No experience distilling, wanting to do first build

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Heavy
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No experience distilling, wanting to do first build

Post by Heavy »

Been reading about distilling now looking to try it out by building my first still. I have a buddy that's owned stills before. He's going to work with me on this project. I've done wine and mead in 5gal demijohns before but that's about all I've done with making alcohol in the past.


Goals:
I want to build a still that's efficient time, money, and cleaning wise. About 13 gallons in capacity, electric, and can be easily used/converted for both stripping and getting to ~190.


Current equipment and plan:
No current still. My buddy that I'll be doing this with has had stills before and made/modified a couple from copper years ago, has none currently though. He knows more than I do about it but it was mostly just doing hobby grade stuff as well.

I was going to buy some crap, but was shown enough quick enough to want to avoid some of that.

Now I'm thinking (open to suggestions) I'd like to make one mostly out of stainless tube w/ ferrule ends and clamps:
A 3” packed column about 3-4ft, coiled copper in the tube for reflux w/ copper scrubber packing, condenser w/ copper coil in stainless tube packed w copper scrubbers, temp gauges+ports. A 13-15 gal pot w/ electric heat element in side bulkheads and 3” ferrule ez bulkhead in lid. And get a shorter 3" column to run it as pot still. ~5500 watt element. Maybe an auto pressure relief on the boiler for safety?


Additional information:
Probably do this in the garage, got extra space for it there and ceilings are extra high. Sub panel there also makes it easy to do 240v.
Don't want to waste too much money or time. Would be nice if total expenses to start with a DIY still was in the $600-800 range, $1000max.

Ugly sketchy sketch since I like seeing them when other people post plans to forums:
IMG_20220909_154920 b - Copy.jpg
Looking for all the good advice I can get!

Currently I'm wondering if my condenser plan is good or if I should do the worm or something else. Generally anything critical analysis is probably going to help me out.
Last edited by Heavy on Fri Sep 09, 2022 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: No experience distilling, wanting to do first build

Post by shadylane »

Heavy wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 12:58 pm
Now I'm thinking (open to suggestions) I'd like to make one mostly out of stainless tube w/ ferrule ends and clamps:
A sanitary spool for a column is a good idea. :thumbup:
Here's an idea for the dimroth style defleg that will fit in the end of a spool and clamp.
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Re: No experience distilling, wanting to do first build

Post by Oatmeal »

Have you looked at a ccvm option probably least expensive multi-purpose option right off the bat? Coil below the tee kinda looks like a cooling managment (CM) style? It's a bit muddled.

If you build modular, you can use the tee section right on top of your boiler (keg's probably cheapest) to use as a pot still.

3" is good.

Copper coil is a pain to wind corrugated stainless gas pipe is real easy.

Look at the difference between lm, cm, and cm to gain some clarity.

Don't need pressure relief valve because column should also be built to be open to atmosphere!

Have at it and have fun.
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Re: No experience distilling, wanting to do first build

Post by shadylane »

I guess the first question is are you going to build or by the boiler?
The second question is do you have access to a torch and welder?
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Re: No experience distilling, wanting to do first build

Post by Heavy »

shadylane wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 2:56 pm A sanitary spool for a column is a good idea. :thumbup:
Here's an idea for the dimroth style defleg that will fit in the end of a spool and clamp.
That looks like what I was thinking about, seems simple to pull off? I was going to do a longer coil but that's the plan. I was thinking this would qualify as a CM still. Loose plan is to use chest freezer to generate cool/cold water and change flow rate as needed; use lots of thermometers.

Going mostly for neutral spirits, at least to start.
Oatmeal wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 3:04 pm Have you looked at a ccvm option probably least expensive multi-purpose option right off the bat? Coil below the tee kinda looks like a cooling managment (CM) style? It's a bit muddled.

If you build modular, you can use the tee section right on top of your boiler (keg's probably cheapest) to use as a pot still.

3" is good.

Copper coil is a pain to wind corrugated stainless gas pipe is real easy.

Look at the difference between lm, cm, and cm to gain some clarity.

Don't need pressure relief valve because column should also be built to be open to atmosphere!

Have at it and have fun.
Have just searched for it, I found this picture:
kimbodious wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 2:24 pm Final version of the CCVM
9C58B759-E3AF-443D-84C3-8828571CA98E.jpeg
It looks similar to what I was going to build. If it is condenser controlled does that mean that there's no cooling coil at the top of the column controlling reflux, just the condenser doing the trick? I think I understand the physics of CM stills, not so sure about CCVM, I'll have to read more on them. Is there something that makes such a design preferable to CM? The pot still version of this setup would be CCVM (take out the column and top coil), I am not sure?

