THE SPP USAGE POST

Fittings, parrots, packing, tooling and so on.

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THE SPP USAGE POST

Post by Skál »

THIS THREAD IS DEDICATED TO THE USE OF SPP PACKING.(2" column hopefully).BEST TO FLOOD,TAKE OFF,POWER INPUT,COOLANT IN /OUT,HOW FAST IS CONSTANT AEZO extraction POSSIBLE (based on 50L still adjustments welcomed)

yeah....see how it goes,
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Re: THE SPP USAGE POST

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Skál wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 10:46 pm THIS THREAD IS DEDICATED TO THE USE OF SPP PACKING.(2" column hopefully).BEST TO FLOOD,TAKE OFF,POWER INPUT,COOLANT IN /OUT,HOW FAST IS CONSTANT AEZO extraction POSSIBLE (based on 50L still adjustments welcomed)

yeah....see how it goes,
Is your plan for this thread to be based on your own endeavors and results? If not, I wouldn’t expect you’ll find members willing to tell you how to run your rig.

If this is indeed your plan, I wish you the best of luck. For all the tips you might be looking for, the “SPP PACKING” thread is your gold source.
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Re: THE SPP USAGE POST

Post by bitter »

Once I get my 3" filled will have some data but every setup is different

1) SPP can be very different 2 different SSP in same still can act different
2) different still will work differently Diameter Height etc
3) Wash percent plays a roll on how things behave. 5% wash is going to be different than running a 10%
4) Power and how your running it will make a difference. You can run it like the pot scrubbers and it still does better ABV as more plates. But with the variances in stills and spp going to get differnt power numbers.

Odin posted some good number in the SPP thread its a long ready but lots of info there also Dad300 posted some info also

I will make a post when I get all 6L of SPP for my 3" Boka and figure things out Speed etc etc. With copper blocker took me some time to tweak things and get the right densty but over time I can produce very neutral tasteless stuff at 3 to 3.5 LPH and then slow down as later in the run. But I could do 95% at 5.x LPH but I could taste the difference and to me max speed is the clean speed. But higher was great from striping.
I'm hoping for 4 LPH set it and forget it maybe last little bit increase power to increase reflux ratio to keep clean whole run without much messing with it. Odin mentioned a couple time on 3" should do about 5.5 LPH

B
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Re: THE SPP USAGE POST

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bitter wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 4:39 pm Once I get my 3" filled will have some data but every setup is different

1) SPP can be very different 2 different SSP in same still can act different
2) different still will work differently Diameter Height etc
3) Wash percent plays a roll on how things behave. 5% wash is going to be different than running a 10%
4) Power and how your running it will make a difference. You can run it like the pot scrubbers and it still does better ABV as more plates. But with the variances in stills and spp going to get differnt power numbers.

Odin posted some good number in the SPP thread its a long ready but lots of info there also Dad300 posted some info also

I will make a post when I get all 6L of SPP for my 3" Boka and figure things out Speed etc etc. With copper blocker took me some time to tweak things and get the right densty but over time I can produce very neutral tasteless stuff at 3 to 3.5 LPH and then slow down as later in the run. But I could do 95% at 5.x LPH but I could taste the difference and to me max speed is the clean speed. But higher was great from striping.
I'm hoping for 4 LPH set it and forget it maybe last little bit increase power to increase reflux ratio to keep clean whole run without much messing with it. Odin mentioned a couple time on 3" should do about 5.5 LPH

B
bitter would you happen to have any power input data at those takeoff rates you wouldn't mind sharing?

A LOT of people post their takeoff rates, but most do not mention what I think is critical ... the power input. I've been fiddling a lot with my 3" VM with Lava Rock packing and it seems to me that slower is cleaner. That being said, it could depend on the power which would determine the amount of reflux.
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Re: THE SPP USAGE POST

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Salt Must Flow wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 5:17 pm bitter would you happen to have any power input data at those takeoff rates you wouldn't mind sharing?

