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Did a mash today and ran into some lower than expected cook temps.

100% corn mash
50 lb fine corn meal
25 gallons water

Mashed in when water boiling. Temp fell once mixed in to around 180F. Over the hour lost a lot of heat and ended up around 168F.

Added a little cold water to get temp down to 155F before adding alpha amylase at 0.3 tsp per gallon rate.

I’m concerned that the cook temp wasn’t high enough. But the mash was too thick to heat in the kettle without scorching. What are your thoughts?

JB_12 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 24, 2022 5:48 pm. What are your thoughts?

High temperature enzymes. Stir the pudding. Bain marie heat input.

Will it be fermentable you think?

If you are concerned about scorching corn there are a few things you can do. Corn can be tough to work with sometimes.

1) If you need to add heat after you added corn to hot water. Use a BIG drill with a mixer and stir like a bandit as you continue to apply heat. Some sacrificial amylase will help as it will thin the mixture making it easier to stir. The amylase will thin the mixture but quickly denature. When you are confident the corn is hydrated, chill as needed to correct temp to add your enzymes as per protocol, stir every 15 - 20 minutes. Do a iodine starch test and when your corn is converted chill to pitching temperature.

Or

2) Boil water, add corn, stir in some sacrificial amylase to thin it out and insulate the pot to keep the temperature high to hydrate the corn for 2-3 Hours. Stir every 30 minutes. When you are confident the corn is hydrated, chill as needed to correct temp for your enzymes and add them as per protocol, stir every 15 - 20 minutes. Do an iodine starch test and when your corn is converted chill to pitching temperature.

The sacrificial amylase really helps the ability to work the corn as you are hydrating it.

Follow instructions for PH.

3) Heat or add water to corn to get to 35*c. Pitch Yellow Label Yeast. Drink some beer while it ferments.

I’m biased toward option 3 for now.

still_stirrin wrote: ↑Sun Jul 24, 2022 6:23 pm

JB_12 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 24, 2022 5:48 pm. What are your thoughts?

High temperature enzymes. Stir the pudding. Bain marie heat input.

What SS said to get through where you are at now.

I use fine ground corn and oatmeal
Boil water
Add oatmeak
Add corn
Temp will be close to 80°C
Use paint stirrer
Cover for 3 to 6 hours
Pitch yeast
Og around 1.07

Because it is fine ground hydrates easily so no worries

Thank you all for the feedback. Any recommendations on a high temp enzyme? I currently use alpha amylase at 155F.

i don't now where you live, but guessing from your imperial measurements (usa?), Sebstar HTL seems to be readily available in your neck of the woods.

JB_12 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 25, 2022 7:12 am Thank you all for the feedback. Any recommendations on a high temp enzyme? I currently use alpha amylase at 155F.

Here: https://ferm-solutions.net/product-category/enzymes/

If you search, you’ll find a lot of discussion using liquid enzymes. My suggestion, get some of both of these liquid enzymes, especially for corn.
ss

A little late to the party, but insulation is your friend!

I do the same big batch method of dumping the boiling water in, then add and stir in the grains. I also settle at about 180-185. The key is that I then wrap my fermenter in a bunch of blankets to hold the heat for a few hours, occasionally stirring. In my case I then cool and add malted barley, not enzymes, but its the same.

Insulation is your friend!

K

If you ferment on the grain, this may be a solution. I went this way because I cook in a 15gal SS pot on a propane burner, so scorching can be a problem. Use a pot with a basket - mine has three little feet to keep it about 1" above the bottom of the pot. Cook your corn in a bag - I like to get the water surrounding the basket boiling for about 20 minutes. Even though everyone says you don't have to boil it, I do. I like to cook things so I don't mind and it has worked well. Like I said, If you ferment on the grain, after the boil time, empty the bag back into the hot water. I know it may feel like an extra step to some, but it works for me - I use a little stewpot with a handle to transfer it into another bucket so I don't have to lift the heavy sack out of the water until it is light enough to handle.

As mentioned earlier, the SebStar HTL is the bomb, and I have added a little sacrificial early to keep things loose, but didn't the last run. You can add that in at 190. When the temp gets to around 148, I add SebStar GL as well as a little powdered alpha and just this weekend got to 1.075.

You can do it with low temp enzymes too. The trick is to add some sacrificial enzymes to the corn and water at a lower temperature before boiling. If the water is too hot it’ll just gel up. Start cool and add the enzymes and water. Then heat and stir until you get where you want. This way it will never thicken. You likely will have to add some more enzymes as the temperature comes down.

kmmuellr wrote: ↑Fri Jul 29, 2022 10:50 am A little late to the party, but insulation is your friend!

I do the same big batch method of dumping the boiling water in, then add and stir in the grains. I also settle at about 180-185. The key is that I then wrap my fermenter in a bunch of blankets to hold the heat for a few hours, occasionally stirring. In my case I then cool and add malted barley, not enzymes, but its the same.

Insulation is your friend!

K

Yup.

I mash in a 60L plastic drum. I also have a 150L trash bin that the drum fits inside. I put a towel in the bottom of the rubbish bin, then place the drum inside the bin. Then I place towels around the drum. Add corn and boiling water. Then put the lid on the drum and a couple more towels on top. Hits mid to high 80C after dough in and stays above 80C for at least a couple of hours - and that's in the shed at 10-15C ambient.

Could use something like a cardboard box that fridges are sold in to hold the towels if your fermenter is large. I think that's what SoCD does?

If using enzymes and fine ground corn meal, i bring 20 L water to boil. Turn off heat. Add 7 kgs cornmeal with paint stick running to keep dough balls from forming.
Goes thick like mortar
But temp is then at at alpha level (80°C)
Add enzymes and stir some more until thin soup.
Cover overnight.
Add gluco enzymes
Let sit for 3 to 4 hours
Works fantastically