Leopold Brothers 3 chambered still

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Re: Leopold Brothers 3 chambered still

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bcook608 wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 7:24 am

I most definitely mind the manual labor lol :P
I'd rather spend time building it to scale hahaha
That makes two of us :)
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Re: Leopold Brothers 3 chambered still

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bcook608 wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 5:04 am I wonder if this could be scaled down to a series of 18"-24" diameter boilers for hobby scale. I'm assuming that one of the key design features is that the 4 chambers are equal in size so having a column on top of a large boiler would likely not produce the same effect.

This has the gears turning, that's for sure!
It looks pretty common in the rum making crowd. I would think the finished product between the two designs would be quite similar. The stacked design uses gravity to transfer the mash from boiler to boiler. I hate to use the term "semi-automatic" but that's what it is. You could put electrically operated valves and control everything with a computer program to be automatic but what fun would that be?
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Re: Leopold Brothers 3 chambered still

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6 Row Joe wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 8:14 am
bcook608 wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 5:04 am I wonder if this could be scaled down to a series of 18"-24" diameter boilers for hobby scale. I'm assuming that one of the key design features is that the 4 chambers are equal in size so having a column on top of a large boiler would likely not produce the same effect.

This has the gears turning, that's for sure!
It looks pretty common in the rum making crowd. I would think the finished product between the two designs would be quite similar. The stacked design uses gravity to transfer the mash from boiler to boiler. I hate to use the term "semi-automatic" but that's what it is. You could put electrically operated valves and control everything with a computer program to be automatic but what fun would that be? image.png
My lazy ass would think that's a world of fun! lol
Who needs patience when you have laziness :lol:
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Re: Leopold Brothers 3 chambered still

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StillerBoy wrote: Thu Oct 13, 2022 1:14 pm

The notes I have on the "sweet water" starts at 205*F for 20% ABV and at 208*F it's at 8%.. so there is still some alcohol left.. it has cross my mind to go deeper but at that state in the run, the take rate is slow, like 350ml per 15 min, and that's at 3500w of power on a 5500w element.. and when power is increased (4000w), the low wine is very cloudy where as at 3000w, it's just a little cloudy, and I use that "sweet water" to dilute the spirit down with instead of water..

Mars
This is a good point. On my last rum run a couple wknds ago I ran further into Tails than I usually do. Was just about to shut down and took a taste of take off. Suddenly the nasty taste was gone, detected a definite chocolate tast to, what was basically water. "Sweet water" is a very good descriptor for it. I ran 2 or 3 more jars of this, though there was virtually no ABV I thought it would add a real character to my rum that I haven't explored before.
I can see how this 3 chamber set up would bring out these flavors that we would rarely ever get from a pot still without going very deep into the wash after the ethanol is gone. The steam charge that is heating above chambers would be full of these flavors.
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Re: Leopold Brothers 3 chambered still

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NorthWoodsAb wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 9:50 am
StillerBoy wrote: Thu Oct 13, 2022 1:14 pm

The notes I have on the "sweet water" starts at 205*F for 20% ABV and at 208*F it's at 8%.. so there is still some alcohol left.. it has cross my mind to go deeper but at that state in the run, the take rate is slow, like 350ml per 15 min, and that's at 3500w of power on a 5500w element.. and when power is increased (4000w), the low wine is very cloudy where as at 3000w, it's just a little cloudy, and I use that "sweet water" to dilute the spirit down with instead of water..

Mars
This is a good point. On my last rum run a couple wknds ago I ran further into Tails than I usually do. Was just about to shut down and took a taste of take off. Suddenly the nasty taste was gone, detected a definite chocolate tast to, what was basically water. "Sweet water" is a very good descriptor for it. I ran 2 or 3 more jars of this, though there was virtually no ABV I thought it would add a real character to my rum that I haven't explored before.
I can see how this 3 chamber set up would bring out these flavors that we would rarely ever get from a pot still without going very deep into the wash after the ethanol is gone. The steam charge that is heating above chambers would be full of these flavors.
Cheers
I have heard the commercial distillers go below 10% on their stripping runs. I have ran down to 5% but not on purpose and didn't pay attention if I got any good flavors out of it. If you make cuts on the go, you could always toss out the wet cardboard tails and continuing collecting down to almost nothing. Proofing down with "sweetwater" sounds like a better idea than using tap water. Also I see Leopold barrels at 100 proof for a "softer" rye.
I'll find out middle of next week. I have a bottle coming.
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Re: Leopold Brothers 3 chambered still

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6 Row Joe wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 10:45 am I have heard the commercial distillers go below 10% on their stripping runs. I have ran down to 5% but not on purpose and didn't pay attention if I got any good flavors out of it.
Not to change the thread's subject, but in line with looking for additional flavor in the finished spirit, there is also some "sweet water" in the spirit run..