A LOT of people post their takeoff rates, but most do not mention what I think is critical ... the power input. I've been fiddling a lot with my 3" VM with Lava Rock packing and it seems to me that slower is cleaner. That being said, it could depend on the power which would determine the amount of reflux.
With the copper packing I can estimate the power but no power/amp Meter only guesstimates

For 3 to 3.5 LPH I am guessing about 3000 to 3500W This was the sweet spot for supper clean 95% I did not have as much packing as I wanted Took a bunch of tweaking and runs to get the packing right couple extra wraps each time till was right. At this point if I added more power temp would rise .1 slightly and if I increase takeoff would rise also.. Was a fine line to the perfect setting and over time I had to gradually up power as run went on to keep the equilibrium and at the then takeoff was dropped to about 2 LPH for last few jars before tails kicked in. I am confident that the SPP will do at least this and less messing around to keep the run perfect. This the neutral at 40% had a slight sweet taste no other taste. Made for a perfect Gin.

For the 5.33-5.5 LPH I was running between 5000 and 5300 W was not wide open.. but close to it. was 94 to 94.5% Also was not perfectly clean

I expect the SPP will need close to full power so I have some CSST that I will make a more powerful condenser as my current 48" long piece is not enough for 5500W and I might in fast need 7000+ W for this 6mm SPP in my 3" DWV so abotu 77mm ID for the coulmn.

With SPP I am hoping to be able to run fast and still have more buffer to decrease fluctuations.. and in theory and reading it will do that in spades. I will be once I get all done and dialed in be posting. Also going to do some making pure whiskey as well as low on whiskey and I found it ages a couple months faster to smooth out than pot still mode.

The one thing I am not sure about is if I can leave the SPP for pot mode.. I did with the copper packing in the past and would take the foreshoot early heads off till almost clean before transitioning to pot mode. I'm very sensitive to heads so need things very clean. Love me some tails.. The making pure whiskey I have done a few times and was good.. So with SPP if can run at 4 LPH or faster will be darn nice to do there.

B
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Re: THE SPP USAGE POST

Post by Salt Must Flow »

bitter wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 4:50 am
Salt Must Flow wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 5:17 pm bitter would you happen to have any power input data at those takeoff rates you wouldn't mind sharing?

A LOT of people post their takeoff rates, but most do not mention what I think is critical ... the power input. I've been fiddling a lot with my 3" VM with Lava Rock packing and it seems to me that slower is cleaner. That being said, it could depend on the power which would determine the amount of reflux.
With the copper packing I can estimate the power but no power/amp Meter only guesstimates

For 3 to 3.5 LPH I am guessing about 3000 to 3500W This was the sweet spot for supper clean 95% I did not have as much packing as I wanted Took a bunch of tweaking and runs to get the packing right couple extra wraps each time till was right. At this point if I added more power temp would rise .1 slightly and if I increase takeoff would rise also.. Was a fine line to the perfect setting and over time I had to gradually up power as run went on to keep the equilibrium and at the then takeoff was dropped to about 2 LPH for last few jars before tails kicked in. I am confident that the SPP will do at least this and less messing around to keep the run perfect. This the neutral at 40% had a slight sweet taste no other taste. Made for a perfect Gin.

For the 5.33-5.5 LPH I was running between 5000 and 5300 W was not wide open.. but close to it. was 94 to 94.5% Also was not perfectly clean

I expect the SPP will need close to full power so I have some CSST that I will make a more powerful condenser as my current 48" long piece is not enough for 5500W and I might in fast need 7000+ W for this 6mm SPP in my 3" DWV so abotu 77mm ID for the coulmn.

With SPP I am hoping to be able to run fast and still have more buffer to decrease fluctuations.. and in theory and reading it will do that in spades. I will be once I get all done and dialed in be posting. Also going to do some making pure whiskey as well as low on whiskey and I found it ages a couple months faster to smooth out than pot still mode.

The one thing I am not sure about is if I can leave the SPP for pot mode.. I did with the copper packing in the past and would take the foreshoot early heads off till almost clean before transitioning to pot mode. I'm very sensitive to heads so need things very clean. Love me some tails.. The making pure whiskey I have done a few times and was good.. So with SPP if can run at 4 LPH or faster will be darn nice to do there.

