Stillhouse Bourbon - experimental recipe

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Steve Broady
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Stillhouse Bourbon - experimental recipe

Post by Steve Broady »

A little background: On September 27, 1903, Southern Railway train #97 derailed in Danville, Virginia, on Stillhouse Trestle. Engineer Steve Broady and 10 other people died in the wreck, and it became the inspiration for a popular folk/country song.

If you care to know more, this would be as good a place as any to start reading. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wreck_of_the_Old_97

The wreck is interesting to me for several reasons, and is the inspiration for the name I use here. That, plus the name of the trestle inspired the name for this, my first serious attempt at a good bourbon recipe.

I make no claims to great wisdom or insight or skill in creating a recipe. This is a direct result of a recent visit to a homebrew store where I bought a few things that seemed interesting to me, including buying him out of all the locally produced 2 row malt that he had in stock. I’ll attempt to explain my thoughts for everything as I go.

The first section (to use some railroad terminology):
50 lbs of cracked corn
16 lbs of 2 row barley malt
5 lbs of Breiss 120L caramel malt
5 lbs of flaked rye
5 lbs of toasted rolled oats
45 gallons of water

All of the above divided into 10 equal portions, to fit into my 6 gallon fermentation buckets. On all but the first batch, replace 1/2 gallon of water with backset from a previous run. Standard mashing procedure, bring the water to 190 F, add the corn and high temperature enzymes and hold. Bring down to 150 F and add the rest of the grain, along with some extra liquid enzymes and beta glucanase to help break down the rye and oats. When cool enough, pitch yeast (I have Lallemand Distillamax XP, which is what I’ll likely use. Also have DADY and Red Star baker’s yeast, which are options).

Hopefully all the ingredients are pretty common, in case anyone else is interested in trying the recipe, and to prevent me from being locked into a single supplier if this turns out good enough that I want to keep making it.

The corn is obviously there because it’s bourbon, and because corn is cheap and readily available.

The barley is also standard, for both flavor and enzymes. Carolina Malt House claims to have won awards with their Carolina Gold 2 row, so hopefully I have a decent product.

The caramel malt is supposed to give sweetness and fruity, raisin notes. I’m hoping that will provide balance and complexity to the finished spirit.

The rye is there for a little spice and complexity, and just because I like rye.

The toasted oatmeal will hopefully give some nice oatmeal cookie notes and improve the mouthfeel of the spirit.

Ferment on the grain, and either steam strip or squeeze and then strip off the grain. Collect the low wines and run through a pot still, making fairly wide cuts for aging. Save the heads for a neutral, recycle the tails into the next spirit run. Blend and age on new charred and toasted oak.

The second section:
Reserve 1/2 gallon of backset from the stripping run, to go into the next mash. If necessary, add calcium carbonate to raise the pH, though I’ve read that it’s generally not needed for the second generation. Add 8 lbs of white sugar to the rest of the backset and the grain (if you stripped off the grain, put it back in). Add a tablespoon of yeast nutrient, half a teaspoon of DSP, and a pinch of Epsom salt. 2-3 tablespoon of oyster shells can’t hurt, though I’m not sure if they’re needed with all the spent grain still present. Add water to get back to the original volume.
When cool, pitch more yeast and ferment again.

There’s more sugar than in the original AG recipe, to make up for the fact that you’re going to make narrower cuts and treat this more like moonshine than bourbon. I’ve done some research and found a few references to success using 100% of the backset in a sugar head, so it’s all in there in order to get the most flavor. With a little luck, this stuff might age well and at least be competitive with some of the more average bourbons on the market, but I see it more as something to sip on right away, or blend into flavored moonshine concoctions.

Distill same as before, including recycling the tails. Make narrower cuts, since the sugar head is probably better suited to drinking white.
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Re: Stillhouse Bourbon - experimental recipe

Post by Bradster68 »

Interesting write up. I figured Steve Broady was actually your name and you just had balls to put it out for everyone to see. :crazy:
Looks to be a good recipe.
I'm curious about the 150 temp and the gluco addition.
Is that not too hot for it?
I'm still trying to figure out the whole enzyme thing. I just did a mash tonight and added mine at 125. I read it denatures at 130 or higher. Are we talking about the same enzyme? Here is something I dug up from the archives which helped me out alot.
The old post reads:
Sorry to correct you loneswinger but gluco amylase, beta amylase and alpha amylase are 3 different enzymes that do 3 different things. The common enzymes sold for mashing unmalted grains are alpha amylase and gluco amylase poor ol' beta isn't usually included because it's just not necessary especially if you are using the gluco amylase because it basically does the same thing and more.

