I want to get better at making a whiskey recipe

All styles of whiskey. This is for all-grain mashes.

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Steve Broady
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I want to get better at making a whiskey recipe

Post by Steve Broady »

Looking for advice on where to focus and research when it comes to recipes. I have made a few whiskey or whiskey style spirits, including UJSSM, one disastrous attempt at rye, some basic AG, sugarheads, etc. One AG which stands out to me is one that I made using toasted quick oatmeal and which has a strong dark chocolate note to it. I’m not sure if that’s my ideal flavor, but it’s definitely interesting and I hope that the Badmo it’s aging in will turn it into something special in a couple years.

I want to do better. Obviously, I need to work on my skill with the technical aspects of the process, and I’m doing so. And I don’t have any complaints about the things I’ve made so far, but I know there is room for improvement. I see a lot of recipes with very specific grain bills, specifically malts, etc., and I know there’s a good reason why an experienced distiller would go for something like that. I have a lot of culinary experience and appreciate the subtlety and variety that comes with using just the right ingredients in the right way.

Of course, there is no one perfect recipe for anything in this world, and I can’t expect anyone to just hand me the recipe that I’ll love being all others. I’m just looking for some guidance on how to get there, based on other people’s experience. I don’t have a home brew shop nearby, so it’s either drive about an hour each way (which will be rare at best due to my schedule) or order on line. That makes it difficult to explore a wide variety of malts quickly or inexpensively. I also have limited time to run the still, so an experimental batch could easily be all that I make in the space of a month or more. Both of these have discouraged me from just trying a bunch of different recipes to see what I like.

My taste runs toward bourbon. If anyone is familiar with Corner Creek, that’s been my favorite so far, though I can’t find it any more unless I order it by the case. I’ve had a couple local ryes that were excellent (though I’ve not generally been a huge fan of rye in the past), and both my wife and I enjoy a decent Irish or Canadian whiskey. While I do appreciate some Scotch, it’s not my favorite, especially the iodine which is so prominent in so many. Neither my palate nor my vocabulary are refined enough to break down all the flavors in an excellent bourbon and tell you what I like about it, unfortunately.

With all that said, where would you point my attention next? Learn to work with rye? Wheat? Speciality malts? I’m open to anything within reason.
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Re: I want to get better at making a whiskey recipe

Post by still_stirrin »

I suggest starting by learning how to brew (all grain) beers. That will teach you the flavor contribution of various cereal grains. It will teach you the mash process and fermentation processes. Practice, practice, practice.

As Geoff would point out, anyone can follow a recipe to make bread. But it is the experience that turns you into “a baker”.

Recipe formulation is art. The palette is defined by the grains and the artistry is created by the painter/brewer. Nobody creates a “masterpiece” as their 1st painting … it requires perseverance and practice. Skill is an “acquired” honor.

Sorry, no “get rich quick” answers here. Just encouragement to keep trying.
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Re: I want to get better at making a whiskey recipe

Post by BrewinBrian44 »

Honestly, the recipe's posted up in the tried and true section are the best place to start as a novice. You need to establish a good baseline process and recipe "from tried and true" in order for first make something that is an objectively good product, with good cuts. Gotta walk before you can run.

Personally, being more creative person with a huge homebrewing background, this sentiment didn't feel right at first. Then I tasted my first, decently aged product and thought it was awesome, then it all made sense to me. Even a very simple AG recipe like Carolina Bourbon can have plenty of complexity. No sense over-complicating something that works. That's why they're in tried and true. The descriptions given in the threads and results of others should give you an indication of what to expect in the final product. Once you've made some different bourbons, with different grain bills and have given them some proper time to age, you'll start to detect why they taste the way they do and can tune/tweak the recipe from there, making them your own.

After many, many batches of bourbon, I'm finding I'm naturally drawn to recipes from Shineoncrazydiamond. His stuff is unique, but awesome. He ventured out and started trying new things, but had the experience to do it right. Honey Bear Bourbon is excellent. I love it so much I've filled up two 5 gallon barrels with it, which for me, is a major commitment. He also has some recipe's that aren't in tried and true, but totally should be. CROW bourbon is another excellent product and is reminiscent of something more traditional, but the addition of toasted oats takes it to the next level. I have some aging for a little over a year and it's already awesome, can't wait to see how it turns out with even more time. He also has a Sundae Chocolate Bourbon which is on my to do list!
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Re: I want to get better at making a whiskey recipe

Post by Oatmeal »

I also have a great deal to learn about making whiskey. As part of my practice, I have been making whiskeys from a single ingredient to get a sense of what it brings to the table.