Must note that my rum spirit run (7 gal) is composed of low wine, wash, dunder, and some 95% spirited H/T.. and done with an LM reflux column in hybrid mode.. once the tails are taken out, there's some good flavored water in the back in also..

From a hobbyist point, the 3 chambers would not work well, as are overall batches are too small to really have meaning.. I'm of the view that we can improve by stripping deeper for some addition flavor that can be used/added.. I've been experiment with rum, but I'm of the view it can also apply to whiskey's..

Mars
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Re: Leopold Brothers 3 chambered still

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Pretty sure I'm gonna get this done for next years trade show season.

Bout a 17 gallon charge for each chamber if charged with 2/3rds of the total volume. May end up being a 15 gallon charge?

Ity bity charge for such a spendy outfit.
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Re: Leopold Brothers 3 chambered still

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LWTCS wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 10:59 am Pretty sure I'm gonna get this done for next years trade show season.

Bout a 17 gallon charge for each chamber if charged with 2/3rds of the total volume. May end up being a 15 gallon charge?

Ity bity charge for such a spendy outfit.
That looks real good. Keep us posted on your progress.
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Re: Leopold Brothers 3 chambered still

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I got my bottle today. This one is different and unusual. Because it is a pre- prohibition Rye and a old school recipe and procedure, is very rye and grain forward with a creamy mouth feel and a mild but long peppery finish. Not cheap but a fun one to add to my collection. It tastes like a home made high rye.
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Re: Leopold Brothers 3 chambered still

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6 Row Joe wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 12:34 pm I got my bottle today. This one is different and unusual. Because it is a pre- prohibition Rye and a old school recipe and procedure, is very rye and grain forward with a creamy mouth feel and a mild but long peppery finish. Not cheap but a fun one to add to my collection. It tastes like a home made high rye.
Nice,
Bad manners to ask what you paid?

Yeah I really like Todd's opinion about the oak being more subdued.
All of the medal winners at ACSA and really ADI too were simply over oaked in my opinion
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Re: Leopold Brothers 3 chambered still

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LWTCS wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 1:03 pm
6 Row Joe wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 12:34 pm I got my bottle today. This one is different and unusual. Because it is a pre- prohibition Rye and a old school recipe and procedure, is very rye and grain forward with a creamy mouth feel and a mild but long peppery finish. Not cheap but a fun one to add to my collection. It tastes like a home made high rye.
Nice,
Bad manners to ask what you paid?

Yeah I really like Todd's opinion about the oak being more subdued.
All of the medal winners at ACSA and really ADI too were simply over oaked in my opinion
More than I have ever paid. $230. It's not the most delicious rye I own but I am glad to have it in my collection. Old school Rye.
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Re: Leopold Brothers 3 chambered still

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6 Row Joe wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 1:10 pm
LWTCS wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 1:03 pm
6 Row Joe wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 12:34 pm I got my bottle today. This one is different and unusual. Because it is a pre- prohibition Rye and a old school recipe and procedure, is very rye and grain forward with a creamy mouth feel and a mild but long peppery finish. Not cheap but a fun one to add to my collection. It tastes like a home made high rye.
Nice,
Bad manners to ask what you paid?

Yeah I really like Todd's opinion about the oak being more subdued.
All of the medal winners at ACSA and really ADI too were simply over oaked in my opinion
More than I have ever paid. $230. It's not the most delicious rye I own but I am glad to have it in my collection. Old school Rye.

Like the Micters rye?
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Re: Leopold Brothers 3 chambered still

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LWTCS wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 2:23 pm
6 Row Joe wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 1:10 pm
LWTCS wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 1:03 pm
6 Row Joe wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 12:34 pm I got my bottle today. This one is different and unusual. Because it is a pre- prohibition Rye and a old school recipe and procedure, is very rye and grain forward with a creamy mouth feel and a mild but long peppery finish. Not cheap but a fun one to add to my collection. It tastes like a home made high rye.
Nice,
Bad manners to ask what you paid?