That saves me a sanitary spool! Saving money already.

I have seen people have trouble with kinking copper tube, if stainless is easier and works as well as copper I'll do that and just use copper packing mesh. I was going to get one of those handheld bending tools and/or a 2" dowel and hoped that using 3" column would give me some extra room to coil in. I hear I want smaller than 1/4" tubing for the coil?

I used this link: https://learntomoonshine.com/what-is-a- ... umn-still/
I'll try to get a better handle on what going on in each CM VM LM CCVM.

I was worried about if it clogged or flooded, I was even thinking about clamping a parrot on after the PC (the clamp on parrot I found does have a barbed port to allow pressure escape at the top 2" adapter to the clamp). Just seemed like a safety part that might be worth the $. If I keep an eye on temps I guess there should not be a chance for real pressure safety problems?

Already fun! Can't wait to have at it!
shadylane wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 3:07 pm I guess the first question is are you going to build or by the boiler?
The second question is do you have access to a torch and welder?
Was planning to build the boiler. Was thinking of using a large pot and adding clamps and a cut silicone gasket, but need to research and see if there are better options? If the price was right I'd buy one, saw a 13gal with all ports I'd think I'd want for ~$440, take seemed pretty pricey to me and the budget I mentioned though...

Small propane torch is all I have, never soldered copper before myself, my buddy has though. I don't weld but I'm pretty sure I'm a friend of friends to ~10 welders. I know nothing about welding stainless and am not sure how many of them would be able to, I'll check into that. What are some places where welds are most useful? the boiler? the plates for the coils? anything else that I shouldn't just gasket?
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Re: No experience distilling, wanting to do first build

Post by shadylane »

Given your situation.
Here's an option I'd recommend for the boiler. Not necessarily this one, it's just an example.
Spend a little bit of money and get a "plug and play" boiler.

Last edited by shadylane on Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: No experience distilling, wanting to do first build

Post by Sporacle »

Have a search for Kimbodious and look at his modular SS CCVM.
My keg uses the existing 2 inch for the column attachment and I have 2 welded one inch NPT sockets for my elements. Welding stainless is as simple as a SS rod in a arc welder or as complex as a high end TIG with a pedal control, either way as long as it doesn't leak its all good (obviously passivation and the like)
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Re: No experience distilling, wanting to do first build

Post by Salt Must Flow »

Heavy, do happen to have an air compressor, angle grinder, hand files, drill and basic hand tools like that? Do you know someone who does? If not then that might put you out of building a lot yourself unless you intend to buy some basic tools to do the job. With some basic tools I was able to build everything myself except I would take parts to a local guy to get TIG welded.

If you are considering building things yourself, shop around for a 15.5 gal keg, keep your eyes out for one and you will find one. If you can get a keg for a decent price, you wouldn't believe how cheap it would be to convert it into a boiler. Kegs are tough as nails and extremely high quality. You don't need all the bells & whistles immediately. You'll get everything you want over time.
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Re: No experience distilling, wanting to do first build

Post by Yummyrum »

I agree a keg is a good boiler . I have used the same two kegs , a 50litre and an 80 litre for years with intention of adding drains , fill holes and wider still mount , but in reality none of it is necessary and I still haven't found the need to .

A simple keg will do the job . Sure it's a bit more work to fill and empty , but it's a great starting point .
While TIG welded element sockets might be nice , there is no need for that level of strength and simple Lead free soft soldering will work absolutely fine . In fact that applies to any ports you may add .

Regarding the CM and the chest freezer idea.
You may find this tricky . Depending on how chill you start with , you'll need a super fine adjustment needle valve to control flow through the CM condenser ( Deflagmator)
As the water heats up , you will be needing to keep adjusting it throughout the run . The chest freezer won't be able to keep up with the rate of change in temp .

You'll be better off getting a larger storage tank and just running room temp water through it .A 1000 litre IBC is a good size for most setups . Sure, you will still need to tweak it throughout run but nowhere as often .
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Re: No experience distilling, wanting to do first build

Post by Heavy »

shadylane wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:10 pm Given your situation.
Here's an option I'd recommend for the boiler. Not necessarily this one, it's just an example.
Spend a little bit of money and get a "plug and play" boiler.
https://www.amazon.com/Moonshine-Still ... 99&sr=8-23
That looks like it would do the thing! Probably close to my costs and time savings would be nice. 2" though, how much slower is that going to be vs 3"? I'll have to wind coils tighter too :think: .

