adding heated water to a boiler while running

[Tōtōchtin]

Tried searching found nothing but other interesting threads. Would adding water towards the middle end of a run help with tails. Adding heated water to the boiler I don't believe would cause smearing or separation, but then I never ran a still. My thinking is the fusel oils would merge with the water and staying in the boiler at a higher percentage.
JK

[Stonecutter]

but then I never ran a still.

Not sure if this is your way of trying to throw off “the man”
Might try your hand at actually running a still first….

I would think adding water would do nothing but water everything down. Tails are going to come whether you like it or not. I’m not very scientifically minded when it comes to Distilling. It’s something I’d like to improve upon one day. For now I’m just trying to run my still and blend the cuts.

[acfixer69]

It would be better to add the water at the beginning an dilute for better separation during the run.

[Saltbush Bill]

I don't think that's a good idea...if the water is hot enough you might end up boiling alcohol off ..

[Salt Must Flow]

Tried searching found nothing but other interesting threads. Would adding water towards the middle end of a run help with tails. Adding heated water to the boiler I don't believe would cause smearing or separation, but then I never ran a still. My thinking is the fusel oils would merge with the water and staying in the boiler at a higher percentage.
JK

Depends on what you're making. If you're making a flavored spirit then dilution removes flavor.

If you're making a neutral spirit doing a spirit run with a full boiler then you can only add as much water as you've already removed in product so it may not make that much of a difference. I think you would be better off using a larger boiler which would allow you to dilute your low wines a LOT more and give you the benefit you're looking for.

[Stonecutter]

Tried searching found nothing but other interesting threads. Would adding water towards the middle end of a run help with tails. Adding heated water to the boiler I don't believe would cause smearing or separation, but then I never ran a still. My thinking is the fusel oils would merge with the water and staying in the boiler at a higher percentage.
JK

I’m not sure what you mean by “ help with tails”? What are you trying to make?
So many people post vague questions…
In my novice opinion the best way to hold back tails is by running slow or using reflux.

[shadylane]

Good question Jaliscokid.
I haven't tried it yet so I can't give an honest answer.

I think it would be better to dilute before the run.
It definitely would be easier than attempting to inject preheated water into the boiler.

[still_stirrin]

I don't think that's a good idea...if the water is hot enough you might end up boiling alcohol off ..

Actually, it would do the opposite. Adding water (not steam) would dilute the remaining wash in the boiler. And you know what that would do … raise the boiling point, not necessarily the temperature of the wash. As a result, it would stop vapor production until the wash temperature was again elevated to the saturation temperature of the (new) mixture. In other words, the temperature would have to go up before the still would produce vapors (and alcohol).

I don’t see how this would help hold the tails either. Instead, it would make separation more complicated once the boiler restarted producing vapors. Your tails would be diluted in more water such that the boiler would be pushed further into the backend.

And I wonder how the OP would add the water. Would the boiler be shut down? Or, would the water be added via a “shooter port”?

I’m inclined to favor acfixer’s solution, that is, add the water at the beginning of the run instead.
ss

[Salt Must Flow]

Perhaps we shouldn't focus on the "adding heated water" portion of the question, but focus more on "adding water towards the middle end of a run" part of the question. I think it's more important to know exactly what he intends to make. Flavored or neutral right? Adding heated or cold water is not the main part of the original question. It's mainly about adding water, diluting. Without more info and more understanding of his intent ... how can anyone logically reply without making assumptions?

[Ben]

Fusel oils aren't necessarily bad (depends on the product). Adding water is going to reduce the ABV coming off the spout, making fusels more evident... its also going to force you to run the still longer to extract the potential alcohol, which is going to lead in more fusel extraction.

Just crank up the still when you hit feints and let it rip. Collect and add to next run or feints jar. Nothing lost, no extra effort.



If you want fewer fusels perfect your fermentation. If you have a good, clean ferment, and treat the yeast well, give them the right environment there will be fewer fusels to begin with, less stuff to come over. Dirty ferments produce dirty distillate.

[Tōtōchtin]

Well to the first post I never looked over my shoulder wondering what the Man might be thinking ever. I am still gathering parts and reading and asking questions to those who have stumbled on before me. I will have a 1/2" threaded outlet on my still that was first drawn on for a manometer. I can add water thru that fitting. If my wash is boiling at 190* and I add 190* it should not shock the boiler. Adding more water at the beginning will just mean more runs. If I add the water 70-80% into the hearts, there will be plenty of room in the boiler. This should cause the alcohols in the fusil oils and methanol to be absorbed into the water, This way I reduce the % of fusel oils and methanol from entering my final product, in my mind anyways. This should give me a cleaner fusel oil if I decide to add it to my mix later.
Suerte JK

[Sporacle]

If my wash is boiling at 190* and I add 190* it should not shock the boiler. Adding more water at the beginning will just mean more runs. If I add the water 70-80% into the hearts, there will be plenty of room in the boiler.