Jimbo's single malt wheat, Booner's casual corn, an all barley. For rye I did a small low alcohol 2 gallon batch and ran it with a mis-cut sugarhead to great effect. The small batch made the rye ferment pretty manageable.

I think my take away is to get better at whiskey it's necessary to just make a lot of whiskey...
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Re: I want to get better at making a whiskey recipe

Post by EricTheRed »

Oatmeal wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:03 am I think my take away is to get better at whiskey it's necessary to just make a lot of whiskey...
That belongs in Notable and Quotable!
Well said!
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Re: I want to get better at making a whiskey recipe

Post by jonnys_spirit »

I’d recommend making batch after batch of bourbon on a pot still with varying grain bills each time. If you enjoy bourbon you’ll like all of them. Take notes and shoot to age a good year. Experiment with narrow and wider cuts. Clean hearts of hearts for early drinking white cut and wider for barrel cut. Experiment with enzymes, and tried and true recipes - substitute different grains perhaps with some intent or perhaps with abandon. I learn from mistakes and successes!

Cheers and good luck!
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Re: I want to get better at making a whiskey recipe

Post by Ben »

I think Oatmeal and SS have it right.

Learn to brew beer, the techniques and flavors come over to AG whiskey.

What kind of beer do you like? Pull the grain bills over (there are some malts used to aid head retention, you can skip those)

Make recipes that are nothing but corn, rye, wheat, and all base malt barley, make your cuts and set aside some of the white so you can compare and blend them. Then change just one thing, add some chocolate wheat to whatever base malt see what that does for you. On and on it goes, but you can always blend recipes together post distillation. There are thousands of specialty malts out there, but a lot of them are very similar. Start by choosing one out of a couple different categories, something like a roast barley around 300l, a caramel 120, and a biscuit or honey.... once you find a preference start working in things that are close by that. For instance if you like the 300l roast barley try a lighter chocolate and a darker roast.

Same deal with aging, make a big enough batch of something to age it on a few different things, toasted oak, charred oak, toasted and charred oak, raw peach wood etc, then side by side them. This is a good place to use some of the "rapid aging" techniques, since you are interested in the wood contribution rather than the aging effect.

A good way to increase your tasting vocabulary is to watch tasting videos on youtube, some channels are more entertaining than others, don't get turned off if you don't like the first video you see, try a different one, don't assume anything anyone says is gospel, don't expect to find the same things as they do, we all taste and smell differently. Find tasting notes on the whiskey you like, see what other people are getting off of it, see if you find the same. I like doing tastings with friends, they will pick up or isolate something I cant find, or verbalize.
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Re: I want to get better at making a whiskey recipe

Post by Dougmatt »

I’ve been doing a lot of research on flavoring and whiskey making. One thing that I keep coming back to is something I’ve seen stated a few times in my research.

The agreed on percentages of what makes up the final flavor of a whiskey is as follows: 10% Yeast Strain, 15% Distillation, 25% Small Grains and 50% Maturation.

Something to think about as you consider what to improve. Here’s some notes I’ve gathered over time on the grain flavors. Apologies as some statement seem contradictory, but these are raw notes I’ve gathered from credible sources and sharing to potentially save you gathering the same.

Barley
Malted barley produces nutty, smoky, some chocolate or cocoa flavors and a flavor often described as cereal or possibly toast. There’s also a distinctive characteristic simply referred to as malt.

Barley imparts a warm, roasted toffee taste to a spirit

Unmalted barley enhances the grain and cereal qualities of the whiskey and introduces light sharp and sour fruity notes like green apple and lemon.

Rye
Rye gives spicy flavors of black and green pepper, anise, mint and, of course, rye bread. Rye imparts a dryness in the mouthfeel that’s sometimes referred to as leathery. Rye can enhance clove and nutmeg flavors from the barrel. If it’s poorly distilled, rye can introduce heavy menthol or camphor flavors into whiskey.

Wheat
Wheat doesn’t provide a substantial set of flavors on its own but does provide a very light bready-ness, some honey and touches of mint. It can provide a gentleness to whiskey and showcases flavors from the other grains or the barrel.

