Slow Proofing

[Stonecutter]

Interesting read I stumbled upon while researching saponification.

https://vinepair.com/articles/slow-proofing-whiskey/

[Metalking00]

Thats an interesting bit about oak aging the proofing water to get the more water soluble stuff into it before adding it to the whiskey.

[jonnys_spirit]

That is interesting. I guess adding a certain amount of whiskey to the water proofs it up to prevent infection in the barrel. Maybe to 10%abv?

[Metalking00]

The little bit ive found in the last few minutes of looking says between 10 and 30%, and is then aged for years.

[Metalking00]

Heres an excerpt from a post i found on a bourbon forum that appears to be from the same Nancy thats referenced in the article.

So to answer the 10 million dollar question that's on everyone's mind as to why this slow proofing process is done in the barrel, instead of waiting until all the whiskey is dumped first? Or why not just dump barrels of different proofs together to achieve something similar, as I believe someone asked? Well, as I've probably discussed at one time or another on here, alcohol pulls out very different notes than water does out of the barrel. At higher strengths, more of the alcohol-soluble notes such as terpenes, with their resin/pine type of aromas and aromatic aldehydes (think of vanillin from the lignin structure) are pulled from the oak, whereas at lower proofs, more of the water-soluble notes are pulled from the cask. These are typically the caramelized wood sugars (i.e., zylose, rhamnose, arabinose, etc.) that come about through the charring and/or toasting process.



Thus, when you add water slowly to the barrel over time, you get ALL of these desirable elements, both alcohol and water soluble, from each barrel into the whiskey. And in the meantime, with the Slow Reduction process in the cask, you are also creating more roundness and finesse on the palate. In a very hot and humid climate like where the Still Austin warehouses are (about an hour or so outside of Austin, in a very rural area), things tend to progress much more quickly than they do in the traditional Kentucky or Indiana, so even though the Bourbon spends a few months at certain proofs (i.e., between 118 and 115, etc.), it is really amazing how just that small amount of time can make a HUGE difference in the barrel.

[Metalking00]

Another excerpt from the same thread, and same Nancy.

Petite Eau is essentially water that is fortified between 15 to 30% ABV and is aged for many, many years. It is sometimes used instead of water in the barrel to bottle reduction process in order to give more caramelized wood sugars, roundness, and richness to a blend.

Heres the thread im reading:
https://www.straightbourbon.com/communi ... reduction/

[Stonecutter]

So what about using water stilled through your last run as a proof-er??
my novice input would be only what I was fed, and which subsequently proves to be true time and again is that, time is the hardest thing to put in a bottle.

[8Ball]

So what about using water stilled through your last run as a proof-er??
my novice input would be only what I was fed, and which subsequently proves to be true time and again is that, time is the hardest thing to put in a bottle.

+1
I’ve used water collected from my stripping run to proof down my heavy peated/smoked all malt whiskey to aging strength.

[Dancing4dan]

So what about using water stilled through your last run as a proof-er??
my novice input would be only what I was fed, and which subsequently proves to be true time and again is that, time is the hardest thing to put in a bottle.

+1
I’ve used water collected from my stripping run to proof down my heavy peated/smoked all malt whiskey to aging strength.

Hey 8Ball, I have read about guys using “sweet water” collected from a run to proof down.

Is that what you are referring to?

Would like to know more about this idea and how to collect sweet water.

[Yummyrum]

This technique, called slow proofing, slow reduction, or slow cutting, avoids the more dramatic chemical reactions that take place when water and alcohol meet, which heat up the solution and damage subtle flavor compounds. After all the effort distillers expend to create those flavors earlier in the production process, a less careful proofing down can seem like a waste. “If it’s an aggressive, big addition of water, it can destroy some of the really delicate, beautiful esters that we spent days developing during fermentation. So we didn’t want to mask or lose any of that,” says Amanda Beckwith, lead blender at Virginia Distillery Co.

Fair crack of the whip , I call marketing BS
Sure , adding water to Alc increases the temp for a bit , but Jez , call it 10° . Shit …. Best we all store our booze in a temp controlled room least we destroy subtle flavours .
Not sure about your house , but mine goes from 2°C to about 47°C …. Hate to know how many subtle flavours I've killed .

Give me a break

[Saltbush Bill]

Its hardly a new idea, but according to the first link it is.
“Nobody’s even heard of it outside of the brandy world.”
Published: December 13, 2021

I can remember people like Googe and Fullysilenced bringing this subject up 6 or 7 years ago......the posts will still be around with a bit of searching.

