a liquid flux designed for using on zinc and SS. Works a treat, and you might be able to get a pot shipped from Europe for less than you'll pay for what looks like a sample bottle of StayClean.
Should I be using a cleaning agent to remove excess flux do you know? Currently I buff off which is removing some surface.
My 54mm copper just isn't so tight a fit, no hammer needed as it's 54mmx1.2mm walls, they slip over with so much ease I need to be really careful that they're sat on straight and the copper not leaning to one side.
When my new 2" ferrule arrives, it will be too small for my pipe again and because my pipe sits "outside" the ferrule collar, I am not sure how I will get a shim in as the head of the ferrule will stop me having access.squigglefunk wrote: ↑Fri Apr 01, 2022 3:50 am yes, in my experience, a .8 mm gap is a lot to ask of solder to fill?
I fit a 2" copper reducer inside a 2.5" Stainless steel ferrule, there was a significant gap. I used a thin solid copper wire and used that as a shim to slide down between the two and seal the gap. I used a screwdriver and hammer to fit it.
That was good work with your 2.5" pipe btw, I would just worry it may leak at high temperature if steel and copper heat/expand at different speeds.
- squigglefunk
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Re: Help With Design
for what it's worth, mine is not a condenser, it is only being used as a riser/column.still_stirrin wrote: ↑Fri Apr 01, 2022 5:56 am I wonder … with the thermal expansion differences of copper and stainless steel, do these “mechanical joints” loosen? I would be a little concerned about the potential for (future) vapor or water leaks.
Have you run the condenser a few times (successfully) yet?
ss
I have run mine this way, did a steam run, vinegar run, and sacrificial run and it did not leak nor loosen. It is super tight. But good point about the differences in expansion. I will keep an eye on it.
if it does seem to loose up it won't take much to solder it up.
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Re: Help With Design
Except that by then the surfaces will be dirty and you'll have to disassemble it to clean everything up before soldering!squigglefunk wrote: ↑Fri Apr 01, 2022 6:55 am if it does seem to loose up it won't take much to solder it up.
"I have a potstill that smears like a fresh plowed coon on the highway" - Jimbo
A little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers
A little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers
Re: Help With Design
Hebden,
I had no luck finding the Harris flux at sensible prices in the UK a few years back but this worked well for me https://www.cupalloys.co.uk/store/HT5-F ... p276411634
Its a powder, just mix a small amount in a jar and it lasts for ages, add a drop of washing up liquid and then when it the jar drys out it will quickly mix back to liquid when you add water.
I've used it for stainless to stainless, stainless to copper and stainless to silver with no problems.
May be an option for you.
I had no luck finding the Harris flux at sensible prices in the UK a few years back but this worked well for me https://www.cupalloys.co.uk/store/HT5-F ... p276411634
Its a powder, just mix a small amount in a jar and it lasts for ages, add a drop of washing up liquid and then when it the jar drys out it will quickly mix back to liquid when you add water.
I've used it for stainless to stainless, stainless to copper and stainless to silver with no problems.
May be an option for you.
Re: Help With Design
Thanks amh71, I have bookmarked it:)
Can anyone say, should my keg thermostat sit on top of my keg in vapour zone, or should I sit it lower to be in the liquid zone?
Can anyone say, should my keg thermostat sit on top of my keg in vapour zone, or should I sit it lower to be in the liquid zone?
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Re: Help With Design
It should sit on a shelf somewhere gathering dust.
Seriously, unless you really want to see for yourself at what temperature your wash boils (-+ some amount depending on the accuracy of your thermometer) its best place is measuring the temperature of your room somewhere where it won't distract you. Listen to the sound of the wash boiling (the sound will change as it nears boiling point, and again when it actually boils. Put your hand (carefully) on your riser or lyne arm to feel the temperature rise there, and on the wall of your condenser to check for a temperature gradient. Smell the sweet fores as they start to work their way out of the condenser. The thermometer will just distract you from all the other information that you're getting. Best not to have it at all.
"I have a potstill that smears like a fresh plowed coon on the highway" - Jimbo
A little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers
A little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers
Re: Help With Design
Well I certainly understand your point there Normandie and I understand exactly what you mean by sound of boiling as I used to steam milk once upon a time and you can hear the tone deepen just as its time to stop the steam, leave it a few seconds longer and milk is spoilt.
But, firstly regarding the take off tee (just before valve) I had planned on a stat... I had read that you can control the run by this vapour temp.
Plus if I do plan on running other products later down the line, would this stat ever be useful?
