Experiments in malt
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Experiments in malt
I like to understand how things work, so I am starting a series of experiments. I ran to my local store and picked up 55 pounds of malted barley, while simultaneously attempting to malt my own at home.
Standing on the backs of giants, I have been successful at malting some barley, wheat, rye, and corn. Last night I made two equal batches to compare store-bought barley malt against my home malt.
Store-bought batch
8 pounds malted barley finely ground to .02
4 gallons of water (RODI ph 5.3)
3 mL of enzymes (probably not necessary, but it’s a starting point)
Mash in at 147°
Held for 90 minutes
Iodine test is good
Final SG at 1.048
Homegrown batch
8 pounds malted barley finely ground to .02
4 gallons of water (RODI ph 5.3)
3 mL of enzymes (probably not necessary, but it’s a starting point)
Mash in at 147°
Held for 90 minutes
Iodine test is good
Final SG at 1.038
Both conversions seem low to me, but obviously gives me more to work to improve my own malt. What do you guys get for store bought barley malt conversion? Would other grains have a similar SG or does it vary greatly? I pitched both with Dady to get a small run of single malt and will begin similar experiments with the other grains.
Standing on the backs of giants, I have been successful at malting some barley, wheat, rye, and corn. Last night I made two equal batches to compare store-bought barley malt against my home malt.
Store-bought batch
8 pounds malted barley finely ground to .02
4 gallons of water (RODI ph 5.3)
3 mL of enzymes (probably not necessary, but it’s a starting point)
Mash in at 147°
Held for 90 minutes
Iodine test is good
Final SG at 1.048
Homegrown batch
8 pounds malted barley finely ground to .02
4 gallons of water (RODI ph 5.3)
3 mL of enzymes (probably not necessary, but it’s a starting point)
Mash in at 147°
Held for 90 minutes
Iodine test is good
Final SG at 1.038
Both conversions seem low to me, but obviously gives me more to work to improve my own malt. What do you guys get for store bought barley malt conversion? Would other grains have a similar SG or does it vary greatly? I pitched both with Dady to get a small run of single malt and will begin similar experiments with the other grains.
Last edited by Brad S on Wed Feb 01, 2023 5:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Experiments in malt
You may get a little better letting it sit longer?
Did you do a starch test?
What were the enzymes? Gluco?
I don't think that's bad at all, as you go keep notes and I'm sure it will improve. Iv never worked with homemade malted grains so can't say about that result.
Did you do a starch test?
What were the enzymes? Gluco?
I don't think that's bad at all, as you go keep notes and I'm sure it will improve. Iv never worked with homemade malted grains so can't say about that result.
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Re: Experiments in malt
+1 to Bradster’s comments.
Mash times might be a little short, especially if the mash water was slightly basic, ie - greater than pH 6.0. Typically, the enzymes work best in a slightly acidic environment (5.0 to 5.5 pH).
And by all means, check conversion with the iodine test. It’ll tell you if the starches have been converted or not.
Do you lauter/sparge? That can and will affect the brewhouse efficiency, or rate of extraction of the sugars. Fermenting on-the-grain will allow the active enzymes to continue to reduce starch even into the fermenter. So, your actual yield may be better than what your OG potential measures.
Process wise, it is not surprising that professionally malted barley has better extraction than your homemade malt simply because of the quality control of the malting processes at the maltster. Moisture content, germination duration, and drying protocol will all affect the development of enzymes, which are fundamental to the conversion process. Barley variety and “freshness” will also affect the enzyme health as well.
ss
Mash times might be a little short, especially if the mash water was slightly basic, ie - greater than pH 6.0. Typically, the enzymes work best in a slightly acidic environment (5.0 to 5.5 pH).
And by all means, check conversion with the iodine test. It’ll tell you if the starches have been converted or not.
Do you lauter/sparge? That can and will affect the brewhouse efficiency, or rate of extraction of the sugars. Fermenting on-the-grain will allow the active enzymes to continue to reduce starch even into the fermenter. So, your actual yield may be better than what your OG potential measures.
Process wise, it is not surprising that professionally malted barley has better extraction than your homemade malt simply because of the quality control of the malting processes at the maltster. Moisture content, germination duration, and drying protocol will all affect the development of enzymes, which are fundamental to the conversion process. Barley variety and “freshness” will also affect the enzyme health as well.
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Re: Experiments in malt
Thanks for the input. I’ve updated my 1st post with alittle more info. My RODI was has a ph of 5.3. Iodine test was good at the end of 90 minutes. I am fermenting on-grain. Once I get a base line approach and measurements, I plan on running them again but for maximum yield and larger batches to run thru the still. I think the consensus appears to be more like 2.5-2.8lbs/gallon.
