Rye Fermentation Stall

Production methods from starch to sugars.

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7bruno7
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Re: Rye Fermentation Stall

Post by 7bruno7 »

Twisted Brick wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 9:57 am
StillerBoy wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:38 am
Not just the GL, but also use the TL, that's the one that remove the ray mash's snot gel from it, and they do provide cleaner finish, and clear lots better also..

The TL is the one to use went mashing with rye, and I've never even tried to doing one without it, especially after reading all the issues people has stated with mashing rye..

Mars
FYI: I'm finding it difficult to source TL in small quantities, but, there is also VISCOSEB L.

https://moonshinedistiller.com/viscoseb ... me-master/
Twisted Brick,
I experienced the exact same situation with the SEBflo TL…difficult to get in small quantities if you’re not a vendor or big operator. I ordered some ViscoSEB L this morning as a hopefully substitute for TL. I tried to find a facts sheet for the ViscoSEB L online, but came up short... Anybody have any experience using ViscoSEB L??
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Re: Rye Fermentation Stall

Post by 7bruno7 »

StillerBoy wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:38 am
Ben wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:04 am but as mentioned above sebamyl GL could take it further, or just some powdered enzyme.
Not just the GL, but also use the TL, that's the one that remove the ray mash's snot gel from it, and they do provide cleaner finish, and clear lots better also..

I've done many raw and malted raw 80% bills, with never an issue with mashing or fermenting.. but I mill the grains to a coarse flour, mash it at 180*F with the HTL, plus the other enzymes at their temp addition, pitch and ferment at 85*F, and they all finish dry within 4 - 5 days..

Not fermenting at a stable temp is the major cause of a fermentation taking for ever to finish, especially if the temp drop down below the pitching temp, even by only a degree or so, somehow some things happen and the yeast never behavior the same after even it the temp is raised, and that has been my experience a cross the board, be sugar washes or AG..

Pitching at 95*F, knowing that the temp will raise to 100 or more, is just disrespect for the yeast by not providing a healthy environment..

The TL is the one to use went mashing with rye, and I've never even tried to doing one without it, especially after reading all the issues people has stated with mashing rye..

Mars
Hey All,
Thanks for all the info that everyone provided the last couple/few days!! Very interesting and very helpful!

I checked the fermenter earlier this morning with the digital refractometer, like the one in the pic below, and the gravity was still 1.025, but when I checked the gravity with the glass hydrometer, the gravity was only 1.008. So, apparently my digital refractometer may not be correct, even though it was calibrated to 1.00 with water. Has anyone else experienced the cheapo digital refractometers from Amazon being super inaccurate??

I’m assuming the reading on the glass hydrometer is correct... I screened the grain pieces out of the liquid in the fermenter, and I know it is a rye ferment, but the liquid from the fermenter was very very viscous. To make sure I was getting the best reading possible with the hydrometer, I pushed the hydrometer all the way down to where it was almost covered in liquid, and it would ultimately raise up and float at 1.008, then I pulled the hydrometer up out of the liquid several inches, let it drop back down into the liquid, and it would ultimately sink down and float at 1.008 as well. This rye mash certainly has had some interesting twists and turns…lol.
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Re: Rye Fermentation Stall

Post by StillerBoy »

Twisted Brick wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 9:57 am I'm finding it difficult to source TL in small quantities,
TB.. Going to have to teach you how to research.. here a link to some and there's others.. click "select" and it shows up..

https://www.ebay.com/itm/195279255937

Mars
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Re: Rye Fermentation Stall

Post by NormandieStill »

7bruno7 wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 11:07 am I checked the fermenter earlier this morning with the digital refractometer, like the one in the pic below, and the gravity was still 1.025, but when I checked the gravity with the glass hydrometer, the gravity was only 1.008. So, apparently my digital refractometer may not be correct, even though it was calibrated to 1.00 with water. Has anyone else experienced the cheapo digital refractometers from Amazon being super inaccurate??
The maths and online calculator link you were given earlier are necessary to transform your refractometer reading into a valid fg reading. You'll need your og reading to be able to calculate it. The alcohol screws with the refractivity of the solution. Without correction all your refractometer can tell you is whether or not the gravity is still changing.
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Re: Rye Fermentation Stall

Post by Twisted Brick »

StillerBoy wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 1:23 pm
TB.. Going to have to teach you how to research.. here a link to some and there's others.. click "select" and it shows up..

Mars
I'm all ears, Mars, so please do! I admit to only do a 'quick and easy' look into TL. It's not as easy as before, just ordering a 3-pack of enzymes from Pint. My TL is so old now I doubt it's even viable anymore.
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contrahead
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Re: Rye Fermentation Stall

Post by contrahead »

7bruno7 wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 11:07 am
I checked the fermenter earlier this morning with the digital refractometer, like the one in the pic below, and the gravity was still 1.025, but when I checked the gravity with the glass hydrometer, the gravity was only 1.008. So, apparently my digital refractometer may not be correct, even though it was calibrated to 1.00 with water. Has anyone else experienced the cheapo digital refractometers from Amazon being super inaccurate??
I think what you have pictured there is an (analog) optical refractometer - not a digital one.
My refractometer (looks like yours) arrived in the mail the day before yesterday. Yesterday afternoon I tried to read the ABV of a commercial beer that was labeled as 5.5%. My (freshly calibrated) refractometer gave me a weak 3.3% measurement instead.
Scale2.jpg
I spent most of this morning reading about refractometers. My optical instrument has a Brix scale and an ABV scale (labeled “Approximate Value Degree Alcohol”). Other similar looking refractometers might have a Brix and a specific gravity scale, instead.

