Have Blue Corn, is it any good?

[BoomTown]

I just found a reliable source for whole grain Blue Corn, from central Mexico.

Have been using cracked corn from Tractor Supply.

Am wondering how the field corn compares for Carbohydrates to the Blue varieties.

To use the Blue would require me to invest in a better grinder/mill, and the grains will be nominally more expensive.

I’m wondering if there is a difference in potential ABV of the mash, and if the Blue would have a different flavor contribution?

[ShineonCrazyDiamond]

No more potential than any random yellow. Blue does have a different flavor. If you're spending on imported grains, spend on a grinder.

Doesn't matter what we think, why don't you just do your ideas then share the experience?

[still_stirrin]

Great answer there SoCD.

Always worth considering is the cost of ingredients to go into your product. That’s considered a “recurring cost”. It directly affects the value of the operation (return to profit).

The cost of equipment upgrades, like buying a mill to better grind the ingredients, is considered a “capital investment” because it can improve product quality and/or output. The investment is a sunk cost and will eventually be recovered if the product performance improves as a result, which it should if you currently don’t mill your grains beyond the store-bought cracked corn.

Blue corn, or any of the select hybrid varieties beyond the traditional yellow “dent” corn might add an elegant variety to your product. Is there “value” to it … possibly, but how do you measure it in terms of “flavor”. If you were marketing your product commercially, then maybe you could label it as such, making it unique and niche-marketable. But the profit margin from such a narrow market sales might not justify the recurring expense.

As SoCD said, yellow corn and blue corn have roughly the same potential fermentable material, so the amount of product would be approximately equal. But, a better mill would likely improve the potential (amount of) product from the process upgrade.

Incidentally, I get my corn directly from the combine (harvester) bin. It costs me nothing other than my time (labor) to help with the harvest. And the varieties of corn we grow is primarily for commercial foods, with some going to the ethanol plant for fuel production. The corn here is all yellow corn. So, my options for the grains is highly motivated by what is available, especially considering its price-point.

In the end, get some of the blue corn and try it. See if the flavor difference is worth the cost. Only you can decide whether it is for you. And then, come back and share your experience. Other hobbyists are interested on what you’ve learned.
ss

[6 Row Joe]

I have found blue corn meal at Wal Mart. You might want to try a small batch to see if you like the flavor. Balcones out of Texas produce a blue corn whiskey. It is different. You need to decide.

[Oatmeal]

I have yet to find something fermented and distilled that I don't like. In my limited experience blue corn has a fruitier element than regular corn.

There are some fun, relatively inexpensive Mexican corn whiskeys featuring different corns that are worth checking out!

[BoomTown]

No more potential than any random yellow. Blue does have a different flavor. If you're spending on imported grains, spend on a grinder.

Doesn't matter what we think, why don't you just do your ideas then share the experience?

Hey **Diamond, It’s literally been years since we met at Jeb’s SSS gathering…it is great to reconnect.
I’ve got great respect for the bulk of feedback I get from this boards members, which is why I pose a question now and then. Living here in the city, all my grains are technically ‘imported’. It’s a 60 minute drive to a Tractor Supply where I get my cracked corn now), and 4 hours up to Farmer Wolfe’s for Wheat. That travel expense adds up the actual price of grains.

Actually this Blue corn is available locally from a newly opened Mexican Restaurant that buys it by the ton, and is willing to let me buy a bag now and then. Except for adding in the cost of a better grain mill (I’m looking at an Amazon sold unit for $180), the cost of corn will be manageable, because of eliminating the buying trip.

So how things with you?

Since we closed our

[BoomTown]

I have found blue corn meal at Wal Mart. You might want to try a small batch to see if you like the flavor. Balcones out of Texas produce a blue corn whiskey. It is different. You need to decide.

Thanks for the tip about Balcones. Unfortunately, living in Virginia (a control state), I can’t easily buy a bottle of Balcones. I did learn from their marketing blurb that they roast their corn. Now I’m wondering what might the gain might be for roasting the corn before mashing…?

I’ve roasted wheat berries before, originally to rapidly dry the grains so as to prevent clogging up my (nearly useless) finicky mill. I found the the ABC for my mash went up a couple points, and the spirit gained a ‘nutty’ flavor. Never considered roasting corn that way till reading the Balcones reference.