Re: Experiments in malt
Starting gravity is a touch low, steps look alright.
How coarse is your grind?
Make sure you are stirring real well at the beginning of mash, dough balls kill efficiency.
How coarse is your grind?
Make sure you are stirring real well at the beginning of mash, dough balls kill efficiency.
:)
Re: Experiments in malt
I agree with you, gravities are low. Should have been around 1.064
(8*32)/4=64
Keep working on improving mashing efficiencies and you will be fine.
(8*32)/4=64
Keep working on improving mashing efficiencies and you will be fine.
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Re: Experiments in malt
Have you completed any rye or wheat mashes yet? The lower gravity from your barley malt could be more a characteristic of your particular cultivar than anything with your mashing processes. (But you already knew this...)8Ball wrote: ↑ I agree with you, gravities are low. Should have been around 1.064
(8*32)/4=64
Keep working on improving mashing efficiencies and you will be fine.
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Re: Experiments in malt
Brad - I'm wondering about the added enzymes. You mentioned it was a starting point - to more experiments w/o enzymes?
Kind of a general/open question for the mob - when using RODI water, would adding calcium improve or preserve the enzyme activity when mashing?
Kind of a general/open question for the mob - when using RODI water, would adding calcium improve or preserve the enzyme activity when mashing?
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Re: Experiments in malt
A quick search. This should answer your questions.
viewtopic.php?t=7406
viewtopic.php?t=7406
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Re: Experiments in malt
Awesome
Last edited by BoilerMaker on Thu Feb 02, 2023 7:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Experiments in malt
'iodine test is good'
does this mean that you have managed to convert the starches that you have extracted?
it doesn't mean that you have extracted all the starches.
maybe part of your experiment should include mashing some of the spent grain in water then testing that for residual starch as well.
does this mean that you have managed to convert the starches that you have extracted?
it doesn't mean that you have extracted all the starches.
maybe part of your experiment should include mashing some of the spent grain in water then testing that for residual starch as well.
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Re: Experiments in malt
No need to get your panties in a bunch BM. I posted the link for ALL to read.And I think you've got the 2 Brad's mixed up. I'm not running an experiment of any kind(at the moment).
So after reading your post and seeing your "unclear" with a few things.
Maybe the fact of the matter is you are just dense. Slow down,read,and most of all don't forget to breathe.
So after reading your post and seeing your "unclear" with a few things.
Maybe the fact of the matter is you are just dense. Slow down,read,and most of all don't forget to breathe.
I drink so much now,on the back of my license it's a list of organs I need.
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Re: Experiments in malt
Good advice. Thanks!
Re: Experiments in malt
I was thinking about this trial... going forward you will learn more if you omit the enzyme. Malted barley has way more than needed to self convert, if you are trying to test the success of your malting program verifying the diastatic power is an important part of validation. Time how long it takes to pass a starch test on both the store bought and home malted. If you are going to use enzyme it's barely worth the energy to malt your grain...
:)
Re: Experiments in malt
Ben wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 6:59 am I was thinking about this trial... going forward you will learn more if you omit the enzyme. Malted barley has way more than needed to self convert, if you are trying to test the success of your malting program verifying the diastatic power is an important part of validation. Time how long it takes to pass a starch test on both the store bought and home malted. If you are going to use enzyme it's barely worth the energy to malt your grain...
well said, i don't know what these experiments were supposed to prove
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Re: Experiments in malt
Not all grains are the same and malt houses are critical of the grains they select. In addition to physical characteristics (plump, uniform kernels, disease and insect-free, etc) grains suitable for malting need to have a high germination rate (+95%) and protein level between 9.5% and 12.5% (dry basis). A protein level lower than 9.5% can inhibit enzymatic activity needed to break down starch for modification. Conversely, a grain with a higher protein level is suitable for malting - it just means having a little less starch to work with.
So your test with enzymes was a valid test (IMO) in that it indicated your barley may have a very low starch content and therefore not suitable for mashing. Had you observed the same low gravity and not used enzymes you would have blamed your mashing regime and possibly ended up down a really deep rabbit hole.
If you're destined to work with the barley you have and don't mind just using more grain/gal, it's still valuable to continue malting for the flavor improvement alone.
So your test with enzymes was a valid test (IMO) in that it indicated your barley may have a very low starch content and therefore not suitable for mashing. Had you observed the same low gravity and not used enzymes you would have blamed your mashing regime and possibly ended up down a really deep rabbit hole.
If you're destined to work with the barley you have and don't mind just using more grain/gal, it's still valuable to continue malting for the flavor improvement alone.
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