Sporacles 4 inch plate build

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Sporacle
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Sporacles 4 inch plate build

Post by Sporacle »

So I've finally got my ducks in a row and am embarking on a 4 inch 4 perf plate build.
I will try and keep it sequential and post as much as I can.
Plates are flattened 2 inch with 1.5 mm holes on a 5mm grid, about 208 holes in total, square areas are TBA for downcomer and weir.
There is a central hole that the pattern is based on that allows me to spin the plates round.
Everything is centre punched and the plates are lubed with lanolin spray prior to drilling.
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Re: Sporacles 4 inch plate build

Post by GrumbleStill »

Looking forward to following the build 👍
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Re: Sporacles 4 inch plate build

Post by Sporacle »

Modules cut, 3 plate and a single plate.
Spacing is 120mm and a rough layout of the sightglass mounts
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Re: Sporacles 4 inch plate build

Post by Stonecutter »

What an undertaking. Much respect for you guys who take the time and effort into researching and ultimately building your own sight glass columns. I
took the Yankee way out and bought a rig and it’s done me good so far. I’ve passively read a little about the math involved with the perf plates and spacing. However, it’s looking good from here man. I wish you the best of luck getting er’ up and running Sporacle.
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Re: Sporacles 4 inch plate build

Post by Sporacle »

Stonecutter wrote: Tue Dec 13, 2022 7:16 pm Much respect for you guys who take the time and effort into researching and ultimately building your own sight glass columns
Stoney, there is so much info out there. Luckily Old Dogs plans are still about and guys like Salty and Yummy are so helpful. Basically the plates and spacings are based on Saltys 4 inch still.
It's coming along pretty easily atm, the next few days it will start to get a bit more complex.
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Re: Sporacles 4 inch plate build

Post by Sporacle »

Sight glass mounts are finished and the final layout is set, if you are building be very careful of your clearances around mounts and flanges.
I did a three stage set up
One was prior to cutting my modules, everything was taped and set out
Two was cutting and checking clearances
Three was a full assembly with plates measured prior to brazing and soldering
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Re: Sporacles 4 inch plate build

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Wrapping the main column in sandpaper or wet n dry really is the easy way to getting a perfect fit for the sight glass mounts.
Btw ......dont drill the mount holes before soldering the mounts on....much easier to drill them out later and clean up with a small file or die grinder.
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Re: Sporacles 4 inch plate build

Post by Sporacle »

Thanks Bill, getting drilled after and ran them over the 4 inch with some 80 wet and dry sandwiched In-between, worked really well
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Re: Sporacles 4 inch plate build

Post by Sporacle »

Dephlegmator started, 4 inch height with 4 one inch tubes with half inch inlet and out let.
The whole unit will be brazed (or I think some country's call it hard soldering)
The plates are templated with grid paper and the ends are cut with a thin blade on a 100mm angle grinder, holes are centre punched on one plate.
I then put a reference line on the plates and the pipe so the plates return to the same spot on the pipe as I'm doing the fit.
When I'm happy with the fit I match up the reference lines clamp and pre drill the plates and then hold down on a piece of ply and drill the 1 inch holes
It's much easier to drill the holes with a metal holesaw bit as opposed to a standard bit or step drill
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Re: Sporacles 4 inch plate build

Post by Sporacle »

Bit more progress on the dephlegmator fitted and white out, prepped for brazing
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Re: Sporacles 4 inch plate build

Post by Archee72 »

Sporacle wrote: Wed Dec 14, 2022 11:06 pm Dephlegmator started, 4 inch height with 4 one inch tubes with half inch inlet and out let.
The whole unit will be brazed (or I think some country's call it hard soldering)
The plates are templated with grid paper and the ends are cut with a thin blade on a 100mm angle grinder, holes are centre punched on one plate.
I then put a reference line on the plates and the pipe so the plates return to the same spot on the pipe as I'm doing the fit.
When I'm happy with the fit I match up the reference lines clamp and pre drill the plates and then hold down on a piece of ply and drill the 1 inch holes
It's much easier to drill the holes with a metal holesaw bit as opposed to a standard bit or step drill
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Re: Sporacles 4 inch plate build