[zapata]

Yummy, I agree and I don't think it's the temp change, but proofing can absolutely "destroy" flavors. The book Whisky Science has probably the most approachable yet detailed and referenced discussion on this I've seen.

[8Ball]

So what about using water stilled through your last run as a proof-er??
my novice input would be only what I was fed, and which subsequently proves to be true time and again is that, time is the hardest thing to put in a bottle.

+1
I’ve used water collected from my stripping run to proof down my heavy peated/smoked all malt whiskey to aging strength.

Hey 8Ball, I have read about guys using “sweet water” collected from a run to proof down.

Is that what you are referring to?

Would like to know more about this idea and how to collect sweet water.

Here’s what I have in my notes from my 100% AG malt whiskey runs:

Save a quart of pot-ale (water) at the end of each strip. Anything after 208F vapor temp will do.


So my strips consist of 3.5 gallons wort in a 5G copper pot. I collect exactly 1G of low wines, then collect the next quart as pot-ale. It can be used to lower the abv of your spirit charge and/or to proof down your hearts cut to aging strength. I’ve used it once to proof down some 6 month old to drinking strength just to get a preview of what it will be like when it matures. YMMV.

[Stonecutter]

I really like this technique. I’ve thought about using sweet water to use in the mash as well.

Proofing slowly sounds legitimate, however, I really wouldn’t feel comfortable proofing lower than 50% in my barrel.

[Dancing4dan]

So what about using water stilled through your last run as a proof-er??
my novice input would be only what I was fed, and which subsequently proves to be true time and again is that, time is the hardest thing to put in a bottle.

+1
I’ve used water collected from my stripping run to proof down my heavy peated/smoked all malt whiskey to aging strength.

Hey 8Ball, I have read about guys using “sweet water” collected from a run to proof down.

Is that what you are referring to?

Would like to know more about this idea and how to collect sweet water.

Here’s what I have in my notes from my 100% AG malt whiskey runs:

Save a quart of pot-ale (water) at the end of each strip. Anything after 208F vapor temp will do.


So my strips consist of 3.5 gallons wort in a 5G copper pot. I collect exactly 1G of low wines, then collect the next quart as pot-ale. It can be used to lower the abv of your spirit charge and/or to proof down your hearts cut to aging strength. I’ve used it once to proof down some 6 month old to drinking strength just to get a preview of what it will be like when it matures. YMMV.

Thanks!

[zapata]

Save a quart of pot-ale (water) at the end of each strip. Anything after 208F vapor temp will do.


So my strips consist of 3.5 gallons wort in a 5G copper pot. I collect exactly 1G of low wines, then collect the next quart as pot-ale.

Is there a reason you call it pot ale instead of sweet water? Pot ale is the well established name in Scotland for the liquid left in the still after stripping. It's what bourbon distillers call backset and what rum distillers call dunder. Commercially it is concentrated into pot ale syrup which is used for various kinds of feed products and sold by the ton. If you are collecting a distillate you might want to call it something less confusing.

[8Ball]

Save a quart of pot-ale (water) at the end of each strip. Anything after 208F vapor temp will do.


So my strips consist of 3.5 gallons wort in a 5G copper pot. I collect exactly 1G of low wines, then collect the next quart as pot-ale.

Is there a reason you call it pot ale instead of sweet water? Pot ale is the well established name in Scotland for the liquid left in the still after stripping. It's what bourbon distillers call backset and what rum distillers call dunder. Commercially it is concentrated into pot ale syrup which is used for various kinds of feed products and sold by the ton. If you are collecting a distillate you might want to call it something less confusing.

Ok. Disregard pot ale everybody. Its 8Ball’s 5th Quart that is stripped out of a 3-1/2 gallon charge of fermented 100% all malt wort using a 5 gallon copper pot.

[ShineonCrazyDiamond]

... or commonly known as sweet water.

[googe]

Its hardly a new idea, but according to the first link it is.
“Nobody’s even heard of it outside of the brandy world.”
Published: December 13, 2021

I can remember people like Googe and Fullysilenced bringing this subject up 6 or 7 years ago......the posts will still be around with a bit of searching.

you got a bloody good memory sbb lol.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=57813&p=7466079&hil ... w#p7466079

[bunny]

Is it reasonable to deduce, that if there is less destruction of flavors by slow proofing, that very fast proofing might be a benefit to a neutral?