When wheat replaces rye in a bourbon mashbill—often called a wheater—and ages upward of 8 years, the expected result is of long, rounded, and complex caramel notes. Wheated bourbons present French bakery aromas and certain flavors are consistently found in the genre, regardless of who distilled them. They’re often vanilla and caramel drenched with hints of citrus and delicate spice, but could be as accurately described for what they are not—wheated bourbons do not coat the palate with the same baking spice notes as their ryed counterparts. “I like to tell people it is pretty much identical to the difference between wheat bread and rye bread,” says Denny Potter, co-master distiller at Heaven Hill, makers of wheated bourbons Larceny and Old Fitzgerald. “Wheat will be softer and lighter and rye will be spicier and more robust.”

The contemporary thought is that young wheated bourbons don’t taste as good. “Rye grain, either in rye whiskey or in ryed bourbon, masks youth. Wheated bourbon needs more time in the barrel to have a comparable ‘mature’ taste,”

Malting rye or wheat gives a soft grain sweetness to the final product.

Corn
There’s a lot of confusion about corn in whiskey and it’s often mis-credited for the sweetness, vanilla and maple syrup notes in bourbon. No grain actually provides sugar content in whiskey – sugar doesn’t pass through distillation – but because YD#2 corn isn’t a strong source of flavors in and of itself, the oak sugars and vanillins from that new, charred oak barrel shine through.

Corn whiskey is your best bet if you want an easy-drinking spirit. Its sweet honey, browned butter, and creamy flavors create an alluring base to keep you sipping, while its notes of toasted marshmallow — derived from the use of charred American oak barrels — add a top note that sets you over the edge.

The flavor of corn is prevalent fresh off the still in the White Dog; but over years of aging, the corn becomes neutral, and lends mostly in the overall sweetness to the finished product. *Corn is not a small grain.

Aged corn whiskeys — made of 80% corn — and many bourbons tend to carry a clear popcorn note amidst the sweet vanilla that tends to dominate. Unaged corn whiskey, like moonshine, wears its corn influence on its sleeve, and the primary taste an imbiber will get is sweet, buttered popcorn.

Corn’s role in whiskey is to provide cheap carbohydrates for the yeast to convert into ethanol. Ideally, very little flavor comes from the corn itself. Heavy corn notes – especially burnt corn oil, popcorn or “movie theater butter” – are often considered faults in bourbon. This is why bourbon recipes always include a proportion of the “flavoring grains” of barley, rye and/or wheat. Corn also introduces compounds that can heighten the ethanol burn of whiskey which bourbon distillers must be vigilant to remove either during distillation, maturation or filtration. The modern distiller’s corn is Yellow Dent #2

White corn introduces some lighter fruit and floral notes like green apple.

Blue corn imparts more nuttiness and a distinct “foxiness” or grape/brandy like character.

Red corn strains like Bloody Butcher – used by Wood Hat and also New Liberty in Pennsylvania and Jeptha Creed Distillery in Kentucky – may introduce the most flavor of any heirloom corn strain with an orchestra-like complexity of nuttiness, smokiness and a multitude of individual fruit notes. High Wire Distilling Co. in South Carolina has revived Jimmy Red corn which they say creates nutty, sweet and mineralic flavors and a creamy mouthfeel.

Other:

Triticale is wheat-rye hybrid that produces – as expected – spicy and peppery notes similar to rye but generally softer.

There’s no consensus on the flavors of rice in whiskey – possibly due to the large number of varieties available – but recurring flavors include lighter floral and delicate fruit notes.

The grand-daddy of all whiskey grain processes is peat smoking malted barley. Peat is partially decayed vegetation or organic matter, kind of like early-stage coal, which was historically used to heat homes in northern Europe. By burning it to dry to the freshly-malted barley, distillers introduced a distinctive smokey, earthy “peat reek” into the spirit.
Westland Distillery in Washington uses a locally harvested peat rich with a local plant called Labrador tea which apparently smells of rosemary and lavender. Wood Buffalo Brewing Co. in Canada once had their grains accidentally smoked by a wildfire.
Back in the US, Tenth Ward Distilling in Maryland makes a Smoked Corn Whiskey which is as the name describes. Even Woodford Reserve got in the smoked-grain game with their 2017 Master’s Collection Cherry Wood Smoked Barley release. There are actually quite a lot of distilleries experimenting with smoke from a variety of sources in their whiskeys.