B
It sounds like you might be pushing your power pretty high which tends to smear tails throughout the run. There is a vapor speed calculator and this topic has some very good info regarding vapor speed. Basically, a good speed range is 15-20 ft/sec. For my 3" VM column, 5500W element that is 31%-51% power 1700W-2800W. For instance at 40% power, that's 2200W. I get 3.3 lph at 97% ABV says my hydrometer at 60F. When I increase the takeoff rate much more, the ABV starts to drop 1%. I need to test stepping up the power, test different takeoff rates, test the ABV and smell/taste for tails.

Now I've never used SPP, but I have to imagine that the vapor speed rage still applies.

You can leave packing in the column in pot mode as long as you do not induce reflux (with a reflux condenser). I am also very sensitive to heads and I can tell very quickly if I put too much heads in my cut.
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Re: THE SPP USAGE POST

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Thanks for all your input guys, really enjoyable to read and sorry for late reply. As you mentioned BB44 , the original big SPP thread I scoured till my eyes bled when I first built my still and used SPP. I still read it often but I suppose my point was although it is FULL of information there never seemed to be definitive answer on how to run the stuff. More discussions on the SPP, opinions ,to etch or not to etch , can people make it at home etc. I'd say i have mine about 80% dialled in (perhaps over confident ,I don't know) but would be nice to hear others equalizing times,take off rates ,temps , level of flooding in fluid beds,boiler charge and abv etc. I'm not asking anyone to do anything , I'd be happy to do the practical but I'm not really sure how to present the data usefully in a simple fashion.Spreadsheet stuff is not my forte.

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Last edited by Skál on Wed Apr 20, 2022 8:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: THE SPP USAGE POST

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Just to add. When SPP was the new kid on the block Odins numbers for takeoff were kinda eye opening and for a while I tried to match them. I think 3L/ph was the most I've ever managed whilst being confident there wasn't a mess of entrainment coming out the other end,it just seemed TOO much from a 2". I think that was a feints run of approx 15l aezoish in a 50l boiler. With 120cm of SPP its rare I strip for vodkas,one run and done so don't do many large high abv runs to have data for that. Anyhow just in the middle of making a 60l wash now so should have some ammo for tests in a few days.
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Re: THE SPP USAGE POST

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Bitter, on your query on SPP I've run my Boka detuned (empty column) for whisky before. However on one occasion I did it with SPP in place but with only the 80cm section of my column used. Took fores and early heads out then shut down condenser coil,emptied column and ran as pot still. Seemed to work ok. My column is very well insulated though and the thermal mass of the SPP perhaps stops reflux if that makes sense? As a caveat I've ran like ...3 faux whiskey so I can't give great data on the quality. Tasted fine though :)

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Re: THE SPP USAGE POST

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Salt Must Flow wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 3:23 pm It sounds like you might be pushing your power pretty high which tends to smear tails throughout the run. There is a vapor speed calculator and this topic has some very good info regarding vapor speed. Basically, a good speed range is 15-20 ft/sec. For my 3" VM column, 5500W element that is 31%-51% power 1700W-2800W. For instance at 40% power, that's 2200W. I get 3.3 lph at 97% ABV says my hydrometer at 60F. When I increase the takeoff rate much more, the ABV starts to drop 1%. I need to test stepping up the power, test different takeoff rates, test the ABV and smell/taste for tails.

Now I've never used SPP, but I have to imagine that the vapor speed rage still applies.

You can leave packing in the column in pot mode as long as you do not induce reflux (with a reflux condenser). I am also very sensitive to heads and I can tell very quickly if I put too much heads in my cut.
Actually was not smearing with the 3 to 3.5 LPH the higher power was to ensure higher reflux ratio (was actually cleaner than at 2 LPH and much lower power). Took a lot of tweaking. The 3 to 3.5 LPH is very clean just slightly sweet and nothing else at 405 can be mistaken for water. 5.x LPH was not clean and just an experiment to see where and how far to push it.

