Pumping hot wort THROUGH the chiller…?

[PeatyKeats]

I’ve read differing takes on this practice from a sanitary aspect.

I have 2 copper immersion chillers with 1/2 NPT connections for hoses that withstand up to 200 degrees. I am looking to make larger batches (I bought two 55 gallon plastic drums), and ferment off-grain for a peated scotch style single malt.
My plan is to use a chugged pump, connected to the copper immersion chillers which will be in 25 gallon cooler filled with ice water.
Picture a 15 gallon mash tun filled with 13 gallons of wort at 145 degrees being pumped out through 2 copper wort chillers submerged in ice water (45 degrees), and then out in to a large fermenter.
In my test runs, I’ve gotten 160 degree water down to 80 degrees in a matter of minutes with this process. At worst I can recycle the wort one time around which will help bring down the temp.

I’m curious about thoughts on this process. I hope I’ve been succinct.
Thanks for any feedback.

[Dathhu]

It should work just fine, it's just a matter of making sure it's clean and sanitary enough.

I'd want to pump some sort of cleaning solution that's safe with copper through the chillers before and after use, to make sure there's nothing nasty growing in them.

Another option would be a counterflow chiller. Think like a Liebig, but coiled. Pump coolant in one direction, hot wort in the other. Check beer brewing sites for more info.

[Demy]

You could do the opposite, that is, dip your coil into the wort, inside the coil you circulate cold water, I guess your problem is using 2 coils together .... lately for my beer (homebrewing) I'm experimenting with another system ... a copper coil immersed in almost frozen water connected to the water mains, the outgoing water will be very cold and enters the second stainless steel coil immersed in the must. This is because in the summer the mains water is hot so I lower the temperature first.

[Olmatemick]

I work in oil and gas an have pretty well unlimited access to liquid nitrogen. Its crossed my mind a few times to make a 4" ln2 probe to cool wort

[Yummyrum]

I work in oil and gas an have pretty well unlimited access to liquid nitrogen.

Maaaaaate ,where’d you say you lived again

[Olmatemick]

I work in oil and gas an have pretty well unlimited access to liquid nitrogen.

Maaaaaate ,where’d you say you lived again

Hahaha QLD SBB said you were keen on bundy rum. Ive had some success with overly burnt bourbon chips. Still in experimentation, but ive duplicated it a couple times. Cant stand bundy personally, im a kiwi... but ive tested it on rum pigs and they agree, sweet bundy, like small batch

[Ben]

Google counterflow chiller.

For sanitation, if your at or above bacteria kill temp just recirc your hot runnings through for a few minutes, give a good rinse when your done to get sugars out, make sure its fully drained to prevent mold growth.

[PeatyKeats]

It should work just fine, it's just a matter of making sure it's clean and sanitary enough.

I'd want to pump some sort of cleaning solution that's safe with copper through the chillers before and after use, to make sure there's nothing nasty growing in them.

Another option would be a counterflow chiller. Think like a Liebig, but coiled. Pump coolant in one direction, hot wort in the other. Check beer brewing sites for more info.

I’d happily use a counter flow chiller, but already have these two wort chillers, and don’t want to spend the money. Thanks for the reply!

[PeatyKeats]

You could do the opposite, that is, dip your coil into the wort, inside the coil you circulate cold water, I guess your problem is using 2 coils together .... lately for my beer (homebrewing) I'm experimenting with another system ... a copper coil immersed in almost frozen water connected to the water mains, the outgoing water will be very cold and enters the second stainless steel coil immersed in the must. This is because in the summer the mains water is hot so I lower the temperature first.

I normally do that, and it works very well. The issue is the large amount of wort, but more importantly, bringing 30-50 gallons of wort from outside where I brew, down to the inside basement where I ferment. The other issue is conserving water. Over the winter, I successfully recycled 60 gallons of water for all distillations (10 strips, 2 spirit), and want to continue that.
Thanks for the reply.

[PeatyKeats]

Google counterflow chiller.

For sanitation, if your at or above bacteria kill temp just recirc your hot runnings through for a few minutes, give a good rinse when your done to get sugars out, make sure its fully drained to prevent mold growth.

Great thanks. An idea I had was to run 180+ water through the worst chillers for a while followed by some starsan before brewing.

[stillanoob]

Google counterflow chiller.

For sanitation, if your at or above bacteria kill temp just recirc your hot runnings through for a few minutes, give a good rinse when your done to get sugars out, make sure its fully drained to prevent mold growth.

Great thanks. An idea I had was to run 180+ water through the worst chillers for a while followed by some starsan before brewing.

I used to use a counter flow chiller. Basically the same as what you want to do, pumping wort through the copper. After a while I noticed an off taste and tracked it down to the chiller. I had been using Star San after each use but it didn't get the job done. I switched to BLC, beer line cleaner and it cleared it right up. What came out of my chiller after a soak was NASTY! I think it is better on attacking proteins and would recommend you try it:

https://www.northernbrewer.com/products ... ne-cleaner

[still_stirrin]

+1 Mars.

I like the beer line cleaner too, through my wort and beer lines. It’s a mild caustic that cleans well, breaking down the beer stone while reducing the “sticky stuff”. Just have to flush out good with hot water afterwards.
ss

[bluefish_dist]

I always used a counter flow chiller. Tried plates and they plugged quickly. For cleaning rinse with water and if concerned about bacteria, do like brewers do and leave it filled with B Brite or other cleaner.

[Twisted Brick]

If you pump hot wort through your copper chiller, the conduction of heat out of your coil will quickly heat the ice water surrounding it until its warm, reducing transfer efficiency. You'll need to agitate your chiller up and down to overcome this. A poly barrel will effectively insulate your mash, and with as much thermal mass as you have, this could take a while. To save on ice (and time) you might consider running the first coil in water, and the second coil in ice.

[PeatyKeats]

Google counterflow chiller.

For sanitation, if your at or above bacteria kill temp just recirc your hot runnings through for a few minutes, give a good rinse when your done to get sugars out, make sure its fully drained to prevent mold growth.

Great thanks. An idea I had was to run 180+ water through the worst chillers for a while followed by some starsan before brewing.

I used to use a counter flow chiller. Basically the same as what you want to do, pumping wort through the copper. After a while I noticed an off taste and tracked it down to the chiller. I had been using Star San after each use but it didn't get the job done. I switched to BLC, beer line cleaner and it cleared it right up. What came out of my chiller after a soak was NASTY! I think it is better on attacking proteins and would recommend you try it:

https://www.northernbrewer.com/products ... ne-cleaner

Thank you. I really appreciate it. I’m moving to larger ferments and don’t want to throw away money.

[PeatyKeats]

If you pump hot wort through your copper chiller, the conduction of heat out of your coil will quickly heat the ice water surrounding it until its warm, reducing transfer efficiency. You'll need to agitate your chiller up and down to overcome this. A poly barrel will effectively insulate your mash, and with as much thermal mass as you have, this could take a while. To save on ice (and time) you might consider running the first coil in water, and the second coil in ice.

Thanks. That’s basically what I’m doing, so it’s nice to hear others having the same idea. I’ve done a bunch of tests on hot water, and I’ve been able drop 140 degree temps down to 60 in a few minutes. Thanks again.