Grains can be toasted, roasted and in other ways processed to develop special character.
Chocolating is exactly as the term implies – the cocoa note in Corsair’s Ryemaggedon is unmistakable. Rabbit Hole Distillery in Kentucky includes honey malted barley in their Bourbon’s grain bill which, unsurprisingly, adds sweet floral notes to it.
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Re: I want to get better at making a whiskey recipe

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Dougmatt wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:09 am

The agreed on percentages of what makes up the final flavor of a whiskey is as follows: 10% Yeast Strain, 15% Distillation, 25% Small Grains and 50% Maturation.
Somewhere in there they forgot fermentation. It's more than just yeast selection, it impacts your heads and tails volume, off-of-hearts flavor, ABV etc. Temperature of the ferment, available nutrients, yeast colony size, infections, pH (starting and final), fermentability of the wort all effect the ferment. This is also where esters happen, and just because a yeast is known for pushing certain esters doesn't mean it will, you usually have to coax them to do what is asked.
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Re: I want to get better at making a whiskey recipe

Post by Steve Broady »

still_stirrin wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 4:44 am Sorry, no “get rich quick” answers here. Just encouragement to keep trying.
That’s fine with me. If I wanted perfect booze right away, I’d have to settle for paying someone else to have all the fun. I’m all for learning and practice, but I found myself getting a bit confused by the variety of information, advice, and recipes out there.

Thank you all so much for the replies so far. It’s given me some ideas to consider and stuff to work on.

I’m not a huge fan of beer, mainly because it occasionally leaves me in some discomfort, feeling like I’m choking on something even though I’m not. I have no idea why. That said, I quite like some of the wheat beers, Hefeweizen, Octoberfest, and other less aggressively hopped beers. I never really considered brewing my own beer for purely practical reasons. I don’t/can’t drink enough of it to justify the work, and I have heard that it requires attention at specific times. My work has me gone for several days at a time, completely unpredictably, so anything that needs attention at regular intervals isn’t practical. Compared to distilling, where I can leave something sitting for a week or more and just get to it when I get to it. With all that said, I appreciate the point of comparing flavor notes in beer and whiskey, and it gives me something to learn about.

Dougmatt, that’s incredibly helpful to me, thank you! It gives me some idea where to look, both for recipes that I might like, and for where to modify a recipe to better suit my tastes.
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Re: I want to get better at making a whiskey recipe

Post by tombombadil »

So far, my observations have been:

Highly roasted malts do seem to have a big effect on the spirit. These are usually called "chocolate malt" or "black patent malt". To me, chocolate malt at 5% comes through like cocoa powder or dark chocolate. One local distiller says they tried a higher %, 10%, and got more of a coffee flavor.

Rye is well known to produce a big effect, I agree with previous comments on it. Spicy, peppery, minty...

I notice a distinct grainy flavor from using 6 row barley malt vs distillers malt or pale ale malt. It's sort of bready, doughy, crackery. Something like that.

I have tried some toasted malts that have a great affect on beer, but didn't seem to contribute much in a spirit. Might just be my untrained pallette/nose though.

I think maybe it's difficult for the toasted malt flavors to stand out from the barrel flavors.

Good luck!
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Re: I want to get better at making a whiskey recipe

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Steve Broady wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 4:08 am My taste runs toward bourbon. If anyone is familiar with Corner Creek, that’s been my favorite so far, though I can’t find it any more unless I order it by the case. I’ve had a couple local ryes that were excellent (though I’ve not generally been a huge fan of rye in the past), and both my wife and I enjoy a decent Irish or Canadian whiskey. While I do appreciate some Scotch, it’s not my favorite, especially the iodine which is so prominent in so many. Neither my palate nor my vocabulary are refined enough to break down all the flavors in an excellent bourbon and tell you what I like about it, unfortunately.
Your palate & mine are in synch. I want to like Scotch since I have Scottish ancestry, but the peat & iodine tones are not appealing when too strong. I hate rye bread, but (go figure) I absolutely love rye whiskey. Ya, I know, I'm weird...

If you like Irish whiskey, get some Golden Promise malted barley. The stuff is pure magic to the taste buds. One of my fav's recipes is 4# GP, 4# flaked barley, 1# cornmeal, #1 toasted oats.
BrewinBrian44 wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 4:54 am Honestly, the recipe's posted up in the tried and true section are the best place to start as a novice. You need to establish a good baseline process and recipe "from tried and true" in order for first make something that is an objectively good product, with good cuts. Gotta walk before you can run.