I've wondered occasionally if it's ok to go from the 2" port an use an adapter to have the column at 3"? Not worth it? Problems? Does it work?
Looking at this: https://brewhaus.com/still-run-time-comparisons.html Now I'm like it's 4" or nothing!
Sporacle wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:12 pm Have a search for Kimbodious and look at his modular SS CCVM.
My keg uses the existing 2 inch for the column attachment and I have 2 welded one inch NPT sockets for my elements. Welding stainless is as simple as a SS rod in a arc welder or as complex as a high end TIG with a pedal control, either way as long as it doesn't leak its all good (obviously passivation and the like)
viewtopic.php?t=62101&hilit=CCVM
That does look a lot like the sort of options I'd want! Anything specific I should focus in on?

I'll ask around about who does welding and pick a good one to talk to if I can. Seeing what the parts cost is to build vs buy - time, buying doesn't sound terrible and that's probably within budget ($600-800 total ideally). I can probably trade easily for some welding though so...I could go either way.
Salt Must Flow wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 5:02 pm Heavy, do happen to have an air compressor, angle grinder, hand files, drill and basic hand tools like that? Do you know someone who does? If not then that might put you out of building a lot yourself unless you intend to buy some basic tools to do the job. With some basic tools I was able to build everything myself except I would take parts to a local guy to get TIG welded.

If you are considering building things yourself, shop around for a 15.5 gal keg, keep your eyes out for one and you will find one. If you can get a keg for a decent price, you wouldn't believe how cheap it would be to convert it into a boiler. Kegs are tough as nails and extremely high quality. You don't need all the bells & whistles immediately. You'll get everything you want over time.
My air compressor broke but I'm meaning to buy another, all the air chucks at the gas stations seem to be missing. No angle grinder, could borrow/buy one though. Yes drills and a healthy amount of tools, even some brand new hole saws looking for a purpose.

I'm moderately comfortable building things and doing electrical stuff.

About what should I look to pay for a 15.5 keg? I haven't learned enough about using beer kegs to know anything about using them, but I'm game. I've seen pictures that make them look totally reasonable. My concerns were getting bulkheads in without welding, which is fixed by figuring out a welder (or soldering). And the other concern was cleaning since it looks like power spraying the thing out using the 2" column connection, how bad is cleaning a keg in practice vs a larger opening using clamps?
Yummyrum wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 8:10 pm I agree a keg is a good boiler . I have used the same two kegs , a 50litre and an 80 litre for years with intention of adding drains , fill holes and wider still mount , but in reality none of it is necessary and I still haven't found the need to .

A simple keg will do the job . Sure it's a bit more work to fill and empty , but it's a great starting point .
While TIG welded element sockets might be nice , there is no need for that level of strength and simple Lead free soft soldering will work absolutely fine . In fact that applies to any ports you may add .

Regarding the CM and the chest freezer idea.
You may find this tricky . Depending on how chill you start with , you'll need a super fine adjustment needle valve to control flow through the CM condenser ( Deflagmator)
As the water heats up , you will be needing to keep adjusting it throughout the run . The chest freezer won't be able to keep up with the rate of change in temp .

You'll be better off getting a larger storage tank and just running room temp water through it .A 1000 litre IBC is a good size for most setups . Sure, you will still need to tweak it throughout run but nowhere as often .
That gives me confidence to try making a boiler with a keg. Are they all 2" on top? I am not too sure how commercial kegs work I've only ever messed with a corny keg, I should look into that a bit. How wide of a column can I run on a keg? Very tempting, is that a ebay/facebook-marketplace item? I might be able to find them locally...I'll ask around a bit too, friends with friends of the local miller lite distributor's delivery guys.
That's good to hear I wasn't sure about solder for all the ports.

For the chest freezer I was going to fill a commando tote with water and freeze it. I just went and tested size with a tote, I could get two 17 gallon totes in there stacked at once and swap between them mid run (or probably better rig them to both concurrently run with a second pump), does that seem like enough to do it? I'd need to leave some room for liquid water but not a ton, I've got a bunch of those little green pumps that look sort of like a tiny sump pump. Leaving it all in the freezer next to the still.
417aGSou69L._SY90_.jpg
417aGSou69L._SY90_.jpg (2.69 KiB) Viewed 1830 times
I could buy 4-5 more 50 gallon blue barrels and link them up somehow if that's the better way. I already have one of those around looking for a purpose as well.

