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I have branched out a bit and now am experimenting with a coffee mash. My question is which enzyme to use if any. Coffee is technically a bean/fruit. Would it be pectic enzyme or amylase or both?

If you are using whole fresh fruit, you might not need any enzymes.

Thank you for the reply. Folders breakfast blend. Mild roast. 2 lb in each 5 gallon carboy with 6 lbs of sugar. I put the amalyse in. Thinking the coffee is dry and carb like. It may help or may not. I did not put in the pectic enzyme. We will see what happens. Hope it has the spirit coffee flavor.
I am using red star dady yeast. It is working away as we speak. Fingers crossed.

After roasting I doubt that there is anything left to convert or ferment, so it's all about the flavor.

Let us know how it goes.

Definitely interested to see what if any flavors carry over. Might be useful for those of us looking to make our own take on Kahlua.

For a true coffee liquor I have used both made coffee and beans. Made coffee was better. Did a cold maceration of coffee, sugar, rum, vodka.

I also did a chocolate coffee Porter and it was just a beer that was super heavy in chocolate malt. Turn out that is what gives a coffee flavor after fermentation. The taste comes over in the distillate. Had a friend who bought a bottle of it and had not finished it, so got to try it over the holiday. Still an interesting whiskey.

bcook608 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 26, 2022 8:34 pm Definitely interested to see what if any flavors carry over. Might be useful for those of us looking to make our own take on Kahlua.

There are plenty of good recipes around for making Kahlua style liqueurs that don't require starting with fermenting roasted coffee beans, but I bet they could all be improved by using a coffee bean based sugar wash spirit rather than Birdwatcher's, SSS, or TFFV, etc.

NZChris wrote: ↑Sat Nov 26, 2022 9:17 pm

bcook608 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 26, 2022 8:34 pm Definitely interested to see what if any flavors carry over. Might be useful for those of us looking to make our own take on Kahlua.

There are plenty of good recipes around for making Kahlua style liqueurs that don't require starting with fermenting roasted coffee beans, but I bet they could all be improved by using a coffee bean based sugar wash spirit rather than Birdwatcher's, SSS, or TFFV, etc.

Yeah, I have a couple of those recipes bookmarked for when I get around to my neutral spirit run (probably going to be a couple weeks out). But if the flavor carries over well enough, it might enhance the recipes found here having the coffee flavor in the base spirit even if it is very subtle.

Except for the flesh of the ripe berries and the sugars in the raw beans, I doubt that there is much in the way of fermentables to be had.

I have made a very nice liqueur using coffee berry flesh.

I propose that a sugar wash using spent coffee beans for nutrients would make an economical and desirable base spirit for Kahlua clones using the online recipes.

NZChris wrote: ↑Sat Nov 26, 2022 9:59 pm I propose that a sugar wash using spent coffee beans for nutrients would make an economical and desirable base spirit for Kahlua clones using the online recipes.

Great, now I have to start saving up used coffee grounds!

In NZ, you can get them free from coffee shops. They are good for the garden and in your compost.

Tried infusing coffee grounds from our bakery in some spirit.

Tasted just like coffee grounds. Yuk.

Those coffee machines sure leave NO coffee flavour.

Geoff

The Baker wrote: ↑Sun Nov 27, 2022 5:47 am Tried infusing coffee grounds from our bakery in some spirit.

Tasted just like coffee grounds. Yuk.

Those coffee machines sure leave NO coffee flavour.

Geoff

The good flavor is in the oils of the bean, which is what's washed away in the brewing process. Fresh roasted or green coffee will have the most to give.

According to this paper:

https://www.mdpi.com/2306-5710/4/4/105/htm

Get used coffee grounds, microwave with water (this part of the process I don't understand well).
Add sugar at about 180g/L.
Ferment - to around 10% ABV.
Distill.
Produce something 'acceptable'.

tommysb wrote: ↑Sun Nov 27, 2022 12:30 pm According to this paper:

https://www.mdpi.com/2306-5710/4/4/105/htm

Get used coffee grounds, microwave with water (this part of the process I don't understand well).
Add sugar at about 180g/L.
Ferment - to around 10% ABV.
Distill.
Produce something 'acceptable'.

They went to a lot of trouble to do something that is very easy.

Making coffee wine is not new, there are plenty of recipes to be found on the internet.

In fact, searching "country wine recipes" to convert to distillate would be a very decent 3am rabbit hole to go down.....

Armyman82ND wrote: ↑Sat Nov 26, 2022 2:37 pm I have branched out a bit and now am experimenting with a coffee mash. My question is which enzyme to use if any. Coffee is technically a bean/fruit. Would it be pectic enzyme or amylase or both?