Anyone else ever roast their corn before grinding and fermenting?

[Deplorable]

If I had a local source for whole blue corn in bulk, I think I'd give the burr cones in this old mill a real workout. Even if the cost was a little more than feed corn. I use TSC corn because it's convenient and affordable, but mostly because it's convenient.
I'd spend a little more on a better quality corn at a reasonable cost, but shipping it is prohibitive at the moment.

[6 Row Joe]

I have some Angel yeast. May be I will try a little batch.

[BoomTown]

I have some Angel yeast. May be I will try a little batch.

So tell me about this Angels Yeast. Wha dat?

[6 Row Joe]

I have some Angel yeast. May be I will try a little batch.

So tell me about this Angels Yeast. Wha dat?

It is supposed to work without conversion. Al you need is starch. Use the search function. There are a few threads about it.

[Pure Old Possum Piss]

I have some Angel yeast. May be I will try a little batch.

So tell me about this Angels Yeast. Wha dat?

It will cold "mash" your corn or grain so you don't have to cook it, but I'll be danged if I can drink that shit.
Maybe I'm just taste sensitive, but I couldn't drink it until I triple distilled it to 195 three times. And it still tasted like shit. A couple of my neighbors thought it tasted great, but they are a couple of drunks that only drink to fall down. To me, it tastes like they did a Bird Watchers (it's pretty good) and tripled up on the TP. And then added Nuclear Turbo yeast. Then took a big Chinaman shit in it. Maybe they have changed their recipe for the Yellow Label Angel Starter of Liquor Making since many members have sang its praises. You can call BS all you want, but that is what it tastes like to me.

Just to be fair, first time I stepped on my dick wasting money on that shit, I gelatinized the corn, by pouring boiling water over it first while the 60 gal barrels were wrapped in 2 feet of hay bales from top to bottom. It took two days for it to drop to barley and oats temps (150°). It was cooked/gelled. Didn't really need Angel. But they recommend for a quick ferment to put hot water. I.E... cook the shit for a quicker ferment.
Next day it got down to pitching temp (90°). The temps only dropped from there. No heat build up like a normal ferment. I even took the bales down and put barrels wrap heaters on them, put the hay back around them and was lucky to keep 85° in the barrels.
A week later it was sorta dry but had a weird tomato/chemical taste to the beer. No use using a hydrometer on this stuff(parallel ferment). Two weeks later it was dry/sour, so I ran 50 gallons of it. I wound up with about 5 gallons of 185 proof that I couldn't even begin to drink. (Yeah. I tempered it down to 40% sipping strength but it still tasted like rot gut shit).
Determined not to pour this shit out on the ground and kill my grass or livestock if they got into it, I figured reflux the living shit out of it! It has alcohol in it and if I can clean it up, I can pawn it off on the MIL. HAHA!

WRONG ANSWER!

Even she couldn't get it down and she's loved everything I've made for the 30 years since meeting my wife.

Even at 195 proof, rewater down to 35% and run it again twice...
It sucked.
Maybe I'm just used to an old fashioned sour mash with a lactose and a strain of yeast I've developed over many years, hell, ain't no damn telling.
But if you're looking for a cheap ass way to get drunk and either don't care what it tastes like or can't tell the difference, Yellow Angel is the way to go!
BTW... tried it two other times with single barrels, using warm water, cold water, all according to the label "330 lbs 'stuff'" to 80gals water. Maintained recommended temps.
It will make alcohol at about 10% avb if left long enough but I personally can't get past the taste. But then I can't handle scotch. I love whisky, rum, vodka, tequila, various brandies. I guess if i was selling this shit i wouldn't care how it tasted as long as buyers liked it, but I just can't keep this shit down.
I can't even get it down to keep it down.
Now... let the haters/fan bois/drunks begin...

I still have 1 of those kilo bags of this shit.
If you have a recommendation that will make it drinkable... I'm listening. I hate wasting money even more than drinking rot gut... but there's always neighbor drunk around that will drink any thing...
I'd offer to sell this last vacuum packed bag but I don't wish it on anyone and even more so don't want to get banned by selling this junk.

