Single reflux run tffv

[Sonofodin]

Hi chaps
It's getting close to Xmas. I have 160l of tffv, always done me well in the past. Historically I have always done stripping runs then spirit run but I'm not sure I'm going to get the time before the big day, would it be reasonable to do a low and slow single run with 5 bubble plates and dephleg with some packing (little bits of copper pipe)
I have no doubt it won't be as clean but I'm planning on using it for flavoured vodkas ie apple pie, limoncello etc. Any thoughts?

[Yummyrum]

Thats a big boiler full and exceeds our rules if you were to do it all in one run.

If nothing else you’d be better to at least strip half it and add it to the remaining wash if you can’t find time to strip it all first .

Or if you just need some quick for xmas , just process say 1/3 of it but do it properly and finish the rest when you have time . I’ve done that many times when we’ve run out and someone is stomping their foot

[Archee72]

+1 with Yummy, I was going to suggest the same

[Saltbush Bill]

Ive run Shadys S,S through 4 plates when I was in a hurry once and had no other option and needed a base spirit for gin in a hurry. I did Strip first however.....and only kept the heart of hearts on the strip run.....it was surprisingly good and made a nice enough gin.
I cant see why the same wont work using TFFV.

[NZChris]

TFFV has a heap of bran in it which Shady's doesn't. Unless you are a fan of the flavor, you might be disappointed.

Consider taking a very narrow heart cut for your current needs and dealing with the feints later.

[Sonofodin]

Thats all great Info. I have a 50l keg so would be at least 4 strips. Maybe I could do 2 back to back and mix with remaining wash for spirit run. Food for thought, thanks fellas.

[haggy]

Sonofodin,

I can give you some more food for thought.

I used my pot still and plate column calculators to compare Strip and Spirit Runs vs One and Done Runs for your 160 L of tffv wash. It looks like you have a 5 plate 3" bubble cap reflux column with a 2" dephleg and a 50 L boiler. I will use a 10% wash in the boiler. You have 2 x 2000 watt heater, I will say you can control the heat load. Please correct these numbers if I estimated wrong. I can redo the work.

Strip and Spirit Runs
First lets strip a 40L 10% abv wash charge at 4000 watts. Here are my Haggy Pot Thumper HD Calculator results, but only consider the pot results. They are on the left side of the Table. I added some riser added reflux to the pot to increase the abv some. First the Input Data, then the Table of Results.

Strip Run

It takes about 42 minutes to heat the pot up to the start of boiling. Time starts in the Table when the pot starts boiling. In the Table you see that at 85 minutes after the pot starts boiling, the pot vapor abv is down to 10%, and cumulative product out of the pot is 10L at 41% abv. But if we throw out the fores and early heads, we get about 9 L at 40% abv. We will do two strip runs, so we have 18 L at 40% abv. Each strip run takes about 130+ minutes so total strip time is about 4.5 hours.

Then combine the 18 L of 40% abv with the 62 L of 10% wash and get 80 L at 16.8% abv. Run this in 2 spirit runs and get the following results using my Plate Reflux Column Characteristics Calculator. I estimate that 2000 watts is the maximum heat the bubble column can run before it sees flooding. My calculator is for four plates while you have five plates plus some packing.

Spirit Run

It takes about 6.1 hours for one spirit run, so two spirit runs would be 12.5 hours. So the total run time for this option ( strip + spirit ) is about 17 hours. About 10.2 L at 94+% abv is the total hearts product made. I added 1% abv for your fifth plate.


One and Done Runs
These runs will use 40 L of a 10% abv wash in the pot. Since we are at 10% abv, the pot heating watts can be higher, use 3000 watts, again close to the flooding point. Here is the Input Data and Results of one run. Four runs are needed for the 160 L of wash.

About 3.34 L of Hearts are made at about 93% abv in each run at a run time about 4.5 hours. Four runs are made, so the total run time for this One and Done option is about 18 hours. About 13.3 L at 94% abv is the total product made. I added 1% for your fifth plate.