Alpha amylase converts starch to oligosaccarides, (complex sugars or sugars made up of multiple glucose units configured in long and branched chains) Gluco amylase cleans up after alpha breaking the chains into small individual glucose units which are most easily absorbed by yeast cells.

Here is a decent summary of the three and what they do, where they come from etc... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amylase
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Re: Stillhouse Bourbon - experimental recipe

Post by Steve Broady »

Thanks for the reality check on the gluco. I’ve got notes on appropriate temperature, and I’ll double check that before I put it in. I don’t know if it would be necessary with such a low percentage of the grain bill, but I have it and I figure it can’t hurt.
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Re: Stillhouse Bourbon - experimental recipe

Post by jonnys_spirit »

I like it Steve Broady. The backstory and intent means a lot and will add perhaps a dark complexity to the likker.

Cheers!
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Re: Stillhouse Bourbon - experimental recipe

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Steve Broady wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 8:12 pm Thanks for the reality check on the gluco. I’ve got notes on appropriate temperature, and I’ll double check that before I put it in. I don’t know if it would be necessary with such a low percentage of the grain bill, but I have it and I figure it can’t hurt.
I would appreciate u letting me know for my own needs🍻
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Re: Stillhouse Bourbon - experimental recipe

Post by higgins »

Steve,
That looks like a pretty tasty grain bill, but somewhat unconventional for a bourbon mash with malt at 20% and rye at 6%.

The vast majority of commercial bourbons contain more rye than malt (notable exceptions are Jack Daniels and Heaven Hill bourbons). I think with 20% malt you'll get a bit of a 'scotchy' character in it, which is not to say that is a bad thing. Caramel 120 won't generate any fermentable sugars (at least it doesn't in beer, but with Gluco added it might). At first it looked a bit heavy handed to me, but 5% is about the upper limit for a beer so it may be OK. It should add a ton of raisiny character and sweetness.

I've built a spreadsheet since I began stillin that helps me develop recipes and predict volumes. After 15+ batches of AG whiskeys & rums, tweaking my spreadsheet after each batch, I find that it is pretty accurate.

I've put this recipe into my spreadsheet, and using an efficiency setting of 75% it tells me I'd get about 38 gallons of beer at about 6.4% ABV, which would yield about 1.4 gallons of product after cuts. Of course, these are only estimates, but I find that my 'predictions' are pretty close, generally within about 10%.

I say go for it.
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Re: Stillhouse Bourbon - experimental recipe

Post by Steve Broady »

higgins wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 7:13 am That looks like a pretty tasty grain bill, but somewhat unconventional for a bourbon mash with malt at 20% and rye at 6%.
I like unconventional! Ideally, I would like this to be something unique and special enough that I can share it and have people appreciate it for its own character. Realistically, I’ll be happy if it’s better than what I can buy for a reasonable price.
higgins wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 7:13 am The vast majority of commercial bourbons contain more rye than malt (notable exceptions are Jack Daniels and Heaven Hill bourbons). I think with 20% malt you'll get a bit of a 'scotchy' character in it, which is not to say that is a bad thing.


Good thing I like scotch. My thought with the rye is more as a background spice, rather than a dominant flavor. Kind of like the way I put salt and cayenne pepper into my cinnamon rolls. There’s not enough of either for you to notice them, but they give it a much more interesting and complexly flavor, enhancing the dominant flavors.

I was a little concerned that it was too little malt, to be honest. I know there’s not enough for a full conversion, which is why I’ll add enzymes as well.
higgins wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 7:13 am Caramel 120 won't generate any fermentable sugars (at least it doesn't in beer, but with Gluco added it might).
I assume it’s still got starch in it, right? If so, it should provide some fermentable sugar after milling and mashing and adding enzymes. At least, that’s my hope. If all it adds is flavor, that’s good too.
higgins wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 7:13 am I've put this recipe into my spreadsheet, and using an efficiency setting of 75% it tells me I'd get about 38 gallons of beer at about 6.4% ABV, which would yield about 1.4 gallons of product after cuts. Of course, these are only estimates, but I find that my 'predictions' are pretty close, generally within about 10%.
I am hoping for a little more that that, of course, but my attitude is that I get what I get. Better to focus on quality, and just make more if I want more. I’m curious, does your spreadsheet have any allowance for recycling the feints, which should hopefully increase yield a little bit? Also, I’m hoping that slightly wider cuts with long aging in mind might mean slightly greater yield. But again, quality over quantity.
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Re: Stillhouse Bourbon - experimental recipe