Back to the keg stat though, what about when I start looking into heating element controllers, would it not be possible to use the element controller in an automated state meaning I don't have to fully babysit the whole distillation by means of cutting element power at certain temps?
But, firstly regarding the take off tee (just before valve) I had planned on a stat... I had read that you can control the run by this vapour temp.
Plus if I do plan on running other products later down the line, would this stat ever be useful?
Back to the keg stat though, what about when I start looking into heating element controllers, would it not be possible to use the element controller in an automated state meaning I don't have to fully babysit the whole distillation by means of cutting element power at certain temps?
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Re: Help With Design
A thermometer on the take-off from a reflux column is apparently useful (Not run one yet), but it's more a question of changing temperature rather than the actual temperature and the difference is (from memory) less than 0.5°C so you're going to need accuracy. But even there I question it. I can run my 2" CCVM at take-off rates from 100ml / hr to around 1.4L / hour and get azeo, but past a certain speed I'm just pushing tails into that remaining 5%. Not sure I'd see a temperature difference there, but the taste is a good indicator of what's going on.Hebden wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 10:35 am Well I certainly understand your point there Normandie and I understand exactly what you mean by sound of boiling as I used to steam milk once upon a time and you can hear the tone deepen just as its time to stop the steam, leave it a few seconds longer and milk is spoilt.
But, firstly regarding the take off tee (just before valve) I had planned on a stat... I had read that you can control the run by this vapour temp.
Plus if I do plan on running other products later down the line, would this stat ever be useful?
No. No. No. You can't. You really need to go back and read the stuff on PIDs that's been bounced around in the past. The only use for temperature control might be if you wanted to hold your wash below boiling point in order to get some chemistry to happen (think rum ester production). Otherwise you are going to get the whole wash to boiling point, and then control the rate of boiling by controlling the energy input. You have no control over the boiling point, and you shouldn't be making cuts decisions based on temperature unless you running a recipe that you've run hundreds of times, with consistent results.Hebden wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 10:35 am Back to the keg stat though, what about when I start looking into heating element controllers, would it not be possible to use the element controller in an automated state meaning I don't have to fully babysit the whole distillation by means of cutting element power at certain temps?
And you really want to be babysitting your still. I've had a nice incident in the past where a momentary lapse of concentration resulted in a coolant pipe blowing and vapour exiting the end of my liebig. I was sat next to the still and dealt with it within seconds, but the potential for catastrophe (read, Hello Fire Brigade) is real. If something goes wrong you want to be around to deal with it then and there, not filing insurances claims and hoping that no-one notices your still in the rubble.
"I have a potstill that smears like a fresh plowed coon on the highway" - Jimbo
A little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers
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Re: Help With Design
So you literally go by taste to determine your takeoff rate? As in you'll take off the foreshots and then let the system take off a little faster and then obviously your well versed enough to know this almost second nature, but you'll taste away getting close to key stages and slow down approaching tails?NormandieStill wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 11:17 am A thermometer on the take-off from a reflux column is apparently useful (Not run one yet), but it's more a question of changing temperature rather than the actual temperature and the difference is (from memory) less than 0.5°C so you're going to need accuracy. But even there I question it. I can run my 2" CCVM at take-off rates from 100ml / hr to around 1.4L / hour and get azeo, but past a certain speed I'm just pushing tails into that remaining 5%. Not sure I'd see a temperature difference there, but the taste is a good indicator of what's going on.
I will go find these threads and do more homework thanks for the pointer:)NormandieStill wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 11:17 am No. No. No. You can't. You really need to go back and read the stuff on PIDs that's been bounced around in the past. The only use for temperature control might be if you wanted to hold your wash below boiling point in order to get some chemistry to happen (think rum ester production). Otherwise you are going to get the whole wash to boiling point, and then control the rate of boiling by controlling the energy input. You have no control over the boiling point, and you shouldn't be making cuts decisions based on temperature unless you running a recipe that you've run hundreds of times, with consistent results.