Its a bit counter intuitive to increase power to cause the more redistillations and temp at top the column to drop. But this is depending on alot of factors what you run. took many times adding more packing to get the right density to be able to run the copper packing to the point was like you see similar to SPP its a fine line though and a balancing act. I could do it and keep in the sweet spot adding a bit more power as I went and slowing takeoff slowly part way through the run but took some practice SPP is suposed to be much more stable.. Don't know yet as not run with it yet have 3.5 L but need more for do cleanign runs and then sac run and then do a test run. But if you look at still it he had 2% in the boiler and things came off at just under 70% with the scrubbies and 86% with 8x8mm SPP that's a bit oversize for a smaller 2" column he was running. But as you can see still way better than scrubbies

B
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Re: THE SPP USAGE POST

Post by Salt Must Flow »

Skál wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 7:22 pm Thanks for all your input guys, really enjoyable to read and sorry for late reply. As you mentioned BB44 , the original big SPP thread I scoured till my eyes bled when I first built my still and used SPP. I still read it often but I suppose my point was although it is FULL of information there never seemed to be definitive answer on how to run the stuff. More discussions on the SPP, opinions ,to etch or not to etch , can people make it at home etc. I'd say i have mine about 80% dialled in (perhaps over confident ,I don't know) but would be nice to hear others equalizing times,take off rates ,temps , level of flooding in fluid beds,boiler charge and abv etc. I'm not asking anyone to do anything , I'd be happy to do the practical but I'm not really sure how to present the data usefully in a simple fashion.Spreadsheet stuff is not my forte.

Skál
The consensus is, do not etch the SPP.

As for equalizing/stabilizing the column, watch the vapor temp using a digital thermometer that reads 1/10th degree resolution. You'll quickly see that the temp stabilizes. I allow for more time for fractions to stack up in the column. Maybe 20 min or so with no real data to back it up. Start taking off very slow.

People make SPP at home all the time. Once they've made a good mandrel that produces the right SPP dimensions, many just make a bunch of long spirals then cut their SPP by hand. Hand cutting is time consuming. Proper wire size and proper SPP dimension is the goal.

You don't operate the still based on temp. For instance the vapor temp will be lower at first. As you start taking off foreshots, the temp will start to rise in 1/10th degrees. As heads is being removed it will rise a little bit as well. Next thing you know the temp doesn't change at all and throughout the rest of the run right up until tails. As soon as the temp starts to rise a couple 1/10th degrees and stays, you know you're into tails, switch out collection containers. Within minutes you are WELL into tails 206F and the run is over.
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Re: THE SPP USAGE POST

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Salt Must Flow wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 7:41 am

The consensus is, do not etch the SPP.

As for equalizing/stabilizing the column, watch the vapor temp using a digital thermometer that reads 1/10th degree resolution. You'll quickly see that the temp stabilizes. I allow for more time for fractions to stack up in the column. Maybe 20 min or so with no real data to back it up. Start taking off very slow.

People make SPP at home all the time. Once they've made a good mandrel that produces the right SPP dimensions, many just make a bunch of long spirals then cut their SPP by hand. Hand cutting is time consuming. Proper wire size and proper SPP dimension is the goal.

You don't operate the still based on temp. For instance the vapor temp will be lower at first. As you start taking off foreshots, the temp will start to rise in 1/10th degrees. As heads is being removed it will rise a little bit as well. Next thing you know the temp doesn't change at all and throughout the rest of the run right up until tails. As soon as the temp starts to rise a couple 1/10th degrees and stays, you know you're into tails, switch out collection containers. Within minutes you are WELL into tails 206F and the run is over.
Yeah you can not run by Temp but it can definitely help you figure out how to drive. I read a lot that SPP stack so fast you don't need the 30 to 60 minutes with other packing. We will see if things work in real life can read all you want you won't know till you do it. I find its counter intuitive that increase power can actually help things and make things cleaner but only to a point. Be interesting to soo how SPP is both similar and different than using copper blocker packing. some things will be the same I bet and others willl be different. I am betting SPP will be way more stable. Dad said was easy with less SPP than I will have that 4 LPH was easy to get and then slowed down some for last bit before tails for a boiler change. Odin did that on a 2" and more on a 3" Will be fun to me takoff speed at peak is interesting if stable but its more about making the cleanest at a good speed. If 4 LPH is its that will be fabulous. should be like 1.3M of 6mm SPP.. Only about 5L potential in 50L or 10% (for easy math.) So 45 to 60 heatup and some stabilization. Take heads and forshot slow.. then goto 4 LPH slowing and keep stable.. and then nonce 4L collected slow dow to say 2 LPH for last bit shodul make for a much faster run.

the other part I found very interesting was % take in the 70 some even say 80% I more often found I was way lower than that if I get 60 to 70% that be amazing also.. wil be a learning cure to learn to drive.. sac run I have 4L or 95% so set for that, just need rest the SPP and then vinager run, then sac and then testing. Sac run I will play some but won't drink a drop of that crap a lot of forshot and heads there.