Is there a generally recommended coolant water temp range to use, is close to freezing too cold to work well? I guess the individual condenser/dephlegmator plays into it, surface area, column size probably too, but best guess at a good range?
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Re: No experience distilling, wanting to do first build

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Heavy wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 9:47 pm That does look a lot like the sort of options I'd want! Anything specific I should focus in on?
I'm pretty sure Kimbos still is all modular so no welding required at all, Yummys advice on the keg is spot on, fill ports, viewing windows, thermo ports and drains are nice but you can make do with the 2 inch opening and a single or two NPT sockets for elements.

My 2 inch CCVM is on a 50L keg with 2 by 2000w elements, I have one SCR so I can control all the way to 4000w.
I have a blank cap for the T so I can run it as a pot.
Output, it will strip at about 8L per hour.
95abv as a CCVM at 1L per hour and about 2L per hour on a pot spirit run.
Cooling was via a inch over 3/4 liebig around 900mm long and it was fine, probably getting close to its limit on strip runs (but that was due to a low volume submersibe pump) I now have a 4 tube shotty and it is massive overkill.
Water wise I have a 1000L at ambient IBC or is it ICB anyhoo... with a submersible pond pump, have done 3 strip runs in a day with no issues :D
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Re: No experience distilling, wanting to do first build

Post by Yummyrum »

I agree with Sporicles numbers .
He , like I mentioned , recommends a 1000 litre IBC .So if you have 4-5 50 gal blue barrels , that would be about perfect .
As a rule of thumb , it will take about 2x the amount of water to cool a stripping run . So say you have 12 gal in the keg , it will take about 24 gal of water to cool it . By the end of the run , that water will be bloody hot . So obviously a bit more is better .

When you are doing a reflux run , you will use a lot more water because the still has to run for a lot longer and most of the cooling is used in the reflux coil . So a typical reflux run might use about 10x as much water as a Stripping run .
Again , about 1000litres is a good size to get the job done on a typical keg still with a 2-3" reflux column .
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Re: No experience distilling, wanting to do first build

Post by NZChris »

Why would you want to use stainless when it is known that copper makes better product?

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 0450.x/pdf

Have a look in your local scrapyards for suitable copper at scrap prices,
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Re: No experience distilling, wanting to do first build

Post by kimbodious »

Yeah, my still is all SS but I’ll put a couple of copper pot scrubbers at the boiler end of my column if I think it is necessary. You don’t need much copper if your wash doesn’t have much sulphites, well that is my view anyway.

Am I ever going to make/ buy a copper still? Don’t reckon so. Would I put more copper pot scrubbers in the vapour path? Yes, if I thought it was necessary. Don’t get all knotted up about what people say/ think you ought to do, give it a crack and work out what is best for your requirements.

I am not comfortable as being held up as some exponent of distilling using any particular sort of equipment.

The thing is that in my professional life, I am a science communicator. I may sound convincing even when I am talking sh!t. I temper that in forums like this by trying to be as factual as I can based solely on my own experience/ observations. I am scientist first/ communicator second which is why I encourage people to try for themselves. The scientist part of me gets more than a little bit excited from people trying out new methods and materials.
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Re: No experience distilling, wanting to do first build

Post by Salt Must Flow »

Heavy wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 9:47 pm
Salt Must Flow wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 5:02 pm Heavy, do happen to have an air compressor, angle grinder, hand files, drill and basic hand tools like that? Do you know someone who does? If not then that might put you out of building a lot yourself unless you intend to buy some basic tools to do the job. With some basic tools I was able to build everything myself except I would take parts to a local guy to get TIG welded.

If you are considering building things yourself, shop around for a 15.5 gal keg, keep your eyes out for one and you will find one. If you can get a keg for a decent price, you wouldn't believe how cheap it would be to convert it into a boiler. Kegs are tough as nails and extremely high quality. You don't need all the bells & whistles immediately. You'll get everything you want over time.
My air compressor broke but I'm meaning to buy another, all the air chucks at the gas stations seem to be missing. No angle grinder, could borrow/buy one though. Yes drills and a healthy amount of tools, even some brand new hole saws looking for a purpose.

I'm moderately comfortable building things and doing electrical stuff.

About what should I look to pay for a 15.5 keg? I haven't learned enough about using beer kegs to know anything about using them, but I'm game. I've seen pictures that make them look totally reasonable. My concerns were getting bulkheads in without welding, which is fixed by figuring out a welder (or soldering). And the other concern was cleaning since it looks like power spraying the thing out using the 2" column connection, how bad is cleaning a keg in practice vs a larger opening using clamps?
I've paid as much as $125 and I've also got them for free. You just have to keep your eye out. Check out FaceBook Market Place. I used to find them on Craigs List and eBay, but it seems everyone's using Market Place these days.