- bluefish_dist
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Re: Help With Design
On my VM column, take off rate was a function of how the still was running. At a set power input, based on column vapor speed, I would watch the temperature and adjust reflux to hold the temperature/abv I wanted. Takeoff was just what it was. If temperature increased (abv drop) then increase reflux, if temperature was below what I wanted, reduce reflux. I will note that I took a certain portion of heads at a slow rate (high reflux, low temp) to help concentrate the bad stuff. For me that was a gallon per run (100+ gallon still), for you that will probably be a pint or two.Hebden wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 2:09 pmSo you literally go by taste to determine your takeoff rate? As in you'll take off the foreshots and then let the system take off a little faster and then obviously your well versed enough to know this almost second nature, but you'll taste away getting close to key stages and slow down approaching tails?NormandieStill wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 11:17 am A thermometer on the take-off from a reflux column is apparently useful (Not run one yet), but it's more a question of changing temperature rather than the actual temperature and the difference is (from memory) less than 0.5°C so you're going to need accuracy. But even there I question it. I can run my 2" CCVM at take-off rates from 100ml / hr to around 1.4L / hour and get azeo, but past a certain speed I'm just pushing tails into that remaining 5%. Not sure I'd see a temperature difference there, but the taste is a good indicator of what's going on.
I will go find these threads and do more homework thanks for the pointer:)NormandieStill wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 11:17 am No. No. No. You can't. You really need to go back and read the stuff on PIDs that's been bounced around in the past. The only use for temperature control might be if you wanted to hold your wash below boiling point in order to get some chemistry to happen (think rum ester production). Otherwise you are going to get the whole wash to boiling point, and then control the rate of boiling by controlling the energy input. You have no control over the boiling point, and you shouldn't be making cuts decisions based on temperature unless you running a recipe that you've run hundreds of times, with consistent results.
For a pot still, your input power determines output rate and purity. Lower power makes a cleaner product. I don’t have any experience in this as the only pot still runs I did were strip runs and they were run at full power.
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- Saltbush Bill
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Re: Help With Design
On your first runs go slowly all the way......collect in lots of small jars.......until you become familiar with the various smells / tastes you wont know if your dragging tails or smearing by running to fast......best to go slow n steady till you do learn those things.Hebden wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 2:09 pm So you literally go by taste to determine your takeoff rate? As in you'll take off the foreshots and then let the system take off a little faster and then obviously your well versed enough to know this almost second nature, but you'll taste away getting close to key stages and slow down approaching tails?
As Normandie has pointed out , its impossible to control the temp of the wash in the boiler.....you can only control how vigorous that boil is.
Think of boiling water, it boils at 100c.....you can not change that no matter how much or little heat you apply.
Your boiler is full of things that all have different boiling points.......the makeup of that wash is constantly changing as the lower boiling point components leave the still.
The contents of the boiler must be boiling at all times, you cant be cutting the power/ energy input willynilly as you want automatically or not, you need a constant steady boil.
The following link probably explains it more easily than I can.
http://www.kelleybarts.com/PhotoXfer/Re ... gMyth.html
Re: Help With Design
Well after not so much effort, PIDs are indeed to be put in the sin bin.
Straightforward power controller is where it's at. Any suggestions of tried anf tested equipment. I am in UK 240v mains here and using a 5500w element.
Only unit I can find in the UK is but it is not cheap. Surely there is a more affordable method out there.
https://www.heat-outdoors.co.uk/control ... id=1011718
eBay has these suspicious things:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/313924327061 ... %7Ciid%3A1
EDIT: Just seen your reply thanks SaltBush, it is bed time here, I will read the link tomorrow.
Straightforward power controller is where it's at. Any suggestions of tried anf tested equipment. I am in UK 240v mains here and using a 5500w element.
Only unit I can find in the UK is but it is not cheap. Surely there is a more affordable method out there.
https://www.heat-outdoors.co.uk/control ... id=1011718
eBay has these suspicious things:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/313924327061 ... %7Ciid%3A1
EDIT: Just seen your reply thanks SaltBush, it is bed time here, I will read the link tomorrow.
Saltbush Bill wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 3:07 pm The following link probably explains it more easily than I can.
http://www.kelleybarts.com/PhotoXfer/Re ... gMyth.html
- bluefish_dist
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Re: Help With Design
Search super simple controller. Easy to build, easy to run. All the parts can come off of eBay. $10 volt/amp/power meter, 500k potentiometer, resistance controlled scr, heat sink and a fan.Hebden wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 3:16 pm Well after not so much effort, PIDs are indeed to be put in the sin bin.
Straightforward power controller is where it's at. Any suggestions of tried anf tested equipment. I am in UK 240v mains here and using a 5500w element.
Only unit I can find in the UK is but it is not cheap. Surely there is a more affordable method out there.
https://www.heat-outdoors.co.uk/control ... id=1011718
eBay has these suspicious things:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/313924327061 ... %7Ciid%3A1
EDIT: Just seen your reply thanks SaltBush, it is bed time here, I will read the link tomorrow.