Cuts always by taste and smell...

B
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Re: THE SPP USAGE POST

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Hey SMF.Thanks for reply.When I was mentioning etching etc I was referring to the content of the original larger post about SPP and its contents. Etching (from what I know) seems pointless with proper SPP medium sized appropriately for a column and causes excessive flooding ( thoughts for another thread might be etching SPP oversized for a smaller column ). When I started this post I'd drank a few ,in frame of mind there would be some simple equation to running the stuff. The more I think the more I question this...still type ,boiler size ,column height,heating method,abv of wash/mash, boiler charge, even...and I hate so say it without getting too technical , elevation.

I like to think I can understand most concepts in layman's terms...like to anyway.Is there a way to compare results of 2" or 3" columns adequately that its useful? Its the kind of thing (in my mind) that we would need some sort of professional to equate power input/vapour speed /cooling power into an equation. Obviously some kind of standard column height would be required to start with. No shade to everyone here's knowledge when I say "professional" but I mean for ALL the factors involved in the process and how they equate.

I checked Odins posts, doesn't seem to have been here for a couple of years. Shame as he was a free giver of knowledge concerning his business findings regarding SPP. He was actually here on my island I think a couple years ago to install one if his stills. Does anyone here still speak to him? When I started approx 2015 he was a REALLY generous contributer considering his findings were probably detrimental to his later business projects.

My current thoughts for some kind of equation.
1:need to find a standard comparison between 2" and 3" columns *given the SPP* is sized appropriately for both.
2:need to find a standard boiler size plus charge (although odins post about 'sideways boiler might cause discussion')
3:need to find a standard abv of charge.
4:need to find insulation of equipment, I'd imagine we all would have to do away with or keep to find a similar ambient temperature. I live on a rock in the north sea and it facking Baltic! Many of u septics are warm lucky lol
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Re: THE SPP USAGE POST

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Urgh now I think...are SPP size and column size proportionately equateable??
Starting to think this thread was an awful mistake!

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Also, just to make it clear I'm happy with how I run my SPP. My thoughts were 80% as I'd love to improve it. I think we all know flooding IS the key, pretty sure people know more. I'd like to find some sort of equation (roughly encompassing typical stills here ) that is accesable and useful to us all. (E.g.. I made a 50cm high 50mm reflux column with 50mm spp running at 2500W) can we aspire to finding a simple equation? Perhaps not...but the trying is the fun part no? No try,no fun,no happen,no man on moon.
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Re: THE SPP USAGE POST

Post by bitter »

Here are questions I have and hope to answer for the SPP I am having made

Still design. Wil be testing Boka/LM as that is what I have
-Mine is 3" but will do 2" also for data

There are some variable like boiler percent that will need to be thought about.

-Max speed at azeotrope
-Max Clean speed at azeotrope
-Cuts what percent is keeps. This would vary with the wash and each batch to an extent.
-Stability for whole run. this might be an issue as temp might start changing and an increasing power as you go or decrease takeoff might put back in a good state.
-What power does the column flood?
-What about running without reflux in pot mode does it work? Or cause unwanted reflux and loss of flavor?
-What about making Pure Whiskey (This should work but will cuts be less smearing and less flavorful product) I have made this before with copper packing a few times and it turned out well and added faster than pot mode.
-How many plates is my SPP? Not sure best way to test. It sounds like Odin did some were by changing amount of packing and still be able to just hit azeotrope your at about 15 plates. Then measure depths and divide by 15. Most I see is about 2.5 cm per plate.. some are better but depends

Update on my SPP have 3.5L made cut and ready.. Got the shipment of more wire so the rest will be made soon! Then I will do the cleaning runs and then start testing.

