Apple “sugar head”?

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Steve Broady
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Apple “sugar head”?

Post by Steve Broady »

Forgive me if this has been covered before. I’ve got a bushel of apples which are destined to be blended into a pulp, treated with pectic enzymes, and fermented and distilled. So after that’s all said and done….

Could I treat this like an AG whiskey, and make a sugar head? Use the left over pulp, maybe some backset, possibly some frozen apple justice concentrate, and sugar, and make another batch? Obviously it won’t be the same as the all fruit product, but would it be anything more than a slightly fruity neutral? Had anyone tried anything like that before?

To be clear, I’m not expecting to get top notch brandy. I’ve read comments about a sugar head being a nice sipper while the good stuff is aging. That’s what I was thinking. Maybe a good base for some apple pie or butterscotch moonshine as well.
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Re: Apple “sugar head”?

Post by Knife_man »

I have soaked a re-pressed Apple pulp before to get the last couple of litres to top up a barrel , was surprised at how good the juice was.

I imagine if you fermenting on the pulp and don't try to go too mad then should get some good results.

Can't offer Any definates though and your about a week to late for me to experiment with my own Apple pressings.

I say give it a go you only have some sugar to lose.
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Re: Apple “sugar head”?

Post by Ben »

Some of the frozen juice concentrates could be a good option, I know for sure treetop doesn't contain any preservatives that will stop your yeast. Could be a nice middle ground, and is cheap enough (especially when on sale).
:)
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Re: Apple “sugar head”?

Post by jonnys_spirit »

I'd suggest yes for some subtle flavor and it never hurts to bolster the sugar wash environment with some nutrients.

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Re: Apple “sugar head”?

Post by NZChris »

I've done it with a few fruits and some grains, but not apples.
You can do it with, or without:
Backset.
Backset from the spirit run.
Heads and tails in the stripping runs.

Depends on the end use. Do you want as much flavor as you can get, or do you want something lightly flavored, suitable for gin, fruit steeps, etc.?
I usually, but not always, add water and sugar to get back to the original volume and SG of the wash.
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Re: Apple “sugar head”?

Post by Steve Broady »

NZChris wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 3:01 pm Depends on the end use. Do you want as much flavor as you can get, or do you want something lightly flavored, suitable for gin, fruit steeps, etc.?
I usually, but not always, add water and sugar to get back to the original volume and SG of the wash.
Sounds like at the very least I’m not completely insane for thinking about it. I definitely don’t expect to get a proper brandy, although I do wonder what it would do on oak for a while. But my primary use would be for fruit infusions or other flavored and sweetened liqueurs.
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Re: Apple “sugar head”?

Post by NZChris »

I've never bothered to age any on oak. I use it to keep my hands off my aging likker.

Some of the products I've made using it have been oaked.
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Re: Apple “sugar head”?

Post by Steve Broady »

As I sit here heating up a boiler full of fermented applesauce, I am thinking about this again. I need some advice before I do something dumb, or just pointless.

Background: I had a bushel of mixed apples. Chopped them up and put everything (stems, seeds, and all) into a blender with just enough water to get it to blend. I added some pectinase (about 1 tbsp for a 6 gallon bucket, if it matters) and EC-1118. With an occasional stir to knock down the cap, after a month of so I had a rather runny soup that smells amazing. I put all of that in the boiler. Let’s hope I don’t scorch it…

So now, after I do a stripping run, I’m thinking about using everything that’s left, and just adding sugar and water to get it back up to about the original plume and gravity, and doing a second fermentation. Basically, a sugar head with a shit ton of backset. Because the backset is probably going to be way too acidic, I’d add some crushed shells as well. I’d also add some nutrients, and of course fresh yeast.

The logic is that the sugar in the apples got turned into alcohol, and I’ll pull that out with a striping run. Obviously, some other flavorful goodness is going to come out as well, but there’s still some left behind. Why not use as much of it as possible..i.e. all of it? I’m not going for a multi-generational thing here, just trying to see if I can get something with a nice flavor, possibly for panty droppers or making vinegar, or other more casual uses. My question is, is there any reason other than ph why you wouldn’t want to use that much backset, and can the ph be reasonably controlled with oyster shells or other similar options?
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Re: Apple “sugar head”?

Post by Ben »

Taste the backset, see if it is a flavor you want. If you like it figure out how to get the pH where you need it to be.

I don't think oyster shells are the right answer, they are going to take time to bring the pH up. I think you would be better off using a powdered carbonate. You want to bring the pH up quickly and get the yeast in there doing its thing, without being killed off by the acidity.
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Re: Apple “sugar head”?

Post by Steve Broady »

I can see that. I think before I taste it, I’ll do a little math and figure out how much sugar I’d be adding, then make a little sample with some simple syrup. That way I’ll have a better comparison against fresh apple juice.
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Re: Apple “sugar head”?

Post by subbrew »

For the PH control get some potassium carbonate. I have made a wine with Frontenac grapes which are quite acidic. Hard to ferment and the resulting wine was not very good for anything but using in a pot roast. Potassium carbonate did a good job of tempering that PH without adding too much sodium. The wine was still not good but it fermented better. I finally found a blend that allowed the depth of the frontenac to work with a softer, fruitier grape that turned out pretty good but that is for a different thread.
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Re: Apple “sugar head”?