Saltbush Bill wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 3:07 pm The following link probably explains it more easily than I can.
http://www.kelleybarts.com/PhotoXfer/Re ... gMyth.html
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- Saltbush Bill
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Re: Help With Design
https://stilldragon.com/diy-controller-kit.html ............these are proven to work well and last well.
You do need to assemble them your self or have someone do it for you.
You do need to assemble them your self or have someone do it for you.
Re: Help With Design
Well the 2" ferrule saga continues, I'm battling on so as to Improve my skills as much as I need to make a modular nozzle for my shotgun.
What I found so far is ferrule OD = 50.8MM & UK 2" pipe ID is 51.6mm
So in my wisdom I've cut a shim fromm some 1.5mm walled 3" pipe. Shim is 3mm when complete circle. Added to 50.8mm ferrule = 53.8mm.
Then I'm going to try a 54mm female/female straight copper coupler which should take both the 54mm tube and 53.8mm ferrule with shim.
I was getting good steel solder flow with the Stay Bright 8 & Stay Clean liquid flux.
This gives me 100% confidence I can manage 3" column sections as it is a much better fit at 3" in UK.
I'm waiting on the 54mm coupler being delivered.
Anyone think this ferrule & shim solder will stay in place when adding the coupler?
Small gaps not filled perfectly here, should I re-solder that section before adding the coupler?
What I found so far is ferrule OD = 50.8MM & UK 2" pipe ID is 51.6mm
So in my wisdom I've cut a shim fromm some 1.5mm walled 3" pipe. Shim is 3mm when complete circle. Added to 50.8mm ferrule = 53.8mm.
Then I'm going to try a 54mm female/female straight copper coupler which should take both the 54mm tube and 53.8mm ferrule with shim.
I was getting good steel solder flow with the Stay Bright 8 & Stay Clean liquid flux.
This gives me 100% confidence I can manage 3" column sections as it is a much better fit at 3" in UK.
I'm waiting on the 54mm coupler being delivered.
Anyone think this ferrule & shim solder will stay in place when adding the coupler?
Small gaps not filled perfectly here, should I re-solder that section before adding the coupler?
- Salt Must Flow
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Re: Help With Design
Technically ONLY your leak test will determine whether you need to do anything. If it doesn't leak, it is fine.
Re: Help With Design
Thanks Salt, just had a play with the blow torch before bed, her indoors thinks I'm mental. Heat and no more solder along with a solder brush has blended the edges in lovely. I am starting to get a feel for this.Salt Must Flow wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 10:51 am Technically ONLY your leak test will determine whether you need to do anything. If it doesn't leak, it is fine.
Defo no leaks now. But when I add coupler, that will be a risk and melt the lot again. However I am getting the feel for taking the heat off whilst the goodies are at the correct temp to keep in melting solder into joints.
Like you say, leak test will determine the minimum standard.
Re: Help With Design
I am getting very close to having all my parts assembled and my welder welding my keg ferrules.
But I am still confused as to the calculation for Reflux. Would I be correct in thinking that the calculator in the following link is as good for the Reflux as it is for the Shotgun?
https://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.php/htm/calc ... d_calc.htm
If so, I am not sure how I can attain (or anyone) a big enough reflux if this is correct.
I am convinved this is not a correct assumption of mine, so I recalculate thinking that once my wash is boiling, that I'll probably be using just ~3000w and not the full 5000w.
But even just 3000w of condensing requires 93" of condensing using 10mm pipe (i assume the calculator uses ID of pipe).
And coiling 93" of 10mm ID which is 12mm OD in UK seems a big task.
So I find this Reflux Calculator, but it may as well be written in Spanish:-
https://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.php/htm/calc ... x_calc.htm
Now I am not adverse to having a go and failing, but 12mm OD pipe is sturdy stuff. I can't imagine coiling 93" of 12mm. So I presume I must be wrong.
Otherwise, I would have seen lots of stupidly large condensers on this forum and I have not.
And so, you must be using a higher water flow to keep temps down I guess..., but how and where do I research how to size my RC for max refluxing with my given 5500w element?
Trust me I have searched, but every search involving the word "condenser" & "sizing" seems to bring up Liebigs or Shotguns.
Please can someone provide a link to coil sizing homework? Or a correct search term?
But I am still confused as to the calculation for Reflux. Would I be correct in thinking that the calculator in the following link is as good for the Reflux as it is for the Shotgun?
https://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.php/htm/calc ... d_calc.htm
If so, I am not sure how I can attain (or anyone) a big enough reflux if this is correct.