I am going to use Teddysad FFV for this as I typically get some the wheat/liquorish notes towards the tails and I want to use this to help see if anything is coming across a cleaner neutral recipe like Wineos would make possibly more neutral wash but I want something to gauge how well the SPP is doing at cleaning things up.. and a give setting. Maybe should do this with whiskey.. I will sorta as part of Making Pure whiskey.

B
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Re: THE SPP USAGE POST

Post by NZPete »

Hey bitter,

Best of luck with the experimenting! I have a 2" column packed with 5x5x0.5mm copper SPP. I have a about 150L of 10% ABV sugar wash to process at the moment so let me know if you'd like me to record some data and try out a few settings!
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Bitter thx for the reply, you've set out a lot of my questions in a far better manner than I did lol !

Cant write much just now but. 1 Cuts/keeps will be interesting to standardise as we all have different standards.
2 Boiler charge will have to be a standard as with a 20L 8%ish wash I find it hard to flood fully
without huge input of power so I'm guessing we should maybe try a charge containing at least 8L
of alcohol. 20ish L charge min I suppose.If we are averaging 100cm of SPP? Enough alcohol to fill
3 Re Your estimated plates question. Its been a few years since I did the numbers back about 2016
using all the knowledge Odin posted here. I can't even remember the posts or the references to
scientific studies he gave but I remember 2.3 or 3.2 cm theoretical plates with my SPP I bought
from the polish guy many bought from. Piotr Lipski ?

Again it's been years since I tried faux cereal whiskey but THINK mine came off at around 70 to 80% which given my earlier comments to your " running whiskey with SPP shows there is some reflux but with the thermal mass of the SPP it's not as much as we might imagine. Perhaps less flavorful but the " 1.5 method " rings a bell and I'm sure it was possible to to use smaller jars and add tails back. Anyhow , about to do some cereals with yellow angel so happy to help you with experiments.

For my sugar washes simplified 23L , 4kg sugar inverted, half teaspoon DAP, I throw in a hand full of raisins maybe 2 of porridge oats ,a few eggshells, backset and some old trub if I have to hand. Perhaps we are best to use a rough spirit run added to with water to keep things standard? Have to really given we need a boiler charge to fill a column fully eh?

SaltMF don't worry I've never ran my still by temp , just temp changes. I don't have a single thermometer that matches another! XD
However I do have 4 under the insulation of my column and id recommend it to anyone given they are about £1 each. For ME anyway , I find it really interesting to see the temp gradient and the fractioning progress in the column as the run goes on. Maybe not for everyone but having a rough image of the columns innards just seems to help me visualise things.

NZpete thanks for joining. If you'd be willing to join this proposed 'experiment' I'd be well pleased . Nice to have a fellow 2 incher XD

Which also reminds me of probably my most repeated quote and one I eternally wish I came up with ... " yeah its only 6 inches but...it smells like a foot"!

"Don't have time to write much" 30 mins later thanks again guys !
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Post by Skál »

Yeah another point. BTR and NZP can we all make a similar column size? I have a 40 cm and 80 cm section to my boka. Without fabrication unless it's convenient can we find common heights? 10cm being at a guess say 3/4 plates hypothetically if we can all do around 100 cm we should be good for comparison? If not please say.

NZC nice build thread btw. You've got an easy modular still there. I cant find the same picture now but the one I saw in the back of your motor you NEED to christen that boiler 'The Chook' surely!? XD *nope found the pick again!!! That's a fat fecking chook!*
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Not to derail but NZC and BTR. For both of you what are restrictions on organic materials entering your countries? I know NZ is hellish not sure on New Scotland ;D . How would top/famous distillery peat fare through customs? Just a quick Y/N Q unless pm lol.
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Re: THE SPP USAGE POST

Post by bitter »

NZPete wrote: Mon Apr 25, 2022 7:28 pm Hey bitter,

Best of luck with the experimenting! I have a 2" column packed with 5x5x0.5mm copper SPP. I have a about 150L of 10% ABV sugar wash to process at the moment so let me know if you'd like me to record some data and try out a few settings!
That would be great thanks!!!

