First sacrificial run

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spurgeon
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First sacrificial run

Post by spurgeon »

While waiting for a sugar wash to finish up, I got impatient and figured I'd use a 1.75l of vodka I found for $9 and use it for my first sacrificial run.
I also thought it'd be good practice to do a small volume that low and slow like a spirit run, practice making cuts to better understand fractions, manage the heat based on the drip, and learn to use my shiny new alcometer.
I should note that previous to this, in my new SS still I ran a water run at full heat and a second run of 50/50 vinegar/water at full heat.

First off, I wanted to ask if is this a useful a sacrificial run to clean up the still? Anything I'm missing for prepping this still (and my brain) for making runs for real? Should I have used more vodka?

Measured the "40 proof" vodka and found it was actually 38%ABV.
I diluted the vodka down to what I'd might end up with a wash, 10%ABV (a little more dilute than I intended, but in the ballpark).

I kept it at a fast drip, dropped heat if it started to stream, and increased heat if it slowed down below to about 1 drop/sec.
For giggles, I crushed up some juniper, dropped it in star san, and then added it into my column.
I took 100ml cuts, recorded vapor temp and the ABV after I pulled each cut:
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There's definitely differences in the aroma and appeal of each. I still have the cuts but haven't tasted them because...new still.

So many noob questions.
1. How'd I do? Any general advice? If I mixed all those cuts together, I'd have around 45%ABV even with those low tails, so that seems good.
2. If I was diluting a wash, of course there'd be methanol in the foreshot(s). Given I started with a commerical spirit, is there any methanol? I'm asking just because the aroma is pretty harsh, almost like nail polish.
3. How would you fraction these if this was a spirit run? What would you look for? I realize this is the art of distilling--I guess I'm asking for any general advice here. If this was a spirit run, I'd expect Foreshots (cut 1, 2), Heads (3-4), Hearts (5-8), Tails (9-13). Maybe 2 is a head.
4. The ABV seems lower than what I would have expected for the heads. Is that normal?
5. If those numbers were from a real stripping run and my goal is to make as neutral a spirt as I could, what do you think would be be the best blend to do a spirit run? Keep the hearts aside, mix the heads & tails, diluted, and re-run?
6. I get what a parrot does functionally (I don't have one), but I'm not sure I understand what value it has it if you're using a alcometer? Is it just a time saver or is there some sort of other value?
7. What's the right term for the leftover liquid in the boiler in this case? It measured 2%ABV, so I figure I did a reasonable job. The glossary suggests it'd be called backset, but would you still call it backset if you've done a spirit run after doing one or more stripping runs?

Thanks in advice--this forum is so valuable and huge. I did my best to search for my own answers, so hopefully not asking questions frequently answered elsewhere.
Dougmatt
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Re: First sacrificial run

Post by Dougmatt »

Hi spurgeon, I’m still comparitively new to distilling myself (about 1 year, 20+ runs) , but will take a swag at a few of these.

To :ewink: answer your unnumbered question first, yes that should be enough volume.

1. How’d you do: You show temps alongside your readings. Did you temp correct the readings?
2. Unless you know the providence of the original product, I always assume there can be methanol in there. That said, probably not much If any. Just all nasty commercial
Vodka heads.
3. Until you know your still AND your wash / mash better I suggest you do this by taste versus percentages. Fores is based on how much wash and your fores cut is likely high. I toss the first 100ml on everything (strip and spirit) but this has been debated in several threads here so time to read up and decide for your self :ewink:
4. You can find a chart of abv in to output on here somewhere. Not in a place to find it. It is lower than would get with a 38% wash, but I have a small slobber box that acts like a tiny thumper so find the Chart to compare. Also again, did you temp correct (although that would make it lower).
5. Taste it to make the blend that you want…. As for a “feints run” which is what we call your good heads and tails together and run it, look that up too and see if it’s worth it to you. Many people get good product, I add like feints to the next strip of the same. Everybody is different.
6.the parrot gives you a continuous look at the abv and uses that alcometer floating in it to do that :shifty: .
7. I call it trash…. I use backset (general
Term) / dunder (rum) from stripping runs only. That has dead boiled yeast for nutrients etc. the stuff in your pot or post spirit run is weed killer imo. :ebiggrin:

Hope this helps and think about using the Google search on terms. It will open a world of discovery for you!
I just read an article about the dangers of drinking that scared the crap out of me.