[Metalking00]

Thats gotta be the harshest criticism of yellow label Ive seen. Not criticizing your criticism, by any means- if you didnt like it thats what counts.

Ive had a different experience and many others have too. I find the product to be quite good, and I enjoy it. Try it out for yourself and see whats what. Its not that expensive, and its extremely convenient.

Heres the link to the main thread about it. Lots of info there.
viewtopic.php?t=76531

[Pure Old Possum Piss]

Thats gotta be the harshest criticism of yellow label Ive seen. Not criticizing your criticism, by any means- if you didnt like it thats what counts.

Ive had a different experience and many others have too. I find the product to be quite good, and I enjoy it. Try it out for yourself and see whats what. Its not that expensive, and its extremely convenient.

Heres the link to the main thread about it. Lots of info there.
viewtopic.php?t=76531

That main link is why i made the mistake of investing in that shit.
Based on the hype from a buch of " knowledgeable distillers" (drunks that will drink any shit to catch a buzz) on here I bought into this.

And that's not saying that everyone on here is a die hard drunken drink any thing drunk.

There's a lot of members that have done this art for decades that know exactly what I'm taking about.

Will they/can they critique this popular trend (without getting jumped on like I'm about to have done)?
Ain't no damn telling!

There's no way in hell that a koji/yeast ferment can compare to a traditional ferment. At not least with Angel. I've had saki and baijou that was good. But it didn't taste anywhere near like this. This Angel junk is not a traditional liquor koji, over there, it may be "starter of likker (rot gut) making" but I seriously doubt any one that does it for a living or as a tradition uses this.

I can almost guarantee your "good experience" is because you've never had the pleasure of tasting anything but rot gut or that store bought shit.

Have I gave this angel shit a fair trial?
Yep!
Made the mistake of fucking up close to 3500 lbs of corn and other grains with 9 bags of it .
From cooking, mashing, to you name it, even cold water, every way you could use it, according to directions, every batch tasted like shit.
It could be like Boar Taint. Some people can't taste it, but if you can, just the smell will make you gagg before you get it to your mouth.

I've never had a problem with my livestock eating any of my spent grain, but the cows, chickens and even the goats won't touch this shit.

Does it make alcohol? Yes
Does it taste worse than Turbo yeast? Hell fucking YES!

Even Turdhole yeast can possibly taste ok if you use it sparingly and keep your OG under 10% .

I'll end with saying I guess it's just a matter of personal preference and that it damn sure ain't for me.
Drink it up and fall down if that's your cup of tea.
To each there own.

[Pure Old Possum Piss]

Sorry about getting off track as far as blue corn goes. I really like the ~nutty flavor that deep red, purple corn gives to a likker. This spring I plan on planting some Hopi Blue to go with the Jimmy Red I've been planting for years. IMHO, it tastes better and you ain't gotta try to grow no barley if you'll sprout your corn until it gets about 2 inch tails before you dry and grind it.
It's way past bed time so I'm outta here.
Everyone have a good evening!

[Pure Old Possum Piss]

As far as that Angel shit though, it's like a 13 year old kid dropping some yeast into a can of Mountain Spew then thinking he's made some fine wine.
Can you run it through your still and get some sort of alcohol to come out? Probably.
But if you ask me, it's like trying to make chicken salad out of chicken shit. And that shit just ain't worth eating.

[EricTheRed]

I have some Angel yeast. May be I will try a little batch.

So tell me about this Angels Yeast. Wha dat?

It will cold "mash" your corn or grain so you don't have to cook it, but I'll be danged if I can drink that shit.
Maybe I'm just taste sensitive, but I couldn't drink it until I triple distilled it to 195 three times. And it still tasted like shit. A couple of my neighbors thought it tasted great, but they are a couple of drunks that only drink to fall down. To me, it tastes like they did a Bird Watchers (it's pretty good) and tripled up on the TP. And then added Nuclear Turbo yeast. Then took a big Chinaman shit in it. Maybe they have changed their recipe for the Yellow Label Angel Starter of Liquor Making since many members have sang its praises. You can call BS all you want, but that is what it tastes like to me.