After many, many batches of bourbon, I'm finding I'm naturally drawn to recipes from Shineoncrazydiamond. His stuff is unique, but awesome. He ventured out and started trying new things, but had the experience to do it right. Honey Bear Bourbon is excellent. I love it so much I've filled up two 5 gallon barrels with it, which for me, is a major commitment. He also has some recipe's that aren't in tried and true, but totally should be. CROW bourbon is another excellent product and is reminiscent of something more traditional, but the addition of toasted oats takes it to the next level. I have some aging for a little over a year and it's already awesome, can't wait to see how it turns out with even more time. He also has a Sundae Chocolate Bourbon which is on my to do list!
+1 to this. I've found SCD's CROW bourbon in Recipe Development is my go-to. You can play around with the grain ratios to suit your tastes. I reversed the corn & rye and called it "High Rye CROW" and it's almost a year in the glass. Sugarhead is long gone...

Have fun, keep reading, and experiment.

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Re: I want to get better at making a whiskey recipe

Post by 6 Row Joe »

Lots of good information in this thread. Thanks to all who posted. I am learning a lot here.
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Re: I want to get better at making a whiskey recipe

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Steve Broady wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 11:24 am I don’t/can’t drink enough of it to justify the work, and I have heard that it requires attention at specific times. My work has me gone for several days at a time, completely unpredictably, so anything that needs attention at regular intervals isn’t practical. Compared to distilling, where I can leave something sitting for a week or more and just get to it when I get to it. With all that said, I appreciate the point of comparing flavor notes in beer and whiskey, and it gives me something to learn about.
Neither one really requires regular intervals, both kind of reward laziness and procrastination. There are some beer recipes where you might add dry hops, or lagers that use various fermentation temps, but a standard ale (or whiskey mash) can sit for long periods and be fine. No reason to rush your whiskey, if you keep your beer (distillers or otherwise) under an air lock it will last for months or years without real harm. It's not uncommon for one of my ferments to sit around 3-6 months before being kegged or distilled, 3 weeks is usually the minimum.

Most peoples biggest failing in either hobby is trying to push the ferments through too fast, if you have a job that prevents you from doing that you are in luck :)
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Re: I want to get better at making a whiskey recipe

Post by Dougmatt »

Ben wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:55 am
Dougmatt wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:09 am

The agreed on percentages of what makes up the final flavor of a whiskey is as follows: 10% Yeast Strain, 15% Distillation, 25% Small Grains and 50% Maturation.
Somewhere in there they forgot fermentation. It's more than just yeast selection, it impacts your heads and tails volume, off-of-hearts flavor, ABV etc. Temperature of the ferment, available nutrients, yeast colony size, infections, pH (starting and final), fermentability of the wort all effect the ferment. This is also where esters happen, and just because a yeast is known for pushing certain esters doesn't mean it will, you usually have to coax them to do what is asked.
Fair point. I think the author assumed everyone knew and followed the basics, and then looked for what the biggest flavor impacts were. I went back to the source on that one and it states “ If you keep all the other factors consistent, and change the yeast strain, the final distillate will taste 10% different. “

(Example Source: https://www.distillerytrail.com/blog/th ... on-flavor/)

Over the years, I’ve begun to feel that yeast contribute very little to the flavor profile myself. Using the right yeast for the product, not stressing them too much, and just letting them do their work seems to be about all that is required. In my personal experience of side by sides in wine making and now distilling suggests it’s pretty minimal and IF detectable, then barely. Directionally 10% seems about right and this is an area where I no longer try to chase improvement beyond using the right tool for the job.

I read a lot of what your saying as “don’t make mistakes in primary as it will lead to off flavors, extra heads / tails, etc” which should be avoided. Not sure I agree there’s a lot of controllable flavor outcomes by “adjusting” things in primary beyond keeping a healthy ferment going until dry. Use the right yeast for the product and temperature and then keep them happy with any required nutrients and ph. They do their job.
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Re: I want to get better at making a whiskey recipe

Post by jonnys_spirit »

I feel like there’s often a tendency to attempt to control and maximize every aspect for a certain desired outcome and as I ferment more wines over the years and now ferment->distill (mostly AG but also some other things) I’m trying to “do less” and let it be what it’s going to be by simply providing the best environment for the yeasties - then when distilling following the basic protocol to not “F” it up…

Cheers!
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Re: I want to get better at making a whiskey recipe

Post by ShineonCrazyDiamond »

jonnys_spirit wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 3:08 pm I feel like there’s often a tendency to attempt to control and maximize every aspect for a certain desired outcome and as I ferment more wines over the years and now ferment->distill (mostly AG but also some other things) I’m trying to “do less” and let it be what it’s going to be by simply providing the best environment for the yeasties - then when distilling following the basic protocol to not “F” it up…

Cheers!
-jonny
Nice Johnny.