Over and over it was repeated in various other forums, that SG and ABV scales in such instruments are crap (for SG readings / not Brix). The instrument does not read density (specific gravity). These scales are estimations and are notoriously inaccurate. Don't use them. Use only the Brix scale. And then later rely upon a hydrometer, not the refractometer, once fermentation has begun.

Conclusion: Refractometers are really useful for reading sugar levels in something like a ripe grape. But not once fermentation begins and alcohol begins to replace sugar.

Pure water = 0 deg Brix
25 deg Brix = 25 grams sugar / 100 grams water
The target range for harvesting white grapes is between 19 – 25 deg Brix (11 - 13.3% ABV)
The target range for harvesting red grapes is between 22 – 26 deg Brix (12 -14.3% ABV)
A Brix reading can be multiplied by 0.55, to roughly estimate the ABV of a dry wine.

< for the OP of this thread>

Your not making wine, but look down at the bottom half of this page, to notice what is said about temperature shifts, rehydration of dry yeast in water (not must or wort) and stirring in more oxygen.
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7bruno7
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Re: Rye Fermentation Stall

Post by 7bruno7 »

NormandieStill wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 5:01 pm
7bruno7 wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 11:07 am I checked the fermenter earlier this morning with the digital refractometer, like the one in the pic below, and the gravity was still 1.025, but when I checked the gravity with the glass hydrometer, the gravity was only 1.008. So, apparently my digital refractometer may not be correct, even though it was calibrated to 1.00 with water. Has anyone else experienced the cheapo digital refractometers from Amazon being super inaccurate??
The maths and online calculator link you were given earlier are necessary to transform your refractometer reading into a valid fg reading. You'll need your og reading to be able to calculate it. The alcohol screws with the refractivity of the solution. Without correction all your refractometer can tell you is whether or not the gravity is still changing.
contrahead,
You're right, I have an analog gravity refractometer...not sure why I was stating digital... Thanks for the additional info with regards to temperature shifts, yeast hydration, and oxidation.

Anyway, I am certainly a dumbass and need to do a little more research per looking more closely at the webpage link that 8Ball sent…thought all that was required to use the gravity refractometer was to just put the mash solution on the display window and read it…like I said I’m a dumbass…lol. I'm assuming 8Ball's info applies to both analog and digital gravity refractometers??

I also have an analog alcohol refractometer that looks almost identical to the one in the pic that I posted… Any special rituals and/or processes that I need to know about to operate that…lol??

Although, after reading about the research contrahead did with regards to the analog refractometers, I may not want to use them at all for fear of them being unreliable...
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Ben
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Re: Rye Fermentation Stall

Post by Ben »

7bruno7 wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 12:41 pm

I also have an analog alcohol refractometer that looks almost identical to the one in the pic that I posted… Any special rituals and/or processes that I need to know about to operate that…lol??
Just make sure you set the focus for your eye, calibrate it using the little flathead screw on the side with some distilled water, clean and dry before storing and don't scratch the lens. They are dead simple to use and pretty reliable, plus they are less prone to breakage than a hydrometer. You seem to have already discovered the shortcomings.
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Re: Rye Fermentation Stall

Post by HDNB »

just banged out a few more malt rye mashes.
0.25kg / L (2.08 lbs/gallon)
add at room temp, heat to 150. used about 1/4 dose htl
mixed for an hour
added about 1/2 dose gluco enzyme
mixed for an hour
cooled to 85, pitched yeast

108, down to 102 in 14 hours. down to 101 in 36 hours, done. still a bit slimey but looks good.

added some sebflo at the start of 1 to see if difference , maybe 1/2 as slimey, but still slimey

added some sebflo at the start and then after cooling (with yeast) of 1 to see if difference , maybe 1/2 as slimey, but still slimey

went cooler on the pitch for these, finished faster than any previous ferment. used two different brands of dady. all 4 finished at the same speed....i'm sold on an 85* pitch temp.

i know the enzymes were overkill, but the malt is expensive and i want all i can get.
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Ben
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Re: Rye Fermentation Stall

Post by Ben »

Nice to hear about the sebflo working, rye can be a real boogery mess.

Have you tried a Glucan rest? If so how did it compare to sebflo?
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Re: Rye Fermentation Stall

Post by HDNB »

started at room temp on all and i make it take about 1/2 hr to get through 110-120, so i call that a "rest" i wouldn't actually call the sebflo "working"...it's maybe 1/2 as viscous...so like as thick as 0 weight oil instead of 40 weight for example. and while it is heavy sugar water thick, it's not a clear beer...more "creamy"

still slimy, just not awful. i'd say a fella still have to avoid a direct fired electric element, one way or the other.

on the grain or no, still use a steamer or ban marie or thumper or something to avoid the inevitable scorch an element would give.
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