Post by ThomasBrewer »

What's the thought on having the vapor tubes proud of the end plates? Are you going to come back later and cut them down flush?
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Re: Sporacles 4 inch plate build

Post by Sporacle »

ThomasBrewer wrote: Sat Dec 17, 2022 7:52 pm What's the thought on having the vapor tubes proud of the end plates? Are you going to come back later and cut them down flush?
At this point there is no plan to cut them down, they are facing upwards in the so they won't interfere with the vapor.
Having them slightly proud helps a little with assembly.
The downward face is finished flush as in the photo a couple of posts back :thumbup:
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Re: Sporacles 4 inch plate build

Post by Sporacle »

Brazed, patience is the key. The 4 inch sucks so much heat that I found it easier to set the MAPP torch on the opposite side to where I was working with the oxy.
Started with the tubes and then moved to the outer shell that way I got a fairly even heat.
When you think its hot enough, wait a bit longer :D
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Re: Sporacles 4 inch plate build

Post by Uncle Jesse »

Sporacle wrote: Sat Dec 17, 2022 11:00 pm Brazed, patience is the key. The 4 inch sucks so much heat that I found it easier to set the MAPP torch on the opposite side to where I was working with the oxy.
Started with the tubes and then moved to the outer shell that way I got a fairly even heat.
When you think its hot enough, wait a bit longer :D
Patience paid off. Looks very good.
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Re: Sporacles 4 inch plate build

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Best not to have pipes protruding upwards on defleg.
Can cause pooling.
On the bottom it doesn't matter.
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Re: Sporacles 4 inch plate build

Post by Sporacle »

Saltbush Bill wrote: Sat Dec 17, 2022 11:11 pm Best not to have pipes protruding upwards on defleg.
Can cause pooling.
On the bottom it doesn't matter.
Yeah, I can turn it around as I haven't put the ferrules on yet. Or I can simply grind them down.
If the vapour is passing through the defleg when I'm producing is there a chance of partial condensation due to the protusion and thus the protruding tubes would not allow any pooled liquid to return to the plates.... makes sense now I think about it
Thanks Bill
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Re: Sporacles 4 inch plate build

Post by Demy »

Good job :thumbup:
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Re: Sporacles 4 inch plate build

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Yeah just grind them flush, you don't want to give any distillate of any type an excuse to sit on top of the dephlegmator, better to be safe than sorry.
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Re: Sporacles 4 inch plate build

Post by Setsumi »

Well done with your build. Do you have a number on the % open area per plate?
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Re: Sporacles 4 inch plate build

Post by Sporacle »

Setsumi wrote: Sun Dec 18, 2022 10:07 am Well done with your build. Do you have a number on the % open area per plate?
So 1.5mm holes on a 5mm grid, Setsumi the plate is changing as I am now going to cap my downcomers so there will be an additional 25 to 30 holes.
Freedom units mm
Area of plate 7853
1.5mm hole 1.78 x 216 (original) 384
384 by 7853 times 100
Is a touch under 5%
30 more holes pumps it to 5.5

I read a lot of info on percentages and started to really confused, to many choices and my brain doesn't like to many options :thumbdown:
I used the plate perforation spacing of a still that I know works well :thumbup:

I see you are 2mm on 6mm grid giving about 5.6 :wave:
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Re: Sporacles 4 inch plate build

Post by ThomasBrewer »

Sporacle wrote: Sat Dec 17, 2022 11:29 pm
Saltbush Bill wrote: Sat Dec 17, 2022 11:11 pm Best not to have pipes protruding upwards on defleg.
Can cause pooling.
On the bottom it doesn't matter.
Yeah, I can turn it around as I haven't put the ferrules on yet. Or I can simply grind them down.
If the vapour is passing through the defleg when I'm producing is there a chance of partial condensation due to the protusion and thus the protruding tubes would not allow any pooled liquid to return to the plates.... makes sense now I think about it
Thanks Bill
Great plan. The top plate of a dephlag will always be below condensation temperature, so anything pooled there will continously smear your run. An end mill mounted in a drill press will make quick work of cutting them flush. You can buy them cheap on eBay if you need.
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Re: Sporacles 4 inch plate build