Post by Steve Broady »

Bradster68 wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 2:55 am
Steve Broady wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 8:12 pm Thanks for the reality check on the gluco. I’ve got notes on appropriate temperature, and I’ll double check that before I put it in. I don’t know if it would be necessary with such a low percentage of the grain bill, but I have it and I figure it can’t hurt.
I would appreciate u letting me know for my own needs🍻
My notes say that ViscoSEB L should be used between 45-60 C. So, you’re right. That’s 113-140 F. With that in mind, I’ll add it once the mash starts to cool down a little, but before pitching the yeast.
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Re: Stillhouse Bourbon - experimental recipe

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Steve Broady wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 8:15 am
Bradster68 wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 2:55 am
Steve Broady wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 8:12 pm Thanks for the reality check on the gluco. I’ve got notes on appropriate temperature, and I’ll double check that before I put it in. I don’t know if it would be necessary with such a low percentage of the grain bill, but I have it and I figure it can’t hurt.
I would appreciate u letting me know for my own needs🍻
My notes say that ViscoSEB L should be used between 45-60 C. So, you’re right. That’s 113-140 F. With that in mind, I’ll add it once the mash starts to cool down a little, but before pitching the yeast.
Good to know SB. THANKS
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Re: Stillhouse Bourbon - experimental recipe

Post by Ben »

Gluco is probably not necessary for what you are doing, adds complexity, it requires a step mash to be really effective and that's backwards from the temperature order you are working in. If you were using 30% rye it might be worth while, my house bourbon is 18% rye and I haven't seen a need. I would just ignore it and add some rice hulls in the future if it becomes a problem during sparge or squeeze.

I can't tell if your sacch temp is 150 or if you are using the grain to bring the temp down further. You should get a drier finish (better conversion) if your main sachh rest is around 145 and drops down a few degrees during the rest.

Looks like a good recipe, I like the darker caramel malts. Should be down home plate classic bourbon with a little extra malt character.
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Re: Stillhouse Bourbon - experimental recipe

Post by higgins »

Steve Broady wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 8:09 am I was a little concerned that it was too little malt, to be honest. I know there’s not enough for a full conversion, which is why I’ll add enzymes as well.
higgins wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 7:13 am Caramel 120 won't generate any fermentable sugars (at least it doesn't in beer, but with Gluco added it might).
I assume it’s still got starch in it, right? If so, it should provide some fermentable sugar after milling and mashing and adding enzymes. At least, that’s my hope. If all it adds is flavor, that’s good too.
I should have said that "caramel 120 won't generate very much fermentable sugar".

Crystal malts are made by adding a 'stewing' step between malting and drying. The malt is kept moist and held at saccharification temperatures before drying, which converts most of the starch to complex crystalized, caramelized sugars. There may be a small amount of starch remaining. Some of the caramelized sugars are fermentable, with one estimate of about 40% fermentable sugars in Crystal/Caramel 10, decreasing as the color increases. I don't know if our distillers enzymes will simplify those complex sugars.

It takes around 30 degrees Lintner (diastatic power) to convert a pound of grain. Your 81 lb grain bill should take about 2400 dL to convert. Your 16 lb of pale malt will contribute nearly 2000 dL (6 row would be over 2500 dL).

My spreadsheet does have the ability to use both feints and reserved wash in the estimation of low wines qty & abv.
StrippingSection.png
StrippingSection.png (13.1 KiB) Viewed 2440 times
NOTE: I strip until low wines collection is 30%
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Re: Stillhouse Bourbon - experimental recipe

Post by 8Ball »

The Caramel & Barley are going to come across nice — rich & sweet, with a little rye bite. Sounds good. 👍
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Re: Stillhouse Bourbon - experimental recipe

Post by BrewinBrian44 »

Recipe looks good! I still haven’t tried crystal malts other than honey malt. I’m curious what flavors light crystal vs dark crystal can bring to the table. Dark crystal in beer definitely amps up sweetness and body, but I’ve found it’s a bit much. Could be tasty in a distilled beverage. Curious to see your results!
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Re: Stillhouse Bourbon - experimental recipe

Post by Steve Broady »

Well, I’m committed. My wife and I spent about an hour and a half last night measuring out all the grain for this recipe and vacuum bagging enough for ten 5 gallon batches. I opted to use malted corn, which means that everything can be ground and mashed together. I realize that 90 lbs of grain is nothing to a lot of folks here, but it’s by far the most I’ve even considered and will likely take me a year just to get through.