Yeah I really like Todd's opinion about the oak being more subdued.
All of the medal winners at ACSA and really ADI too were simply over oaked in my opinion
More than I have ever paid. $230. It's not the most delicious rye I own but I am glad to have it in my collection. Old school Rye.

Like the Micters rye?
I have a lot of ryes but none like this one. It isn't bad just different. A friend tasted it tonight and we thought the same. We settled on "organic". Like my last sample of a cigar batch, like horse barn. I didn't get that but my friend did. I don't think it would be as much the still as it was the grain bill/yeast combination.
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Re: Leopold Brothers 3 chambered still

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LWTCS wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 10:59 am Pretty sure I'm gonna get this done for next years trade show season.

Bout a 17 gallon charge for each chamber if charged with 2/3rds of the total volume. May end up being a 15 gallon charge?

Ity bity charge for such a spendy outfit.
wow, A+ on that CAD work; what program if you dont mind me asking? I dip down into my tails quite a bit and would love to build a concept like this with the gravity fed wash. How would you go about forming those 24" copper chambers? those a are no joke to have rolled with a flange, that'd be a very expensive part for the units size.
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Re: Leopold Brothers 3 chambered still

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The more I think about this still the more I realize the video is mostly marketing (good, effective marketing... A higher percentage of whiskey sales is marketing than it is good product). The design lends itself to being run without pumps or fancy fabrication, and I think that's why they were so common around the turn of the century. Modern continuous stills use (often multiple) pumps, precision machined fittings, things that were not commonly available pre-1920.

By running in batch mode you can bucket fill the pre-heat chamber while the rest is cooking off, gravity drain the backset to buckets, gravity feed between chambers. Very friendly to available tech around the turn of the 20th century.

People didn't get away from the design because it was miraculous at making good whisky, and they wanted that to make worse whisky. they got away from it because technology advanced in a way that allowed them to produce faster with less labor.

You can certainly build this sort of still with minimal tooling, no pumps, and minimal valving, really the valves wouldn't even have to seal all that well. Modern continuous designs would be a whole lot more difficult to build with primitive tech and without mass produced and machined parts.
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Re: Leopold Brothers 3 chambered still

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Ben wrote: Sat Oct 29, 2022 7:35 am The more I think about this still the more I realize the video is mostly marketing (good, effective marketing... A higher percentage of whiskey sales is marketing than it is good product). The design lends itself to being run without pumps or fancy fabrication, and I think that's why they were so common around the turn of the century. Modern continuous stills use (often multiple) pumps, precision machined fittings, things that were not commonly available pre-1920.

By running in batch mode you can bucket fill the pre-heat chamber while the rest is cooking off, gravity drain the backset to buckets, gravity feed between chambers. Very friendly to available tech around the turn of the 20th century.

People didn't get away from the design because it was miraculous at making good whisky, and they wanted that to make worse whisky. they got away from it because technology advanced in a way that allowed them to produce faster with less labor.

You can certainly build this sort of still with minimal tooling, no pumps, and minimal valving, really the valves wouldn't even have to seal all that well. Modern continuous designs would be a whole lot more difficult to build with primitive tech and without mass produced and machined parts.

I definitely see your point of view.
There are some distillers out there now that come from science background that firmly believe that today's modern whiskeys are better than those produced "back in the day" because the science/knowledge base/ equipment is just that much better today. It is easier to control the variables that affect outcome.

But it is also an objective point of view.
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Re: Leopold Brothers 3 chambered still

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I didn't mean to come off as being down on the still, or the distillery; quite the opposite. I think it is a brilliant marketing strategy, and it's nice to see something brought back from historical record, and that the design is still valid.

It's obvious from this discussion that the marketing is working, it has people talking, that's huge.
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Re: Leopold Brothers 3 chambered still

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TheBirdmann wrote: Sat Oct 29, 2022 5:45 am
LWTCS wrote: Tue Oct 18, 2022 10:59 am Pretty sure I'm gonna get this done for next years trade show season.

Bout a 17 gallon charge for each chamber if charged with 2/3rds of the total volume. May end up being a 15 gallon charge?