Yes you can install a $25 weldless 2" Tri-Clamp bulkhead fitting for an element, but as you said you won't be able to install it without physical access to the inside. You could find a local that TIG welds and simply have him weld a $5 2" Tri-Clamp ferrule to the keg. I went to a local welding supply store, asked if they have a customer who TIG welds and they gave me the phone number to someone who does. The cost for welding is cheap in comparison to the cost of more expensive fittings. I cut all the holes, do all the grinding, fitment work and all he has to do is weld the parts together. I do all the final cleanup work.

Look how others have modified kegs for boilers. Some use a 2"x3" reducer to connect a 3" column to the 2" fitting on their keg. Some chop the 2" connection and weld a 3" ferrule for their column. Some use a 4" ferrule for easier physical access. Some use 6" ferrules. Make it the way you want it. Instead of buying an expensive 6"x3" reducer end cap I made my own (for this a buddy plasma cut the hole and did the finish grinding). I knew I wanted swiveling casters so I had some Stainless Hex Coupling Nuts welded so I could screw the swiveling casters to the keg. You could always put copper bits in your boiler and/or some copper mesh at the base of your column. That has always worked for me.
15.5 gal Keg Boiler.jpg
6x3 in Adapter.jpg
A bottom drain is really handy and one of the easiest things to install. I simply cut a hole in the bottom using a step drill bit and soldered a 1" Stainless Weld Spud in place. The rest is just a couple 1" copper fittings, some 1" copper pipe and a 1" stainless ball valve.

You'll be able to make a better boiler than you can buy and it will cost a lot less too. Most of the fun is doing it yourself and appreciating what you've made years down the road. You can always add bells & whistles if you want them as you go.

I live in the country so I have well water. I don't bother to recycle water at all and send the hot water down a floor drain.
Last edited by Salt Must Flow on Sat Sep 10, 2022 10:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: No experience distilling, wanting to do first build

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oops oops
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Re: No experience distilling, wanting to do first build

Post by Boozewaves »

Heavy wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 9:47 pm My concerns were getting bulkheads in without welding, which is fixed by figuring out a welder (or soldering). And the other concern was cleaning since it looks like power spraying the thing out using the 2" column connection, how bad is cleaning a keg in practice vs a larger opening using clamps?
Any residual dried beer left in a keg is likely to be on the bottom so spraying a power washer through the top opening first could help loosen it . after doing that i'd put some boiling water and some soap inside the keg and roll it back and forth on some grass to wash the sides

then vinegar run , rinse and sacrificial run , rinse again and it should be spotless inside . once you have done that it would only need emptying and rinsing after every run

I did that for about 6 months then decided I wanted a drain and fill port . Being able to do back to back stripping runs without disconnecting the potstill head and carrying the hot keg to a ditch was worth every penny .

the video below got me into silver soldering stainless , its a good option nobody has mentioned for doing keg add-ons that does not cost very much to get into , you just need to buy 55% silver rods and a mapp gas torch (propane won't work , I tried that) plus the stuff for cleaning afterwards , practice on some metal scraps and you can join stainless steel pretty easy and join copper to stainless as well , the joints are extremely strong , a ferrule silver soldered onto my keg top supports the weight of a six foot column filled with lava rocks as packing plus the condenser as well



another thing : i'd still consider myself a beginner but having a sight glass on my column was a massive help when I was first starting , it helps to be able to see what happens when you change something during a reflux run so you get used to running it quicker . I ran without one a few times then added one and everything made so much more sense . And the alcohol tasted a lot better afterwards too
Become a distiller : start here viewtopic.php?t=52975
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Re: No experience distilling, wanting to do first build

Post by shadylane »

Heavy wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 9:47 pm

I've wondered occasionally if it's ok to go from the 2" port an use an adapter to have the column at 3"? Not worth it? Problems? Does it work?
Looking at this: https://brewhaus.com/still-run-time-comparisons.html Now I'm like it's 4" or nothing!
Using a reducer to go from 2" to 3 or 4" works fine.
https://www.glaciertanks.com/fittings/t ... ucers.html
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Re: No experience distilling, wanting to do first build

Post by shadylane »

Heavy wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 9:47 pm
For the chest freezer I was going to fill a commando tote with water and freeze it.
I'd recommend against using a freezer, totes and a pump.
Especially if you're going to use a CM still head that needs a constant temp and water flow.
Also think of the wear and tear on the poor freezer when it has to run nonstop for hours.