I have to say, it smelled wonderful as we were weighing it out. That 120L smells like Raisin Bran. I’m hopeful that this will make a good bourbon.
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Re: Stillhouse Bourbon - experimental recipe

Post by Steve Broady »

The first batch is in the fermenter as we speak. I tweaked the recipe slightly:
50 lbs malted corn
16 lbs 2 row malted barley
5 lbs Breiss 120L caramel malt
5 lbs flaked rye
5.25 lbs instant oatmeal

I gave the oatmeal a light toast, cooked, and then divided everything into 10 batches and vacuum bagged them. The last bag was a little bit off most of the measurements, since I just used whatever was left after carefully weighing out the other 9 batches.
93144FBE-90CC-46BB-A268-11AD4B2024FE.jpeg
Last night, I ground everything in that last bag twice using a corona mill, until it was a mix of fine flour and ground meal. It all went into a cleaned and sanitized cooler, along with 4.5 gallons of water at 156 degrees Fahrenheit. Final temperature after mixing all the dough balls out was 149 F. I added 2 ml SEBstar HTL, 2 ml ViscoSEB L, and 3 ml SEBamyl GL, gave it a good stir, then closed the lid.

12 hours later, the temperature dropped to around 100 F, and I transferred everything into a bucket for fermentation. Prior to moving it, I reserved a pint of liquid from the top and set that aside in a mason jar. I measured the gravity at 1.044, which should be about 1.049 after correcting for temperature.

The reserved wort was allowed to cool, and I added a packed of S-04 ale yeast. Once the rest of the batch cools down enough, I’ll pitch the starter into it, and keep it under an airlock for a month or so.
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Re: Stillhouse Bourbon - experimental recipe

Post by bilgriss »

Sounds good. I am a fan of a bourbon with slightly more malt than average. It gives it a......maltiness that is nice. The toasted oats will add just a little body and depth.

It's not likely that you should need a full month under airlock. But it won't hurt it.
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Re: Stillhouse Bourbon - experimental recipe

Post by Steve Broady »

bilgriss wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 4:48 pm It's not likely that you should need a full month under airlock. But it won't hurt it.
I’ve read that it takes a fair bit of time for some of the more complex esters to develop, especially from a low temperature fermentation using ale yeast. I also don’t mind encouraging a little bit of an infection, if one wants to show up. All about building flavor.

Of course, I have no idea if it really makes any difference or not, but that fits in well with my schedule anyway. 3-4 weeks seems to be about the normal turnaround time for me on most things.Sonora likely to get that whether it needs it or not. But knowing that, I made sure to use my good sealing lid with an airlock, rather than the open fermentation that I more often do.
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Re: Stillhouse Bourbon - experimental recipe

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I just ran my first striping run on this recipe. I let it ferment/rest for a month, then siphoned the clear beer into the boiler. Tasting the low wines as they were coming off the still, this stuff is shaping up to be really tasty. The beer was very nice as well.

I pressed the grain and am leaving that to settle. I’ll rack the cleared liquid off and add it to the spirit run, and harvest the yeast for the next batch.

I’m excited to see how this turns out.
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Re: Stillhouse Bourbon - experimental recipe

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Steve Broady wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 11:03 am I just ran my first striping run on this recipe. I let it ferment/rest for a month, then siphoned the clear beer into the boiler. Tasting the low wines as they were coming off the still, this stuff is shaping up to be really tasty. The beer was very nice as well.

I pressed the grain and am leaving that to settle. I’ll rack the cleared liquid off and add it to the spirit run, and harvest the yeast for the next batch.

I’m excited to see how this turns out.
Well done Steve. There will be nothing better than producing your own tasty bourbon. I wish I could sample with ya.🍻
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Re: Stillhouse Bourbon - experimental recipe

Post by Steve Broady »

Come on down out of the great white north, and there’s a glass here for you any time.

How hard is it to ship BBQ marinade across the border?

Of course, you could always try making some yourself..
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Re: Stillhouse Bourbon - experimental recipe

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Steve Broady wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 12:06 pm Come on down out of the great white north, and there’s a glass here for you any time.

How hard is it to ship BBQ marinade across the border?