I like to think of it as creating your own terroir that can't be replicated even the next house over. The wine/ beer will be a product of that environment at that time. Every season different, and you can look back and reflect on the subtleties without concern for replicating. Comes into play with my honey, as well. Every batch different based on weather, hive tendencies, and even what day I pull the honey off. If I tried to replicate every year, the joy would dwindle and diversity be forgotten.
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Re: I want to get better at making a whiskey recipe

Post by shadylane »

" I want to get better at making a whiskey recipe"

My two cents worth.
The recipe is the easy part of making whiskey.....
Acquiring and/or building the equipment that's needed is the first difficulty.
Then you have to gain experience while doing. :ewink:
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Re: I want to get better at making a whiskey recipe

Post by Saltbush Bill »

ShineonCrazyDiamond wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 2:58 am
jonnys_spirit wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 3:08 pm I feel like there’s often a tendency to attempt to control and maximize every aspect for a certain desired outcome and as I ferment more wines over the years and now ferment->distill (mostly AG but also some other things) I’m trying to “do less” and let it be what it’s going to be by simply providing the best environment for the yeasties - then when distilling following the basic protocol to not “F” it up…

Cheers!
-jonny
Nice Johnny.

I like to think of it as creating your own terroir that can't be replicated even the next house over. The wine/ beer will be a product of that environment at that time. Every season different, and you can look back and reflect on the subtleties without concern for replicating. Comes into play with my honey, as well. Every batch different based on weather, hive tendencies, and even what day I pull the honey off. If I tried to replicate every year, the joy would dwindle and diversity be forgotten.
These two posts put a big smile on my face.........this is what this hobby is all about to me..... :thumbup:
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Re: I want to get better at making a whiskey recipe

Post by BlueSasquatch »

Dougmatt wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:09 am Here’s some notes I’ve gathered over time on the grain flavors.
Gotta be one of the most useful post I've seen regarding recipes. Well done, have read similar descriptions here and there, nice to see it compiled. Good to look back and re-read when deciding the next whiskey to make.

My tips are to collect as much commercial white-dog as you can, since maturation affects the flavor so greatly, trying to compare your product with a commercial product is not going to work out well. The more variables you can remove, the easier it can be to get on the same path. If you can get a similar tasting white-dog, then you know your process up until that point, has to be pretty similar.

I also attempted to make 5 different 50/50 blends of grain, thinking that if I only had 1 variable, being 1 grain, then I would be able to taste the difference of the grains, and then blend ratios of any number, on the spot, to dial in a recipe. I had something like Ten 5-gallon buckets, had to do a strip and spirit run, over the new years a handful years back, took me about 12 hours to run everything, so probably ran too fast, but it was my early years. Anyways, very poor outcome, bland, one-dimensional, blending did little to improve, overall not good.

I've had much better luck with the tried and true, and using their ratios as a jumping off point, for my own.
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Re: I want to get better at making a whiskey recipe

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Ive found it to be fun and educational to make the same, somewhat basic recipe several times to get a baseline for what to expect as far as flavor, then change one thing. Ive made about 6 or 7 batches of a makers mark grain bill using Vienna malt, which I like, and this last time I added in some rye. You can read all you want about the flavors of grains (and it is informative), but actually experiencing them in a way that makes their contribution easily identifiable is really helpful.
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Re: I want to get better at making a whiskey recipe

Post by ShineonCrazyDiamond »

Do single grain UJSSM sugarheads. I did an all oats uj, for instance, and immediately knew what oats tasted like (and is a great drink in its own right). Can do with malts or raw grain. This allows to not strain over the mashing part at first, and keep it simple and cheap. Then learn how to use those grains and malts in beer brewing ratios.
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Re: I want to get better at making a whiskey recipe

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Saltbush Bill wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 4:20 am
These two posts put a big smile on my face.........this is what this hobby is all about to me..... :thumbup:
+1 SBB Big ole smile over here too.
I’m really enjoying going rogue with some of this stuff. 8)
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Re: I want to get better at making a whiskey recipe