Any reason why you can't run the still off of a garden hose?
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Re: No experience distilling, wanting to do first build

Post by Heavy »

I am having trouble finding a keg on Facebook marketplace. Still searching but seems like everybody's listings are old/already sold. If I manage to find one to buy I am thinking I would solder on ferrules. Going to search again after I post this.

I also saw this keg online with $44 shipping: https://www.tcwequipment.com/products/4 ... -steel-keg
Anybody have opinions on these? They have a 6" ferrule one for slightly more $ as well.
Boozewaves wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 10:23 am I did that for about 6 months then decided I wanted a drain and fill port .
I was thinking about calling to see if I could get different modifications or not. I have seen people flip the keg and put a drain where the top was and a column on what was the bottom. Or just a drain anywhere would be nice. And a fill port would be nice for back to back runs!
Salt Must Flow wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 7:56 am A bottom drain is really handy and one of the easiest things to install. I simply cut a hole in the bottom using a step drill bit and soldered a 1" Stainless Weld Spud in place. The rest is just a couple 1" copper fittings, some 1" copper pipe and a 1" stainless ball valve.

You'll be able to make a better boiler than you can buy and it will cost a lot less too. Most of the fun is doing it yourself and appreciating what you've made years down the road. You can always add bells & whistles if you want them as you go.
I could probably add the drain myself, that sounds like about the easiest fitting to add myself. I might go both ways and do two stills; buy a used keg that I can learn to solder on fittings to and one ready to go keg to learn distilling on. The idea of getting a second column and running two stills side by side sounds appealing.
kimbodious wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 4:49 am Yeah, my still is all SS but I’ll put a couple of copper pot scrubbers at the boiler end of my column if I think it is necessary. You don’t need much copper if your wash doesn’t have much sulphites, well that is my view anyway.
Copper scrubbers in the column is the plan. Might add some copper other places too, not sure where it is most efficient at converting sulphites?
shadylane wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 11:17 am I'd recommend against using a freezer, totes and a pump.
I'll use the garden hose, or blue barrels to reduce waste. There's lots of water around here.
Oatmeal wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 3:04 pm Have you looked at a ccvm option probably least expensive multi-purpose option right off the bat?
I feel like I have got CCVM figured out. A cooling coil with adjustable height at the top of the column controls reflux and how much vapor makes it to the product condenser. Seems like most people leave the top of the column unsealed as the reflux condenser coil prevents alcohol vapors from escaping.
Oatmeal wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 3:04 pm Copper coil is a pain to wind corrugated stainless gas pipe is real easy.
Thanks for the tip! Small copper tube does look like a pain to coil in the videos I have watched, I'll look into using the corrugated stainless gas pipe.
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Salt Must Flow
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Re: No experience distilling, wanting to do first build

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Heavy wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 6:24 am I also saw this keg online with $44 shipping: https://www.tcwequipment.com/products/4 ... -steel-keg
Anybody have opinions on these? They have a 6" ferrule one for slightly more $ as well.
That's pretty expensive for what it is, but I get it. When you're not finding kegs, it's tempting to over pay to get one now. 4" and 6" ferrules are cheap. The cost for welding is cheap. I don't like 1-1/2" ferrules for heating elements. I prefer 2" and they work perfectly. I could imagine 1-1/2" ferrules causing ULWD elements to bind when trying to insert them. I don't have a 1-1/2" ferrule here to test with my ULWD element. 2" is usually considered standard if I'm not mistaken.
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Re: No experience distilling, wanting to do first build

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Since I don't have a 1-1/2" ferrule, I used a cardboard tube with the same inner dimension. If the ferrule is 1" long then an ULWD element will slide through ok. If it' much longer it will bind. It will surely bind if it is 1-5/8" long. The ferrule in that pic looks longer than 1" to me. 2" ferrules that are 1-5/8" long are what I've always used for my elements and they work great.
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Re: No experience distilling, wanting to do first build

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$100 for a Anheuser-Busch 15 gal keg. Going to meet to buy it in a few hours here.
keg.jpg
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Re: No experience distilling, wanting to do first build

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Heavy wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 8:09 am $100 for a Anheuser-Busch 15 gal keg. Going to meet to buy it in a few hours here.

keg.jpg
AWESOME :thumbup: That's a pretty reasonable price too. I've paid more and I've paid less. It looks like it's in really good shape too.
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Re: No experience distilling, wanting to do first build

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Salt Must Flow wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 7:36 am 2" ferrules that are 1-5/8" long are what I've always used for my elements and they work great.
Where do you get your elements at? I've seen a variety of them listed but I don't know what is good.
Salt Must Flow wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 7:06 am 4" and 6" ferrules are cheap.
As long as I'm sourcing things, where are the cheap ferrules coming from? :wink:

I think I still need a grinder with tungsten carbide thing to grind out the holes, MAP torch, fittings, 55% silver solder, harris stay clean flux, mineral oil, maybe a ~2" hole saw (sized so I can have the fittings sit tight), parts to make the drain, an adapter to get from 4" to the column and/or a 4" column setup. Trying to figure out what I'm forgetting...