That’s it. No more reading!
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Saltbush Bill
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Re: First sacrificial run

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Will answer just a couple .....others will be along I'm sure.
spurgeon wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 6:47 am Measured the "40 proof" vodka and found it was actually 38%ABV.
You just found that your Alcometer is wrong or that you need to temp correct the reading.
Any commercial distillery who mis-labled their product would be in deep deep shit......at least in this country.
spurgeon wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 6:47 am I crushed up some juniper, dropped it in star san, and then added it into my column.
I'll just ask why ?......something you saw on a Youtube channel maybe ?
spurgeon wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 6:47 am If I was diluting a wash, of course there'd be methanol in the foreshot(s). Given I started with a commerical spirit, is there any methanol? I'm asking just because the aroma is pretty harsh, almost like nail polish.
Where do we start here ?.....man you have a lot of reading to do.....Methanol doesnt just come out at the beginning of the run.....its spread right through. Commercial distilleries are not as carefull as we are with cuts ......thats why your vodka fores still smell like Nail Polish remover. For what its worth that nail polish smell isnt methanol either......Methanol has very little to no taste.....and no smell.......I can tell you that with certainty because Ive smelled and tasted pure Lab grade methanol.
spurgeon wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 6:47 am I get what a parrot does functionally (I don't have one), but I'm not sure I understand what value it has it if you're using a alcometer? Is it just a time saver or is there some sort of other value?
Some people like them and claim they are useful, many don't use them including myself, comes down to personal preference......just a distraction disguised as eye candy imo. Another thing for the still salesmen to sell.
spurgeon wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 6:47 am 7. What's the right term for the leftover liquid in the boiler in this case? It measured 2%ABV, so I figure I did a reasonable job. The glossary suggests it'd be called backset, but would you still call it backset if you've done a spirit run after doing one or more stripping runs?
Dunder / Backset / Hot slops.
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NZChris
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Re: First sacrificial run

Post by NZChris »

spurgeon wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 6:47 am7. What's the right term for the leftover liquid in the boiler in this case? It measured 2%ABV, so I figure I did a reasonable job. The glossary suggests it'd be called backset, but would you still call it backset if you've done a spirit run after doing one or more stripping runs?
Good question. It may have more than one answer as different industries and countries may have their own names for it, but none of them are making the sugar washes that you are asking about.

Not many home distillers recycle backset from their spirit runs and I've only recently started experimenting with it myself.
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NZChris
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Re: First sacrificial run

Post by NZChris »

I run my sacrificial runs hard and fast to clean the crap out of the still, it's not a practice run.
spurgeon
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Re: First sacrificial run

Post by spurgeon »

Well, unfortunately, i lost a bunch of your helpful replies in the forum crash and restore.

For the record, I was asking about the quantity of methanol that may have ended up in my foreshots specifically from distilling diluted commercial vodka based on my sensing an unusually sharp almost nail polish aroma.
Someone mentioned that methanol has zero aroma and zero taste and that it couldn't be methanol, but other congeners could easily get distilled out because commercial distilleries aren't that careful with their cuts.

When I speculated it may be acetone or something similar, someone chimed in about the fact that I put juniper in the vapor path (as an experiment to better understand how the aromas would come across and vary) and pointed out that this could be part of what I was noticing.

Since I still had all the cuts in jars, I found the foreshots that have been sitting for several days, watered them down to about 40%ABV, and by doing so it was very clear that the sharp aroma I was noticing was the juniper. Still other aromas and likely some acetone, but it's clearly the juniper that I was picking up on in the fores. Worth noting that I found it a less desirable aroma than the juniper aromas in any of the other cuts.

Thanks again for all the advice.
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Ben
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Re: First sacrificial run

Post by Ben »

Maybe leave the juniper out for now if its causing you confusion with acetone and acetaldehyde. Set yourself up for success.
:)
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