Post by DavidG »

This thread has been a great read. My take:
- ShineonCrazyDiamond has some really wonderful recipes. Honey Bear Bourbon is a multiple repeat in my still.
- Toasted malts do add a ton to the flavor profile. I used some coffee malt and chocolate malt in a ferment and ended up with a nearly overpowering sipper. Some people like it, some clearly do not. If I ever try again, I'll cut % down to about 3% each.
- The most beneficial thing you can do for your flavor profile is treat your yeast very well. Give them the most suitable environment you can and they will reward you in the end. It's well worth the effort.
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Re: I want to get better at making a whiskey recipe

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DavidG wrote: Mon Oct 10, 2022 10:58 am This thread has been a great read. My take:
- ShineonCrazyDiamond has some really wonderful recipes. Honey Bear Bourbon is a multiple repeat in my still.
- Toasted malts do add a ton to the flavor profile. I used some coffee malt and chocolate malt in a ferment and ended up with a nearly overpowering sipper. Some people like it, some clearly do not. If I ever try again, I'll cut % down to about 3% each.
- The most beneficial thing you can do for your flavor profile is treat your yeast very well. Give them the most suitable environment you can and they will reward you in the end. It's well worth the effort.
Yes. Johnny and SCD were spot on with their comments. Any recipe you make will ultimately be a product of YOUR environment. Your fermenter, your still, your temperatures while you ferment, your cuts, etc.. Like I mentioned earlier in the thread, one of the first AG's I made was Carolina bourbon, which has a very simple grain bill, but there's still plenty of complexity in the final product.

I like the KISS principle "keep it simple stupid." Any time I find myself overcomplicating things, I go back to it. I've also had success applying it to homebrewing. One of the best beers I make and have won awards for is my Kolsch. The recipe is a true testament to simplicity that relies on process and precision of brewing practices to make it what it is. It's only Pilsner malt, Hallertau hops and German Ale/ Kolsch yeast. The final product is light, but very flavorful. I used to make it with a bunch of extra malts and slowly deleted them over time until I came to the recipe's final conclusion. The same applies to my Marzen recipe. Pilsner and Munich malt, that's it.

One thing that should also be stressed about making tasty whiskey at home is your wood. The wood you choose has a huge impact on what it will ultimately become. You could nail everything else and throw some bad oak into an otherwise perfect white dog and ruin it. Where you source and how you treat the wood before using it can have more of an impact on your final product than the recipe itself. For example, I set aside some Honey bear bourbon with different barrel stave sticks that came from the same barrel. One was untouched, no additional toasting and no char. The other was toasted at 370 degrees for one hour and charred. The last was toasted at 400 degrees for one hour and charred. All three jars taste completely different. I had some friends try them and they couldn't believe they all came from the same white dog.
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Re: I want to get better at making a whiskey recipe

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Take more notes than you think you will ever need to give yourself repeatability.
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Re: I want to get better at making a whiskey recipe

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Terrific thread. Keeping it simple and paying attention to detail in our process will make for better whisky, or any other product, repeatedly.
Cheers
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Re: I want to get better at making a whiskey recipe

Post by Sporacle »

Mine is getting better I think, this is due to experience and having run a sustained batch of UJSSM over the last 8 months, that allowed me to really understand ferment volumes to final product volumes.
I have a all grain very similar to HBB that I am working on at the moment, previously I would chop and change ingredients a lot (basically getting distracted by something I've read somewhere)
This lot is set to 3 by 100L ferments, notes taken on each one to see if my efficiency improves as this is my first go at large batch all grain mashing.
So my thoughts are
1. Simplicity
2. Notes
3. A clear plan right through to distillation volumes
4. Repeatability
5. Simplicity

A bit like the 5 Ds of dodgeball :thumbup:
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Re: I want to get better at making a whiskey recipe

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My simple advice is pick a tried and true recipe with a grain bill that looks like a whiskey you like.... then make that same batch over and over to hone your equipment and process. Change one or two things for each batch, and taste the product as white dog and through the aging process. That's what I did, and after doing that and reading this forum almost every day for a couple years, I think I make some pretty decent whiskey. Before doing that I certainly did not.
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Re: I want to get better at making a whiskey recipe

Post by FL Brewer »

Hey BrewinBrian, what's the verdict on the best oak toasting treatment of the three you tried?
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