Seems like a few people like a 6" ferrule so I might look at that too.
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Re: No experience distilling, wanting to do first build

Post by Salt Must Flow »

Heavy wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 8:29 am
Salt Must Flow wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 7:36 am 2" ferrules that are 1-5/8" long are what I've always used for my elements and they work great.
Where do you get your elements at? I've seen a variety of them listed but I don't know what is good.
Salt Must Flow wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 7:06 am 4" and 6" ferrules are cheap.
As long as I'm sourcing things, where are the cheap ferrules coming from? :wink:

I think I still need a grinder with tungsten carbide thing to grind out the holes, MAP torch, fittings, 55% silver solder, harris stay clean flux, mineral oil, maybe a ~2" hole saw (sized so I can have the fittings sit tight), parts to make the drain, an adapter to get from 4" to the column and/or a 4" column setup. Trying to figure out what I'm forgetting...

Seems like a few people like a 6" ferrule so I might look at that too.
I originally bought the Still Dragon Element Guard and also had to buy a 5500W element separately. I bought a Camco ULWD element. It showed signs of rust where the fitting is exposed to the boiler charge pretty quick. I understand that Camco has since made a special element for brewing that's stainless steel.

Now I just buy Dernord 5500W elements on Amazon. This turned out to be cheaper and it's a really high quality element too. Zero rust or corrosion. This is my favorite heating element.

For ferrules, just search Amazon. I see some for $22-$25. Try eBay too, but Amazon is usually less expensive.The ones I use are 1-1/4" tall. I wouldn't go any shorter or it will be a knuckle buster trying to tighten the Tri-Clamp clamp.
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Re: No experience distilling, wanting to do first build

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Boozewaves wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 10:23 am you just need to buy 55% silver rods and a mapp gas torch (propane won't work , I tried that) plus the stuff for cleaning afterwards ,
Salt Must Flow wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 7:56 am I simply cut a hole in the bottom using a step drill bit and soldered
I keep reading that I should solder on the ferrules then cut the holes?

What's the best way to cut the 2" holes, https://a.co/d/29JaCnY ? What about a 4" or 6"?

Is there a keg cutting and/or silver soldering guide type post?
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Re: No experience distilling, wanting to do first build

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Heavy wrote: Thu Oct 20, 2022 8:25 am
Boozewaves wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 10:23 am you just need to buy 55% silver rods and a mapp gas torch (propane won't work , I tried that) plus the stuff for cleaning afterwards ,
Salt Must Flow wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 7:56 am I simply cut a hole in the bottom using a step drill bit and soldered
I keep reading that I should solder on the ferrules then cut the holes?

What's the best way to cut the 2" holes, https://a.co/d/29JaCnY ? What about a 4" or 6"?

Is there a keg cutting and/or silver soldering guide type post?
There are a lot of different ways to cut holes. I first trace my holes inside and outside of the ferrule with a Sharpie marker just to be thorough. I have been using an Angle Grinder with a cutting disk to crudely cut the hole by only cutting straight lines. Once the bulk of material has been removed I switch to a Die Grinder to finalize the hole using Carbide Rotary Burr bit. I have been using a cheap Die Grinder. I can't remember if I bought it at Harbor Freight or TSC. Anyways, it's air operated (from an air compressor) and one of the handiest tools for distilling related projects in my opinion. Once the ferrules have been TIG welded into place there's usually some finish grinding that needs done and I'm back to using the Die Grinder again.

For really large holes (6" for instance) I just use the Angle Grinder with cutting disk to crudely cut the hole, switch to a grinding disk with the Angle Grinder to clean it up and after TIG welding I use the Die Grinder to finish & polish up the interior.

In the past I had a friend use his Plasma Cutter to crudely cut some holes. That was really fast, but you MUST remember to fill the keg with water first otherwise the molten steel will stick to the interior of the keg and later need grinding to remove it.