I am convinved this is not a correct assumption of mine, so I recalculate thinking that once my wash is boiling, that I'll probably be using just ~3000w and not the full 5000w.
But even just 3000w of condensing requires 93" of condensing using 10mm pipe (i assume the calculator uses ID of pipe).
And coiling 93" of 10mm ID which is 12mm OD in UK seems a big task.
So I find this Reflux Calculator, but it may as well be written in Spanish:-
https://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.php/htm/calc ... x_calc.htm
Now I am not adverse to having a go and failing, but 12mm OD pipe is sturdy stuff. I can't imagine coiling 93" of 12mm. So I presume I must be wrong.
Otherwise, I would have seen lots of stupidly large condensers on this forum and I have not.
And so, you must be using a higher water flow to keep temps down I guess..., but how and where do I research how to size my RC for max refluxing with my given 5500w element?
Trust me I have searched, but every search involving the word "condenser" & "sizing" seems to bring up Liebigs or Shotguns.
Please can someone provide a link to coil sizing homework? Or a correct search term?
- Salt Must Flow
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Re: Help With Design
When it comes to a simple double copper coil reflux condenser 3" diameter. Just remember that it doesn't have to knock down 100% of the power of your heating element. You don't necessarily run at 100% power at full reflux. I have a 5500W 240V heating element and my double coil is approx 9" tall. It has plenty of knockdown power. My last run was at 40% power and it handles it no problem.
You really don't have to think about the math when it comes to a reflux condenser. When I was planning for mine, people were saying 9" is even overkill. I'm glad I went with 9". I have no desire for less or longer. It's just fine. I honestly never bothered to test how much power it will handle. It just doesn't matter to me because there isn't a single instance I can think of where it would be helpful for me.
You really don't have to think about the math when it comes to a reflux condenser. When I was planning for mine, people were saying 9" is even overkill. I'm glad I went with 9". I have no desire for less or longer. It's just fine. I honestly never bothered to test how much power it will handle. It just doesn't matter to me because there isn't a single instance I can think of where it would be helpful for me.
Re: Help With Design
Hi again Salt,
Thanks for the advice.
Do you run a 3" column and what OD pipe have you double coiled?
Thanks for the advice.
Do you run a 3" column and what OD pipe have you double coiled?
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Re: Help With Design
Hebdon, one way to approach this would be to find someone who has the same input power, water source type, and style of condenser that you want and just buy/make one just like it? No math involved in that. And you may be surprised by how small they can be compared to some of the builds done.
We know you have a 5500w boiler.
What is your water source? (Unlimited supply at a consistent temp? Resivoir and recirculating pump system? Other?)
What kind of condenser do you want to build? Copper coil? CSST coil? Shotgun? Liebig? Thor’s hammer? Etc.
Otis
We know you have a 5500w boiler.
What is your water source? (Unlimited supply at a consistent temp? Resivoir and recirculating pump system? Other?)
What kind of condenser do you want to build? Copper coil? CSST coil? Shotgun? Liebig? Thor’s hammer? Etc.
Otis
Otis’ Pot and Thumper, Dimroth Condenser: Pot-n-Thumper/Dimroth
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Re: Help With Design
Hebden, here is a post I wanted to point you to earlier but it took a while to find.
Shadylane has a nice compact copper coil that knocks down well over 5500w and I love the simplicity of design. It’s the third post in the thread. Only about 9 winds of 1/4” copper and about 5” tall. viewtopic.php?f=87&t=74391.
I made a single copper coil just under a 3” diameter out of 3/8” copper, 8 winds, 6” tall and that knocks down 5500w with a flow just under 5 liters/minute. It is a dual coil build, but I ran each coil separately and give the flow and knockdown stats in the post. viewtopic.php?f=17&t=81513
Hope this helps. Otis
Shadylane has a nice compact copper coil that knocks down well over 5500w and I love the simplicity of design. It’s the third post in the thread. Only about 9 winds of 1/4” copper and about 5” tall. viewtopic.php?f=87&t=74391.
I made a single copper coil just under a 3” diameter out of 3/8” copper, 8 winds, 6” tall and that knocks down 5500w with a flow just under 5 liters/minute. It is a dual coil build, but I ran each coil separately and give the flow and knockdown stats in the post. viewtopic.php?f=17&t=81513
Hope this helps. Otis
Otis’ Pot and Thumper, Dimroth Condenser: Pot-n-Thumper/Dimroth
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- Saltbush Bill
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Re: Help With Design
Push that to one side ...its quite normal.