So here is the update:
I am super happy with it! Great coffee flavor. Not a huge coffee smell but the taste is there.
I ended up not using any pectic enzymes.

I used two 5 gallon water bottles. I cooked 6 lbs of fresh ground Foldgers Breakfast Blend coffee in two pots. 2 lbs in each pot. I added 6 pounds of sugar to each pot. I poured each into a water bottle with about filled each to about the 4 1/2 gallon mark with water. I let them cool to temp. Agitated to oxygenate and then added my yeast.
I popped on the bubble up and let er perk.
When it was finished working the wine had the coffee oil floating on top.
For the distillation:
I added 1/2 pound of fresh ground coffee into the pot and the other half pound into the thumper with about a pound of sugar. I distilled it slow and low. Tossed the heads and ended up with 5 qts. 140p, 130p, 120p, 110p and 100p. Cut it with spring H2O and ended up with 6qts at 100p.


I have French vanilla syrup to go in it that I haven't tried yet. We shall see how it goes.

Thanks for the input.

I would heat the water, steep the beans for less than 5 minutes, then add sugar and ferment. The stuff pulled from coffee in long extracts isn't very desirable (try a cup of Turkish coffee that's been sitting on beans for a half hour). It's part of why pour over is done in under 5 minutes (the beans are ground with intent to hit that mark), and a big part of why espresso carries the flavor it does is the fast extraction. It's also why coffee made in giant batches at shitty truck stops tastes different than what comes out of your drip machine at home.

If you were using green beans the process would be different, but green coffee has already gone through a fermentation at the plantation... there isn't much left in them that can't be extracted with just a roast, grind and quick dip in hot water.

If you want a meaningful contribution from coffee solids in the ferment you will need to source coffee cherries (the fruit that surrounds the bean). You can usually find them dry.

I made a coffee run with three bottles of instant coffee (store brand) 20lbs of sugar in a 20 gallon fermenter. Used Dady and it damn near blew up. My fermenter had wash all over the lid and some on the outside. I got a quart of 30 proof out of a one gallon run (I do small runs on experimental washes) Anyway it was a success! I took every half gallon made and rerun it filling the rest of a one gallon still with fresh wash. It was smooth and came out around 110 proof. Already in the mind to do a larger run. Just my experience. As we all know that can vary but I enjoyed it.

Ncshinebaby wrote: ↑Fri Dec 20, 2024 11:16 am I made a coffee run with three bottles of instant coffee (store brand).

How much coffee is that?

OK. For those who are able to source the green coffee cherries, and fancy fermenting them and distilling be warned... They are one of the strongest sources of pectin, and the methanol levels are actually high. This is the one, rare case where you could get methanol poisoning without adulteration of the distilled spirit. I'll see if I can dig up the reference, but I read a paper on the subject not that long ago (I think I even posted it here already).

Edit to add:
OK. I don't seem to have posted the original paper, but I have mentioned it a few times. The interested can read it here.

A key quote from the results section.

Only the methanol concentration increased from head to heart to tail fractions. Methanol, a substance that is harmful to human health in certain quantities, was found in elevated concentrations in all distillates. The identified level of methanol in the heart fractions were 1565, 1645 and 1516 g/hL pa (YC, YI, BT).

YC, YI, & BT were the varieties of coffee cherry tested. The spirits were double distilled and cuts were made by "sensory evaluation". Distillate from the spirit run was collected in 50ml samples. (Looks like they had been reading HD!). The EU limit on methanol (g/hL pure alcohol) is 1500. Meaning each of their samples exceeded the limit. From memory, the worst year's production of poire william (The "worst performing" spirit regarding methanol) resulted in around 1400g/hL pa! The EU limit is not based on empirical data. You will not necessarily drop dead from drinking coffee cherry brandy. But this is one case where unless the flavour was amazing, I'd compost the cherries and use the compost to help grow something less toxic!

Edit again to add more:
This is the original article (Turns out I did post it. Despite the word soup in this post, I have not drunk anything stronger than tea this evening!). It's looking into methanol reducing techniques in light of the high methanol levels in coffee cherry spirits.

I'll shut up now!

How much coffee is that?
[/quote]
3 × 12oz jars. Sorry for not elaborating NZChris...I actually figured no one would be interested when they saw that it was instant coffee. Lol! Truth is we are just looking for coffee flavor. Of course no caffeine comes through but the flavor is all there. Probably make some excellent sipping cream but I have not done that.

I'm gonna give this a try, I love coffee.

Rusty