Sure there's diamond hole saws and hole saws made of other materials. I've used hole saws in the past. I've tried using lubricants/oils, but also used a garden hose to continually cool while cutting. I prefer to use grinders to cut holes now because I feel like I have more control. I don't have to worry about work hardening the stainless which can happen with hole saws. It may be slower, but you can achieve anything with an Angle Grinder and a Die Grinder.

I went to one of those cheap tool shops and picked up one of these attachments, an assortment of sanding disks of all grits and polishing disks. These are amazing and come in really handy for cleaning up messy solder joints. You can coarse grind, switch to medium polishing which still removes a surprising amount of material then switch to a finer polish for finishing.
Die Grinder Disks.jpg


I also ordered a cheap set of Carbide Rotary Burr set which are side cutters/grinders. These are what I use after crude cutting holes with an Die Grinder. They really remove material, but in a more controlled manor.
Die Grinder Bits.jpg
I know many may not own these tools and may prefer to buy special hole saws for a one time use to save money. I get it, but over time I've found that owning some basic tools allows you to get just about anything done for most projects.
Last edited by Salt Must Flow on Fri Oct 21, 2022 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: No experience distilling, wanting to do first build

Post by Boozewaves »

Heavy wrote: Thu Oct 20, 2022 8:25 am
Boozewaves wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 10:23 am you just need to buy 55% silver rods and a mapp gas torch (propane won't work , I tried that) plus the stuff for cleaning afterwards ,
Salt Must Flow wrote: Sat Sep 10, 2022 7:56 am I simply cut a hole in the bottom using a step drill bit and soldered
I keep reading that I should solder on the ferrules then cut the holes?

What's the best way to cut the 2" holes, https://a.co/d/29JaCnY ? What about a 4" or 6"?

Is there a keg cutting and/or silver soldering guide type post?
Yeah i'm definitely in agreement with Salts above post :clap:
,
carbide burrs are great , keep one just for working on stainless or you could introduce other metals particles into the stainless , thats a tip I read here from Corene + it makes a lot of sense , I have used them with my 18v corless drill as well as with an air powered die grinder + both will work but a drill will be slower (this can be a good thing sometimes) . you don't want to cut your hole too big

angle grinders are great too , I use mine all the time for fixing , altering , sharpening etc, its one of my favourite tools . if you are going to buy one , buy one with a 3 year guarantee/warranty , keep all the original accessories , box and receipt and then when it eventually inevitably dies a fiery death you can get a new one + repeat the process. guild brand grinders are pretty good and when bought from a shop can come with a guarantee .

working with non magnetic stainless steel is definitely different than the usual bed frame/car panel steel . try drilling a hole through a spoon and you will see. I suggest practicing on any cheap non magnetic stainless cooking pans you can get for cheap or free before you try to cut , drill or solder a keg . your keg boiler should last you many years so might as well be happy with it . with drilling if you do so , try to run the drill slowly with good pressure , if you are doing it right you should "feel" it cutting and actually removing metal , wear a glove and slow the drill by "throttling" it . a drillbit that has a similar end as a step bit will work good , cobalt drills are really good but expensive (IMHO worth it )

I found silver soldering pretty easy to learn , ONCE I had the right tools and rods , years ago I tried it out using a propane torch and 20 percent rods (could have sworn I bought 55 percent silver rods) , and it did not go well . seeing the video I posted earlier for the first time earlier this year re-ignited my interest so I tried again and it went well :D , seems way easier than welding . and as I say the joints are really strong if done right

barkeepers friend powder is good for cleaning/passivating after brazing , a rotary cleaning brush similar to an electric toothbrush but bigger is good to clean away scorch marks and prevent it from eventually rusting . if you make a really good join there will be less scorch to wet sand and clean .barkeepers friend's good for polishing the outside of the keg too ,

I don't think there are any dedicated keg cutting or silver soldering guides written here but a lot of good info can be learned if you sift through the posts + lots of youtube videos about fabrication of other things not related to kegs+ stills are worth a watch too , there are many videos about drilling stainless or silver brazing stainless or copper HVAC stuff , its never been easier to learn new skills . older guy in a shed videos tend to be better than soy face thumbnail clickbaity ones :ebiggrin:

also please be safe , don't breathe chromium dust when cutting a keg with a grinder or flux fumes when brazing .
Become a distiller : start here viewtopic.php?t=52975
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Re: No experience distilling, wanting to do first build

Post by 30xs »

Being that your targeting neutral as a main product I’d say 3” would be your best option. Going larger would require both extra power and height. If you decide to add a ferrule to your keg, for column attachment I’d go 4” and reduce down. It would give you the option for doing a 4” plated column direct attach, if you want to go that route in the future.
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