Mate I'm not trying to pile on here, just curious as to your thinking.
If during your run you are going to add boiling water to your boiler, why not simply dilute the boiler charge prior to heat up?
Water is water, no matter when you add it and it would be a hell of a lot safer to add it at the start than trying to fill a still full of boiling liquid with boiling liquid through a half inch fitting.

[NZChris]

I wonder how much you know about using the type of still you are building. I'm guessing not much, as you haven't thought it important enough to tell us what it is or to explain your intended distilling protocol so that you might get a relevant answer.

[Tōtōchtin]

Caught me going to the beach then out to the ranch. I spent 3 hours yesterday and lost it all when the internet went out. I will in the next week post my parts list and diagrams of my ideas. I have a 59 and 30 liter keg planning on learning how to make a drinkable bourbon and rye whiskey. I have a sugar mill nearby so I will also be playing with rum. I'm building a 3'' column w/4 plates to make some gin for the misses.
But back to diluting the still. If there is less then a lb of pressure in the still where is the danger of adding water, open a valve have a container with hot water with 4 lb of pressure, that would gently feed the boiler. My worries if running the column would be missing with the equilibrium in the column. No one is is saying my primise is wrong, that these alcohols are water soluble and will separate some from the ethanol. Nothing mentioned about breaking safety rules. I'm curious by nature,and yes I stuck my finger in the socket to see if it really shocks you.
Horns are honking gotta go ciao JK

[NZChris]

You don't have to take out extra fusels for whiskey and rum styles in a pot still.
If you can be bothered doing the research and spending the money on hardware and automation, you could pull some off at the bottom of a tall plater to stretch the run a bit. I doubt it would make a much of a difference to your yield.

A plater is an expensive way to make poor quality neutral for the missus. A packed column is cheaper to build and is more efficient for removing flavors. Strip first to get rid of some fusels.

[Sporacle]

But back to diluting the still. If there is less then a lb of pressure in the still where is the danger of adding water, open a valve have a container with hot water with 4 lb of pressure, that would gently feed the boiler.

I wasn't saying what you planned was unsafe, what I was saying is that there is a risk as I was unsure of your method of getting water into the still, plus I can't see how adding water during the run is any different to adding it at the beginning, just lower the abv of your low wines by diluting them further when you charge your still.

[Stonecutter]

Well to the first post I never looked over my shoulder wondering what the Man might be thinking ever. I am still gathering parts and reading and asking questions to those who have stumbled on before me….
This way I reduce the % of fusel oils and methanol from entering my final product, in my mind anyways. This should give me a cleaner fusel oil if I decide to add it to my mix later.
Suerte JK

Gotta stumble a little before you can walk. I’m not sure if you’ve even crawled yet…
I look forward to hearing about your first run.

[NZChris]

A lot of the clever ideas that I use in my shed have been borrowed from industry. They've been making rum and whiskey for a very long time and their workers and chemists have been well trained and many have been doing their jobs for decades. If they use a particular protocol to make product that I like, I reckon that is a good starting point for me and that there is no need to for me to invent a new protocol until I've made it enough times, and learned enough about the science or art, to understand how I might be able improve on it.

AFAIK, none in the industry use the idea that you are suggesting. That said, I can't be really sure what it is that you are suggesting because you don't spell it out, possibly because you are making the assumption that the variety of distilling protocols aren't as numerous as they are and you assume that we should know what you are saying from your description?

[HDNB]

i just read the bit about having a lb of pressure and adding water at 3 lbs. let me tell you this about that:
if you add water through a valve while the still is running, you will cause an instantaneous vapour collapse and a very strong vacuum. if there is not enough of an orifice for air to get back into the still it will collapse the boiler

[6 Row Joe]

Don't do it.

[NZChris]

I have a 1/2" shooter valve installed in my pot that I have used to pour cold wash into a hot boiler without collapsing it. Note that I said 'pour', not pump or connect to, or any other unsafe ideas you can think of.

[Tōtōchtin]

Ok I have to ask what is the difference in what I want to do, compared to others running thumpers with overflow back to the boiler. The only one I remember offhand is Larry's thumpers on top of the boiler.
Jk
Thanks for pointing out about the boiling temp change by diluting the wash. I will take that into consideration.