Post by Steve Broady »

I made myself a little taste of backset, sweetened with simple syrup. It tasted like apple sauce, strangely enough. No horrible flavors, at least, so I decided to go with it. We shall see what happens. The pH was around 4 according to my test strips, so I reasoned that it's probably not too bad for the yeas as it site, but it needs something to keep it under control. I threw in a cup of oyster shells. They're cheap, and hopefully I didn't overdo it. Added some sugar, Fermax, DAP, and a pinch of epsom salt. Once it cools down enough, I'll pitch some yeast. It doesn't taste too bad as it sits right now, which is encouraging. This may be a complete failure, but what the heck. I'll learn something either way.
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Re: Apple “sugar head”?

Post by NZChris »

Make sure the yeast has some O2.
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Re: Apple “sugar head”?

Post by Steve Broady »

Will do! Thanks for the reminder.
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Re: Apple “sugar head”?

Post by Ben »

Sounds like you did things right, post up your results after the run!
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Re: Apple “sugar head”?

Post by Steve Broady »

Thanks, Ben. I will definitely keep people updated, as well as trying this again with the other batch of apples that I have going. I aerated the crap out of it with a 5 gallon mixer, then pitched a bunch (very technical measurement, I know) of bread yeast. I would have liked to go with something else, but I figured that it's cheap, and the wash was still a little on the warm side... somewhere around 105F. I've read that bread yeast is goo up to about 110, and had better heat tolerance than DADY or similar, so I went with that, and then went to work. If it's not going by now, I'll have my wife pitch something else in it. Am I the only one who has a collection of different yeasts?
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Re: Apple “sugar head”?

Post by Ben »

Nope, I keep 2 strains in my distilling fermenters, 1 more in the beer conical, a bank in the freezer, and DADY in the fridge for if things just don't go right. Love me some yeast :) Always fun to experiment with
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Re: Apple “sugar head”?

Post by Steve Broady »

My wife just sent me a video, it's bubbling away beautifully, and she says it smells good. So, yay, I didn't kill the yeast! I wish I'd remembered to take an initial gravity reading, but I forgot. Doesn't really matter, I know I used the right amount of sugar (8 lbs in a 6 gallon bucket, about the same as I do for UJSSM) and I'll get whatever I get anyway. I'll try to get it run as soon as it's done, since I don't think it'll improve any if I leave it sitting.
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Re: Apple “sugar head”?

Post by Steve Broady »

Ben wrote: Sat Nov 12, 2022 8:33 am Sounds like you did things right, post up your results after the run!
I just finished the stripping run. Once again, I put everything into the boiler (after buttering the bottom of the pot). Pulp, yeast, leftover oyster shells, and all. Haven’t done the spirit run yet, of course, but my first impression when tasting the low wines is that this stud is going to be good! There’s a ton of apple smell and flavor. I completely filled two 1 gallon carboys up to the neck, and stopped collecting with 3% coming off the spout just because I ran out of room. So it definitely made more than the original apples did. No great surprise there.

I’ll post an update again after the spirit run. Based on what I tasted today, I’m expecting a bit of that sugar shine flavor mixed with apple. If so, it should make an excellent sipper, or blend nicely in flavored concoctions. I’m thinking butterscotch moonshine will probably happen with this stuff.
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Re: Apple “sugar head”?

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Steve Broady wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 2:11 pm
Ben wrote: Sat Nov 12, 2022 8:33 am Sounds like you did things right, post up your results after the run!
I’ll post an update again after the spirit run.
Well, that took a while! I’ve had the low wines sitting in a corny keg for almost a year now. Just finished the spirit run. I haven’t made the cuts yet, but a few samples during the run suggest that there’s a ton of apple flavor here. The tails seem spicy, like cinnamon, clove, nutmeg… all the flavors that go so nicely with apples. And the heads smell great. I took about 200ml of foreshots off, and they smelled like apple in a lovely way.

So, either making an apple sugar head was a really good idea, resting the low wines for a year improved them, or I’ve just gotten better and making a decent product. We’ll have to see what the finished product tastes like. It’s definitely getting oak in some fashion. Maybe some apple and/or pecan as well.
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Re: Apple “sugar head”?

Post by subbrew »

Keep us informed Steve. Last week I finally tried my apple brandy. It is 2021 season apples, so around 20 months old. All stored on glass, some white and some on toasted but not charred oak. I am a bit disappointed, not a lot of apple flavor. Looking at my notes I see the late heads had apple aroma so I included quite a bit of them to get that aroma. And I can tell as there is definitely a burn still present due to the heads. But the apples seems very faint. I am going to trying adding a bit of simple syrup to see if that will bring on more apple.
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Re: Apple “sugar head”?

Post by malt_lover »

I haven’t tried it in brandy but in hard cider, adding Malic acid brings up apple flavor. May be make a small sample and see if it works.
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Re: Apple “sugar head”?

Post by Dancing4dan »

There were a lot of apples around this year. Wish there was a lot of time!

I had a fruit grinder back in the day that spat seed, core, skin and stems out one side and apple sauce out the other. Need to find one.

I would like to go around and “volunteer” pick apples. Most of them around here rot on the trees.
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