Just to be fair, first time I stepped on my dick wasting money on that shit, I gelatinized the corn, by pouring boiling water over it first while the 60 gal barrels were wrapped in 2 feet of hay bales from top to bottom. It took two days for it to drop to barley and oats temps (150°). It was cooked/gelled. Didn't really need Angel. But they recommend for a quick ferment to put hot water. I.E... cook the shit for a quicker ferment.
Next day it got down to pitching temp (90°). The temps only dropped from there. No heat build up like a normal ferment. I even took the bales down and put barrels wrap heaters on them, put the hay back around them and was lucky to keep 85° in the barrels.
A week later it was sorta dry but had a weird tomato/chemical taste to the beer. No use using a hydrometer on this stuff(parallel ferment). Two weeks later it was dry/sour, so I ran 50 gallons of it. I wound up with about 5 gallons of 185 proof that I couldn't even begin to drink. (Yeah. I tempered it down to 40% sipping strength but it still tasted like rot gut shit).
Determined not to pour this shit out on the ground and kill my grass or livestock if they got into it, I figured reflux the living shit out of it! It has alcohol in it and if I can clean it up, I can pawn it off on the MIL. HAHA!

WRONG ANSWER!

Even she couldn't get it down and she's loved everything I've made for the 30 years since meeting my wife.

Even at 195 proof, rewater down to 35% and run it again twice...
It sucked.
Maybe I'm just used to an old fashioned sour mash with a lactose and a strain of yeast I've developed over many years, hell, ain't no damn telling.
But if you're looking for a cheap ass way to get drunk and either don't care what it tastes like or can't tell the difference, Yellow Angel is the way to go!
BTW... tried it two other times with single barrels, using warm water, cold water, all according to the label "330 lbs 'stuff'" to 80gals water. Maintained recommended temps.
It will make alcohol at about 10% avb if left long enough but I personally can't get past the taste. But then I can't handle scotch. I love whisky, rum, vodka, tequila, various brandies. I guess if i was selling this shit i wouldn't care how it tasted as long as buyers liked it, but I just can't keep this shit down.
I can't even get it down to keep it down.
Now... let the haters/fan bois/drunks begin...

I still have 1 of those kilo bags of this shit.
If you have a recommendation that will make it drinkable... I'm listening. I hate wasting money even more than drinking rot gut... but there's always neighbor drunk around that will drink any thing...
I'd offer to sell this last vacuum packed bag but I don't wish it on anyone and even more so don't want to get banned by selling this junk.

So, just to make sure i got this right, you don't like angel yeast?

[6 Row Joe]

I think i'll give it a nudge with some blue corn but only a gallon batch using a couple pounds of blue and not 3500 pounds.

[BoomTown]

Keeping focus on Blue Corn, aside from this Angle or Turbo yeasts, has anyone had better success with one type of yeast over another? If so, why was one better than another?

Please let the Angle yeast fade, I’m convinced it will not be an approach I could expect superior results using it.

I’ve been using a yeast version started 7 years ago, and simply catch a quart jar of sludge from the bottom of fermenters, dropping them into a separate 5 gallon pale, skimming away the clear liquids (tossing them into a beer run) and dipping out a quart of the leavings for casting into mashes at about 100°F. Originally used Red Star Distillers Yeast, but I wouldn’t bet that the original strain dominates the bucket now.

I plan to start a different yeast capture bucket specifically for the Blue Corn spirit.

Also, about recipes: Uncle Lum’s Misty Morning (our young bourbon) is 65% yellow corn, 25% soft White Wheat, 10% 6-row Malted Barley. Based on info garnered here, I’m considering using 75% Blue Corn, 25% White Wheat, and relying on SEP HiTemp enzymes, and selecting a yeast that yields a full bodied spirit. I’m planning to age the spirit at 75% ABV using medium charred White Oak (@ 4 square inches per liter, in Stainless Steel Fuji’s for 12 months before bottling). Aging will occur outside, subject to regional (Virginia, USA) temperatures ranging between mid 20’s to 100°F, fluctuating about 20° every 24 hours.

Comments are welcome, especially type of yeast or enzymes recommendations. Please share any experiences you feel may enlighten my plan.

[Twisted Brick]

I'd spend a little more on a better quality corn at a reasonable cost, but shipping it is prohibitive at the moment.