Final Summary
Two Strip runs and Two Spirit Runs-------------17 hours run time ------------10.2 L at 94+% abv
Four One and Done Runs-------------------------18 hours run time-------------13.3 L at 94% abv

Both options seem viable. The One and Done run might take slightly more time but makes more product. The Strip and Spirit runs will make a slightly higher % abv. They both have four total runs so set up time is about the same. The One and Done run uses all the wash, the Strip and Spirit has 18 L of wash remaining. Again, my plate reflux calculators only have four plates maximum. Your five plate column plus some packing may get slightly higher product abv, close to 94+%.


You were planning to do one of these two options. I have put some pretty good estimated numbers on them to help your planning and to show what can be done using the calculators.

haggy

[Sonofodin]

Haggy! What can I say, a true gentleman! (I am assuming!) Or lady gentleman! Really appreciate the time you have taken to set all this out for me, above and beyond my friend. I will have a good study today. I am currently running a strip in -3 celcius in my garage! Seems to be helping out the condenser a bit but without insulation round the column I guess it all equals out! Thanks again.

[Stonecutter]

Have never messed with Teddys Vodka but I’ve done a couple single runs of Shady’s Shine through a 4 plater. I use perf plates. I think the results were great for mixed drinks and “Apple Pie”. Definitely NOT neutral but given time (which you don’t have at the moment) the distillate lost a bit of flavor. Probably from opening and closing the jug.

[Sonofodin]

Cheers stonecutter. Good to know! Maybe a single run and a good filter? To be fair I've been burning the candle with strips. It's only the pressure I put on myself to drink decent liquor for Xmas but worst case there's always shop bought.....eew!

[Sonofodin]

Well in the end got 4 strips done and spirit run is coming out at 94% tastes great off the spout. Has been a hard slog on top of work this week but going to be worth it!

[haggy]

Congratulations, good decision and good job.
Looks like you did 4 strips and 1 spirit run.
What was the starting amount and ABV of the spirit run?
haggy

[Sonofodin]

Thanks haggy, sorry its taken a while to get back, it was 1.080 og and 0.992 fg, think that works out avout 10% wash. 40% abv for low wines for spirit run, I never go over that. Nice slow heavy reflux run, 5 oates, dephleg, plenty of copper packing. That's the highest I've had so far. I dont chase abv but it does help to yield that little bit more when it comes especially to vodka. Just out of curiosity what are peoples thoughts on the best way to create neutral or best wash? I was wondering about a neutral grain mash but not sure it's worth the money or time to convert starches to sugar etc

[Teddysad]

It all comes down to what is available locally to you. In my case here, I buy raw wheat for approximately 1/3 the price of white sugar. Time is not a problem for me hence I do most of my vodka now from wheat and using Hi-temp enzymes. It makes an even better result than my TFFV. That said I also have the equipment to heat and hold the mash.

[EricTheRed]

It all comes down to what is available locally to you. In my case here, I buy raw wheat for approximately 1/3 the price of white sugar. Time is not a problem for me hence I do most of my vodka now from wheat and using Hi-temp enzymes. It makes an even better result than my TFFV. That said I also have the equipment to heat and hold the mash.

Same here. Sugar is pharking expensive. Cheaper to use corn flour for me. Having said that, a 75% sugar 25%rolled oats is easier to deal with for a neutral.

[Sonofodin]

Thanks Teddy, I too have the option of steeping and holding temp, I bought a klarstein electric brew kettle last year, fully automated. So much easier than biab! So raw wheat?! Do you get good conversion with the enzymes? What sort of sg are you looking at? Would you mind sharing your process? Just want to say thank you for the tffv too, I've been infusing and using for gins, my family and friends all love the results!

[Sonofodin]

Eric, the rolled oats I'm assuming give the nice smooth mouth feel, does it impart much flavour? Tbh neutral is great but I do love a nice tasting vodka too!

[Teddysad]

Thanks Teddy, I too have the option of steeping and holding temp, I bought a klarstein electric brew kettle last year, fully automated. So much easier than biab! So raw wheat?! Do you get good conversion with the enzymes? What sort of sg are you looking at? Would you mind sharing your process? Just want to say thank you for the tffv too, I've been infusing and using for gins, my family and friends all love the results!

Have just uploaded a post to the mashing and fermenting section to cover this

[Sonofodin]

Amazing my friend, thank you as always and keep up the good work!