Of course, you could always try making some yourself..
I'm on it Steve. Iv got about 3 different bourbon recipe aging on oak. Hard not to touch it. I gotta leave for a few days,but when I come back I gotta many pounds of grains waiting. imma brew up as to get my stock building.
I'm guessing border patrol would be all over that stuff and probably confiscated ( for evidence of course😉). And absolutely if I'm ever that way I'll look ya up and visa versa for you.
We do get warm weather here,I would never make u stay in my igloo🤣🤣🤣
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Re: Stillhouse Bourbon - experimental recipe

Post by Steve Broady »

Because this recipe has a bit lower grain to water ratio, and because I’m far from an expert on mashing, my first stripping run resulted in low wines that are far too low proof (about 15% ABV) for a spirit run. I might have waited too late to shut down, as well… :oops:

After reading a few old threads, I’ve come to the conclusion that the best way to deal with that is to save them and add them to the next batch of wash once it’s done fermenting. Then, strip to a more reasonable proof, somewhere between 20-25% ABV. For future batches, I can add the feints from the last spirit run into the wash which should both recycle some flavor and raise the proof.

It turns out that making good whiskey takes some practice and a few wrong turns along the way. Who knew?
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Re: Stillhouse Bourbon - experimental recipe

Post by Steve Broady »

I seem to have picked a bit of a prophetic name for this one. That, or it’s decided to live up to the name given. This project has been a bit of a train wreck so far, mostly because of cockiness, inexperience, and trying to go too fast. Hopefully it’ll at least be worthy of a song some day!

I’m on batch #3 at the moment. Each batch is about 5 gallons total volume, roughly 4 gallons of liquid if I’m thorough in squeezing. For batches 1&2, I didn’t grind fine enough, got poor conversion, and on #2 I added the backset in with the mashing water, which seems to have make it too acidic and also screwed up the conversion. I also ran the strip for #1 too long and ended up with low wines at about 15%. I threw them back in with #2 and stripped the whole lot, and ended up with about 1.5 gallons from both.

At least what I have smells and tastes wonderful. And batch #3 got much better conversion, hitting 1.060 comfortably. But I overfilled the fermenter, and it overflowed and made a mess.

Maybe by the time I’m through all 10 batches, I’ll have this process down.
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Re: Stillhouse Bourbon - experimental recipe

Post by Steve Broady »

I FINALLY sat down tonight and picked out my cuts from jars that I ran last week (they’ve been sitting covered the whole time, waiting patiently). This is the first spirit run on this recipe, so I was very curious to see how it turned out.

I taste the rye, especially up front. But the overwhelming flavor, especially on the finish, is of Raisin Bran cereal. I’m thrilled to have it come out like this, because that’s exactly what I was hoping for. I can’t wait to see what it’ll do on oak.
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Re: Stillhouse Bourbon - experimental recipe

Post by Dougmatt »

Man…. I would so like to try that. Really disappointed I have to miss the meetup. Hope you guys have a blast!
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Re: Stillhouse Bourbon - experimental recipe

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I’ve had the first of this stuff sitting in a corny keg with a couple pieces of charred oak for a few months now. Last night, my wife and I decided to have a little sample. Bear in mind that she’s pretty new to the idea of liking whiskey, and generally prefers something a little lower proof. We sampled it at barrel proof, and both of us were thoroughly impressed. We also agreed that we preferred it barrel proof to cut.

This stuff is still young, I know. My goal is to make enough to fill a 5 gallon barrel, so it’s just in the keg until I make enough. But already, I’m loving it. It’s got an interesting raisin and grain character that I can only describe as Raisin Bran, and I have to remind myself that this is 100% all grain whiskey. I am no connoisseur or whisky expert, but there is something there that I don’t recall having tasted in any whiskey before. I think it’s going to be a recipe I continue to make and will be proud to share as it ages, and as my skills improve.
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Re: Stillhouse Bourbon - experimental recipe

Post by Wildcats »

Sounds great SB!!!
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Re: Stillhouse Bourbon - experimental recipe

Post by Dougmatt »

Cut those head out and sipping is easier at barrel proof! Also when proofing down, it will likely smooth out in a couple of weeks after it has a chance to settle again. Takes a little while. Step proofing is also a good idea.
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Re: Stillhouse Bourbon - experimental recipe

Post by Steve Broady »

This was a VERY loose and uncontrolled proofing down. We had a glencairn with the sample in it, and just added a little water at very roughly half the volume of the whiskey. I’m sure we could have done better if we’d tried harder.

But yeah, cutting the heads out made it easy to drink barrel proof.
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Stonecutter
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Re: Stillhouse Bourbon - experimental recipe

Post by Stonecutter »

Congratulations JoBro :thumbup:
I prefer that sampling method myself. Keep the updates coming Brother

it’s nice when you start to begin to feel that you’re getting an eye for the proofing.
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