Azure Standard carries organic, field-dried whole dent corn grown in Oregon.

[Deplorable]

I'd spend a little more on a better quality corn at a reasonable cost, but shipping it is prohibitive at the moment.

Azure Standard carries organic, field-dried whole dent corn grown in Oregon.

I know. Last I checked blue corn was about $22 for 25#, and yellow dent was about $31 for 50#. Still double what TSC costs.
One of these days I'm going to bite the bullet and buy a sack and compare the flavor of the finished product with TSC, but honestly I can't tase a difference between the stuff I make with BRM corn meal and what I make with TSC corn. Maybe my pallet isnt refined enough.
My usual bourbon mashes consist of 25# of BRM corn meal, and the balance of the corn is hand ground TSC now so I dont have open bags of corn meal hanging around.

[Pure Old Possum Piss]

I have some Angel yeast. May be I will try a little batch.

So tell me about this Angels Yeast. Wha dat?

It will cold "mash" your corn or grain so you don't have to cook it...

So, just to make sure i got this right, you don't like angel yeast?

Lol!
Yep. You could say that.
Sorry about getting off subject last night, I got into the the jug earlier.

Most of the deep red, purple and blue corn I've tried has a different yet interesting flavor. I've been growing Jimmy Red for a couple years and I really like the flavor.

I just ordered some Hopi Blue that I plan to plant this spring. Hopefully I'll have a good crop and have plenty for seed and to make some likker with. I'll let you guys know how the Hopi turns out.

And again, sorry for last night's rant.

[6 Row Joe]

Let me go downstairs and taste my Balcones again. It has been a while. My palate is all warmed up tonight so i should be good.

[BoomTown]

Well, doing a quick price check, simple cracked corn from Trac tor supply is about $.80, and Blue (Purple) corn is about $1.80 per pound.

Guessing I’m sticking with TS, cost is just too much different, and haven’t been able to see any real increase in yield prediction for using the Blue corn

[subbrew]

If you have a grain mill near, take a look there. A month ago I paid 15.50 at an Agfinity mill for 50# of flaked corn. If you live in Ag country just follow the train tracks and sooner or later you will find a mill. Usually large elevator bins towering above the town are the first clue.

[6 Row Joe]

Let me go downstairs and taste my Balcones again. It has been a while. My palate is all warmed up tonight so i should be good.

Balcones Blue is different for sure. It's not my taste. After sipping it again I might make some tortilla chips with the bag of ground blue corn I have.
It's interesting to look at the tasting notes from the distillery. Lots of flavors I don't taste.

[BoomTown]

Let me go downstairs and taste my Balcones again. It has been a while. My palate is all warmed up tonight so i should be good.

Balcones Blue is different for sure. It's not my taste. After sipping it again I might make some tortilla chips with the bag of ground blue corn I have.
It's interesting to look at the tasting notes from the distillery. Lots of flavors I don't taste.

Well, golly gee, that’s not very encouraging!

[6 Row Joe]

Let me go downstairs and taste my Balcones again. It has been a while. My palate is all warmed up tonight so i should be good.

Balcones Blue is different for sure. It's not my taste. After sipping it again I might make some tortilla chips with the bag of ground blue corn I have.
It's interesting to look at the tasting notes from the distillery. Lots of flavors I don't taste.

Well, golly gee, that’s not very encouraging!

Sorry but I wasn't happy with the taste. I have decided not to waste my time with a batch.

[8Ball]

Let me go downstairs and taste my Balcones again. It has been a while. My palate is all warmed up tonight so i should be good.

Balcones Blue is different for sure. It's not my taste. After sipping it again I might make some tortilla chips with the bag of ground blue corn I have.
It's interesting to look at the tasting notes from the distillery. Lots of flavors I don't taste.

Well, golly gee, that’s not very encouraging!

Sorry but I wasn't happy with the taste. I have decided not to waste my time with a batch.

+1. I’m a little late in posting, but I think its still relevant:

I was recently gifted a bottle of Balcones Blue Corn Bourbon, cask strength. A generous gift that I will never enjoy. The taste is just plain bad to me. At best, I might use it sparingly in a blended whiskey trial.