Ity bity charge for such a spendy outfit.
wow, A+ on that CAD work; what program if you dont mind me asking? I dip down into my tails quite a bit and would love to build a concept like this with the gravity fed wash. How would you go about forming those 24" copper chambers? those a are no joke to have rolled with a flange, that'd be a very expensive part for the units size.
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Re: Leopold Brothers 3 chambered still

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IronCad.

Chamber bodies will get rolled and the flanges lazer cut.
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Re: Leopold Brothers 3 chambered still

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Ok the team here thinks the pedestals are too blocky so we made em more narrow.
Also incorporated the thumper to allow for spirit runs. Seemed stupid to not have that capability.
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Re: Leopold Brothers 3 chambered still

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That's great stuff, you building this out for production?
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Re: Leopold Brothers 3 chambered still

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TheBirdmann wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 1:23 pm That's great stuff, you building this out for production?
Well hopefully,.
This particular iteration should really targeted toward well capitalized outfits like Brown Foreman. Or learning institutions like UC Davis, University of Michigan, or Hariot -Watt University.
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Re: Leopold Brothers 3 chambered still

Post by bcook608 »

Is that condenser going to be in a huge sight glass?
That would be amazing!
I wish I had the money to set up something like that! It's beautiful :O
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Re: Leopold Brothers 3 chambered still

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bcook608 wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 7:19 pm Is that condenser going to be in a huge sight glass?
That would be amazing!
I wish I had the money to set up something like that! It's beautiful :O
Yessir.
We will run the cooling media through the coil so that we can observe the condensation form and drip off of the coil.
Again the small production capability of this fairly expensive still is best served as a learning tool or recipe development still.
The coil condenser design is not optimal but is consistent with the still technology of the day.
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Re: Leopold Brothers 3 chambered still

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Here's a link to a Fred Minnick interview.
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Re: Leopold Brothers 3 chambered still

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I am doing laundry today and in between loads, straightening up the storeroom where I keep most of my bottles. (about 250 so far)
I shouldn't have been so hasty to judge this Rye. I poured out a dram and let it set for 15 min. or so. It is sweet, bisquit, and floral on the nose.
Sweet and floral on the palate followed by a smooth transition to rye spice mid palate. It has a wonderful creamy mouth feel. The spice and alcohol flares out on the back of the tongue and warms the throat. The finish is long and sweet containing the rye and bread spices. You can still taste it 10+ min. after your last sip. It's not like any of the ryes I own.
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Re: Leopold Brothers 3 chambered still

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6 Row Joe wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 9:20 am I am doing laundry today and in between loads, straightening up the storeroom where I keep most of my bottles. (about 250 so far)
I shouldn't have been so hasty to judge this Rye. I poured out a dram and let it set for 15 min. or so. It is sweet, bisquit, and floral on the nose.
Sweet and floral on the palate followed by a smooth transition to rye spice mid palate. It has a wonderful creamy mouth feel. The spice and alcohol flares out on the back of the tongue and warms the throat. The finish is long and sweet containing the rye and bread spices. You can still taste it 10+ min. after your last sip. It's not like any of the ryes I own.

Yeah sometimes ya have to revisit in order to really get your head around what is being revealed.
Baller does that to me.
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Re: Leopold Brothers 3 chambered still

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Even from one sip to the next it feels like things can change.

I have to warm up my pallet with something more basic otherwise I find it a bit too much to take in. Basically desensitizing a bit. Also have to slow my brain down a bit to cope with all of the different things going on. Anytime the whiskey does more than two things on my pallet I'm a fan.
Do 3 or 4 things on my pallet and I'm super impressed.

My friend on the otherhand much preferred his pallet to be completely fresh.

How many pony tricks does the Leopold have up it's sleave?
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Re: Leopold Brothers 3 chambered still

Post by shadylane »

LWTCS wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 11:33 am
How many pony tricks does the Leopold have up it's sleave?
An energy efficient stripper is the first thing I think of.
While also extracting the most alcohol and flavor out of a thin mash.
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Re: Leopold Brothers 3 chambered still

Post by squigglefunk »

LWTCS wrote: Thu Nov 10, 2022 11:33 am Even from one sip to the next it feels like things can change.
the more I sip the better it tastes for sure
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