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Re: THE SPP USAGE POST

Post by Salt Must Flow »

Skál wrote: Mon Apr 25, 2022 8:34 pm
SaltMF don't worry I've never ran my still by temp , just temp changes. I don't have a single thermometer that matches another! XD
However I do have 4 under the insulation of my column and id recommend it to anyone given they are about £1 each. For ME anyway , I find it really interesting to see the temp gradient and the fractioning progress in the column as the run goes on. Maybe not for everyone but having a rough image of the columns innards just seems to help me visualise things.
Thermometers don't bother me at all. I have a thermowell in my boiler, one in the vapor path in my pot head, one in the vapor takeoff in VM, one in the water outlet of my reflux condenser and one in the water outlet of my shotgun condenser.

I monitor heatup of the boiler at 100% power then move the probe about 1' up from the base of my column (between the insulation and the column). Once my alarm sounds off at 100F I reduce power and move the probe up to the vapor takeoff. Once the alarm sounds off at 100F I know the vapor reached the top of the column and is about to produce reflux. I do the same with my pot still to know what is happening and exactly when.

I adjust the water flow to my reflux condenser so temp stays within the temp range I feel comfortable with and set an alarm for 145F. Same for my shotgun condenser. Some say, "you don't need thermometers, just feel the water that comes out and feel for a temp gradient on the condensers". My tubes are stuck down a floor drain beneath a sink so it sucks to do that often. I don't have to worry about not having an adequate temp gradient because my water temp is automatically monitored resulting in an adequate temp gradient.

When people try to drive their still via temp, stepping temp up using a PID to control a reflux column or spirit runs on a pot still it makes my brain hurt for them :crazy:
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Re: THE SPP USAGE POST

Post by bitter »

Temp is good to have but don't do cuts by it (every setup is a bit different also).. It can let you know when your column is stacked also and if you applied too much power also if temp keeps rising... Its a tool just cuts should be done by smell taste feel, look etc.. On a reflux still once temp starts rising you know is pretty much done in most cases. But once jars aired out then you make cuts.... I eliminate a good number of jars just by smell and then taste to see were things will be. Can you run without a thermometer.. sure... For pot still temp means nothing much other than know when your done done..

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Re: THE SPP USAGE POST

Post by bunny »

bitter wrote: Mon Apr 25, 2022 4:12 am

Update on my SPP have 3.5L made cut and ready..


Have you considered taking a shot at Odin's method of determining your HETP on your SPP?
It's not particularly difficult to do especially if you have some relatively low quality 40% something you can part with to make the 10% solution for the boiler.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=63103
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=63103#p7705006

It might be nice to know just in case you should want to make it available to your buds. :D
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Re: THE SPP USAGE POST

Post by bitter »

bunny wrote: Thu Apr 28, 2022 11:07 am
bitter wrote: Mon Apr 25, 2022 4:12 am

Update on my SPP have 3.5L made cut and ready..


Have you considered taking a shot at Odin's method of determining your HETP on your SPP?
It's not particularly difficult to do especially if you have some relatively low quality 40% something you can part with to make the 10% solution for the boiler.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=63103
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=63103#p7705006

It might be nice to know just in case you should want to make it available to your buds. :D
Yeah I read that and was contemplating it.. First if finish cutting SPP and then cleaning runs..

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Re: THE SPP USAGE POST

Post by Skál »

Hey bitter, just finished running that 80ltr wash I had. First 40L reflux/strip as I can strip fast with my boka then added that to the second 40L and did a spirit run. Taking notes on 6 different thermometers around the still,output,abv,flooding if visible and if not "singing" in the column,coolant temp in/out, ambient temp and everything else I can think of every 5/10 mins.

Is there anything else you can think of worth measuring that's of use to you?

I could be wrong but I'm sure you asked earlier about equilibrium time? A few years ago I'd do the standard 30 mins or so but with my last 5 or 6 runs in starting to think that with my still (120cm SPP) there's almost no point OR alternately start taking off product the minute I see the thermometer at the bottom of my column drop by any amount. I'm pretty sure the top of the column is stacked and stable by then.