It takes time but yes ..it seems you are.
Re: Help With Design
Hi Otis,
Unlimied water source as here in UK I pay a set price for the year. As for condenser I was thinking a Reflux Coil mainly because I thought that was the done thing rather than me knowing for sure what's best.
However I never considered a Shotgun for top of column and Thor's Hammer may look a little odd.
One consideration is height, I am going to be struggling with a 2.5m ceiling height in the garage but until the Keg comes back from the welders, I do not know how much space I have for the RC. I estimate circa 6" meaning flow and return will have to come out of the side of any build, just as it does in your build.
I know I could build a 3" shotgun with materials on hand though, so that would save buying copper pipe as I have plenty of 22mm and 28mm available free.
Does anyone have ideas on shotgun efficiency if 3" tube x 6" tall and say 4 x 22/28mm pipes?
By the way, your build is a work of art, I am very impressed. I also note that in your thread you stated that "either coil" knocks down 5500w. So there is a data point I could use.
That says to me that unit in a 3" column may be able to cope also, although I would be usingthinner tube, thinner pipes and the same power.
Also, as I have not really looked into your design, at this stage I'd not know if I could fit everything onto & into to a 3" tube x 6" height RC if double coiled. It would be a big squeeze I guess.
If I cannot work out a RC that is limited to circa 6" height, the final option for unlimited height is the option to use my tall hallway which is circa 7.5m and has water and waste available. Just not sure how clean or safe it is just yet as I am still very much a novice.
Re: Help With Design
It certainly did help Otis,OtisT wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 3:47 pm Hebden, here is a post I wanted to point you to earlier but it took a while to find.
Shadylane has a nice compact copper coil that knocks down well over 5500w and I love the simplicity of design. It’s the third post in the thread. Only about 9 winds of 1/4” copper and about 5” tall. viewtopic.php?f=87&t=74391.
Hope this helps. Otis
Shadylane is one crazy inventor, love his work. Yes that looks like a very efficient coned coil too. I just read the entire thread and loved some of those designs.
It was interesting to see the following comment meaning too big a condenser can be an issue also:-
Still scratching my head a little, but this has given me loads to consider thank you:)30xs wrote: ↑Fri Aug 20, 2021 8:28 am What I took away was the more knockdown you have the harder it is to make small takeoff rate adjustments, even with a needle valve.
On a packed 4” column running 6,000 watts it may be ok, but still a bit touchy. Anything less and it needs to have less coils. I’m wondering if a pressure reducing valve on the water supply would make adjustments easier for lower wattage?
Re: Help With Design
Regards that thread Otis, I didn't want to hijack such a good thread but the following is great advice, however would you mind me asking just one more thing.OtisT wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 3:47 pm Shadylane has a nice compact copper coil that knocks down well over 5500w and I love the simplicity of design. It’s the third post in the thread. Only about 9 winds of 1/4” copper and about 5” tall. viewtopic.php?f=87&t=74391.
Yes I am making a reflux condernser, but if I was to make another product at a later date, would I ever need a pressure safetly valve on the keg?
I have a 1/2" BSP socket ready to weld to the keg in order to fit a safety valve to the keg. Is this valve unnessessary?
OtisT wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 4:35 pm Hebden
As a Reflux condenser, there is no need to connect anything to the top of that. Just leave an opening. This opening is necessary for many VM and LM columns so pressure does not build up in the system. As a reflux condenser, you want the cooling flow to be sufficient so vapor never passes the coils.
If you are just making a reflux coil, you don’t need the copper plate or ferrule on top. You could use just a copper tubing coil and two compression attached hose connectors (and maybe a compression fitting needle valve too) for water in/out. Just hang you coil inside with your copper tubing leads bent to hold the coil in place and bob’s your uncle.
Otis
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Re: Help With Design
Yes, my VM still is 3". I made my reflux condenser out of 5/16" OD copper tubing. I pinched one end shut and filled it with table salt prior to coiling to prevent kinks and flattening. It took most of a day or so for water pressure to dissolve and clear the salt. Be patient and the salt will clear out. I have since switched over to 1/4" polypropylene tubing for water lines so this is how I plumbed it. If I ever felt the need to make the plumbing simpler, I would have used 1/4" npt fittings so I didn't have to use bushings.
Last edited by Salt Must Flow on Thu Apr 07, 2022 7:37 am, edited 1 time in total.