Post by Sporacle »

ThomasBrewer wrote: Sun Dec 18, 2022 4:41 pm The top plate of a dephlag will always be below condensation temperature, so anything pooled there will continously
Never run one before so I'll ask the question, if the top plate of the dephlag is always below condensation temp how does the product get over to the product condensor?
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Re: Sporacles 4 inch plate build

Post by Setsumi »

Sporacle wrote: Sun Dec 18, 2022 12:10 pm
Setsumi wrote: Sun Dec 18, 2022 10:07 am Well done with your build. Do you have a number on the % open area per plate?
So 1.5mm holes on a 5mm grid, Setsumi the plate is changing as I am now going to cap my downcomers so there will be an additional 25 to 30 holes.
Freedom units mm
Area of plate 7853
1.5mm hole 1.78 x 216 (original) 384
384 by 7853 times 100
Is a touch under 5%
30 more holes pumps it to 5.5

I read a lot of info on percentages and started to really confused, to many choices and my brain doesn't like to many options :thumbdown:
I used the plate perforation spacing of a still that I know works well :thumbup:

I see you are 2mm on 6mm grid giving about 5.6 :wave:
Yes, stats on open area for perfs are difficult to find. Thats why I ask. You will be happy with 5.5%.
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Re: Sporacles 4 inch plate build

Post by Sporacle »

Setsumi wrote: Sun Dec 18, 2022 7:30 pm Yes, stats on open area for perfs are difficult to find. Thats why I ask. You will be happy with 5.5%.
1.5mm on a 5mm grid is what Saltbush Bill used on his 4 inch build and he seemed happy with that so I figured it was good enough foe me :thumbup:
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Re: Sporacles 4 inch plate build

Post by Saltbush Bill »

I used that spacing on my 6 inch because it worked well on my 4 inch.....I used it on my 4 incher because a lot of people had used that spacing on their stills on forums that I follow and none of them had any complaints.
I wouldn't have a clue what percentage it is.....just that ,that size hole on a grid that size works on any plate..... 3 ,4 or 6inch....I don't need to know more.
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Re: Sporacles 4 inch plate build

Post by ThomasBrewer »

Sporacle wrote: Sun Dec 18, 2022 4:44 pm
ThomasBrewer wrote: Sun Dec 18, 2022 4:41 pm The top plate of a dephlag will always be below condensation temperature, so anything pooled there will continously
Never run one before so I'll ask the question, if the top plate of the dephlag is always below condensation temp how does the product get over to the product condensor?
It's a function of heat/mass transfer. If you send enough vapor up through the heat exchanger, you simply overwhelm the surface area and some vapor passes. My dephlag exit water temperature is usually about 55-70 C depending on what I'm running.
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Re: Sporacles 4 inch plate build

Post by Sporacle »

Makes sense, thanks
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Re: Sporacles 4 inch plate build

Post by DAD300 »

Don't be afraid of your plates being too porous.
You can correct an over porous plate by laying some washers on it.

My 5 plate column x 8" dia plates are approx 10% open. and I adjust that by laying SS washers on them. I can actually tune each plate to hold what I want. as in Plate 1 has six washers, 2 has five, 3 has four,...

It becomes self adjusting to some degree. And I can hear the washers rattle like valve plates.
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Re: Sporacles 4 inch plate build

Post by Sporacle »

DAD300 wrote: Tue Dec 20, 2022 10:35 am Don't be afraid of your plates being too porous.
You can correct an over porous plate by laying some washers on it.
The porosity of the plates was something that confused me, to be honest the whole concept is a bit confusing. I am lucky that so many people who have built and run plated columns have been so helpful.
I only just grasp the concept of how the still works, so much like a tried and true recipe, I just copied the basic layout of a still that works very well.
I am looking forward to learning how to run it and further down the track the next still build :thumbup:
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