Since this thread I've been upping the power input each run to 2800kW max so far as I've been trying to focus on the performance and details which is about 2.3l p/h. I can push this still much further I know but will need to get a decent boiler charge or wait until I can add a decent feints charge. Hard to play when you've only maybe 6l of expected aezo. Feelings are 3L or up to maybe 3.5l p/h would be possible.

2 factors that are giving me trouble are i think I might need a better needle valve (I have those ones with the big red or blue powder coated/painted knobs) and when I built my controller I used a digital push button power controller inputs. It moves in a gradient of approx 200W (per click) and I feel an analogue job with a knob would be better. Also my coolant valves are tiny Chinese numbers that are kinda tricky to make tiny adjustments with. They serve me perfectly well but for any kind of analysis like this l might need some needle valves (currently tapping the tiny handles with my tasting spoon for minor adjustments! XD). You can probably see the items I mention if you look at my 'first build posts ' .

Anyhow ,got another 80l fermenting so should have some more results in a week. Would be good if you or others following this post have some ideas/requests etc of factors for me to document during a run.

Thanks chaps, Skál.


Also bunny thanks for those links! That's the post I mentioned but couldn't remember who or where the heck it was.Good job mate!

2nd Also, bitter is your home made SPP sized to your 3"? When I got mine the consensus was that SPP should imitate the diameter of the column it was to be used in. That's almost 10 years ago so things might have changed now. Are yours around 7mm diameter/length?

3rd Also, NZPETE . Not sure if you're running a Boka with similar height to mine but I'd love to hear your speed/power etc to make aezo (one you would be happy to drink) with your 10% wash from either a 20l or 40l charge. I'm pretty sure I make a drink at great speed from even a 20l wash with SPP but the speed SPP allows me to distill psychologically often taints it for me if that makes sense lol? 20l in,30 mins to heat wash,40 mins and all distilled. Seems too fast. Tastes fine but makes me question it eh?
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Re: THE SPP USAGE POST

Post by Skál »

Just a question guys. Is this post worth it to you too? I know there was Odins SPP post, a fantastic post that informed me enough to splash the cash for SPP for my first build. I found a lot of that post branched into comparisons with other reflux mediums, people's problems with SPP, where to buy, how to make, needle valve blockages etc etc. My hope for this post was to answer the (my back then) unanswered questions regarding how to run SPP most efficiently. Regardless of still if SPP is your ONLY reflux medium there must be some rough 'equation'. Some kind of definitive answer. I'm sure no one feels obligated to contribute but for those that have its appreciated and for anyone that hasn't but reads anyhow I'd humbly ask you to track some of your parameters mentioned here with similar washes and write them down. You might like to add one day and it can only help the cause.You never know, you might even discover something new!

Thanks Skál
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Re: THE SPP USAGE POST

Post by Skál »

Took a jump back to Odins original SPP post. I was drunk when I commented so never checked but just saw there were a couple of guys who commented my SPP was oversized? I read for about 6 months before I built my still and spoke to 2 or 3 slavic/eastern European companies. The consensus was that SPP dimensions were matched to column size and can't find any literature to the contrary. Searched everywhere I can think of now, everywhere, SPP efficiency/diameter/circumference/wire diameter is directly linked to column diameter sooooo why is it too big? SPP dimension is as crucial as vapour speed in a condenser or take off in a reflux column....it'll work but not optimally, but it'll work but...5mm IS optimised for a 51'mm column. I also saw your SPP post there bitter and all kudos for DIY! No automatic cutter on your machine, I used to be a silversmith and we had something called Gatortape it might save your poor hecking fingers lol! Back on topic...is a smaller SPP now recommended in comparison to column size.

If my SPP IS too big pls educate me.No point me wasting my time documenting out of date data and giving newcomers baws for their jaws.

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Re: THE SPP USAGE POST

Post by NZPete »

Hey Skal, I'm running the same as you - 5x5mm in a 51mm column. Wire size 0.5mm. As per the general consensus as J read it. Seems to work fine so I reckon we will good
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Re: THE SPP USAGE POST

Post by bitter »

Update, I finished cutting by hand our SPP for my 3" Boka. I now have 5.5 Liters of SPP. Second run is even better than the first and a tiny but smaller.

Can't want to do cleaning runs and start getting some results!

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