Stock pot gin still

Simple pot still distillation and construction with or without a thumper.

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MooseMan
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Stock pot gin still

Post by MooseMan »

Hi all.

This hobby has really started to get me now!

I've got my modular CCVM setup that I can use to strip, then run neutral on a decent scale. I'm yet to become what would be considered competent at running the still by many people's standards, but with a couple of runs under my belt I'm getting more confidence.

I'm already starting to collect bits and bobs to build a little gin still that I can run in the house on top of the hob, for convenience and to do small batch runs until I find what I like in a gin. I'll be using Odin's as a base, obviously!

So I though I'd do a little build blog.

I've got a pot that takes 9l to the handle rivets, so quite well sized for what I want I think. The biggest diameter copper I have to hand is 35mm so I'm going with that for the riser at least. I got a 35mm end cap today and as soon as I got home from work, cleaned the pot lid and cap then soldered together the way I saw in a build thread here, I really wish I could remember who it was as I'm very thankful to him for sharing the method, it was really, really easy and creates a super solid join.
IMG_20230207_170839_507.jpg
I just had time to let it cool enough so I could clean up all the flux spatter and heat discoloration before it got dark.
IMG_20230207_172044_431.jpg
Then I punched a few hole spacings, drilled them out and cleaned up the edges.

There's 5x 8mm holes in the cap/lid to let vapour though, I could definitely squeeze a couple more in but it may affect the physical integrity of the join. What are people's thoughts on this, is that enough?
IMG_20230207_173344_541.jpg
The 35mm tube is a real nice fit into the cap, so hopefully a few wraps of PTFE tape will give a good seal.
IMG_20230207_173650_045.jpg
That's all I've had time to do today, it's been a long day and I need food!
More to follow when I get my elbows and reducers for the next bit, but a question to finish if I may...

What would you guys recommend as an ideal riser height for this sized pot/tube diameter?
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Re: Stock pot gin still

Post by StillerBoy »

MooseMan wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 10:45 am There's 5x 8mm holes in the cap/lid to let vapour though, I could definitely squeeze a couple more in but it may affect the physical integrity of the join
If I was the one making it, I be opening the hole to 1/8" for the edge, or one large hole size less restrictions.. why.. the bigger the hole the less power require to move the vapors, thereby creating less turbulent in the boiler, and less pressure require to move the vapors.. cause the name of game is slow and easy..
MooseMan wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 10:45 am The 35mm tube is a real nice fit into the cap, so hopefully a few wraps of PTFE tape will give a good seal.
That will work..

As for sealing the lid to the pot, make a gasket wrapped with teflon tape, and held in place with blind clips..

Mars
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Re: Stock pot gin still

Post by MooseMan »

Thanks for the advice Mars, I'll take a look at it when I get home today and see what I can do to improve it. Should be able to get a clean hole through and still leave a bit of meat around the edges for the structural bond. I could also support the riser and condenser to take the strain off the join.

I'm gonna try making a gasket on the weekend when I can hopefully get some wider Teflon, the only stuff commonly available near me is 12mm wide but I can get 20mm from a bigger commercial plumbers place.

Are these the clips you call blind clips?
IMG_20230208_071043_930.jpg
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Re: Stock pot gin still

Post by StillerBoy »

MooseMan wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 11:11 pm I'm gonna try making a gasket on the weekend when I can hopefully get some wider Teflon, the only stuff commonly available near me is 12mm wide but I can get 20mm from a bigger commercial plumbers place.

Are these the clips you call blind clips?
Yeah.. I use the 1.5" size.. the 12mm (1/2") wide works best.. I use mat board for making the gasket with..

Pictures pretty use the process..

Mars
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Re: Stock pot gin still

Post by Bushman »

All good advice, I would add what I used for my essential oil botanicals. You might use it for gin.
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Re: Stock pot gin still

Post by MooseMan »

Thanks both, great to have your input.

Bushman in your thread (That I'm going to read over carefully later this evening) you say that your "Column" (Riser?) Is 18" so can I please ask what is the reasoning for that?
Does it allow for more power with less risk of puking?
Or is there an efficiency increase?
Or some other reason I should be giving thought to before I cut mine?
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Re: Stock pot gin still

Post by MooseMan »

StillerBoy wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 11:09 am If I was the one making it, I be opening the hole to 1/8" for the edge, or one large hole size less restrictions.. why.. the bigger the hole the less power require to move the vapors, thereby creating less turbulent in the boiler, and less pressure require to move the vapors.. cause the name of game is slow and easy..

Mars
Ok, so I took your advice and drilled out the cap to just shy of the curve in the bottom.

Still seems plenty strong enough, and now the opening is the same as the inner diameter of the pipe, meaning no restriction at all as you explained, so I'm really happy with it, thanks for the nudge Mars.
IMG_20230208_172106_329.jpg
View from below the lid with riser in place.
IMG_20230208_172137_083.jpg
Hopefully my bits will arrive tomorrow so I can start the rest of the build.

Any advice of riser height for this size pot/tubing anyone?
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Re: Stock pot gin still

Post by StillerBoy »

MooseMan wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 10:22 am Any advice of riser height for this size pot/tubing anyone?
The 10L pot is ideal size for making gin or pastis or just experiment with..

As to input/advise for the riser.. well that so happen that my pastis setup is of that size..

Mars
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Re: Stock pot gin still

Post by MooseMan »

That's a stunner! :shock:

So riser around the same length as the pot height then?

I can manage that!
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Re: Stock pot gin still

Post by MooseMan »

Bit of an update then.

I got the rest of the copper fittings so, despite feeling like crap and just wanting to do nothing but lie in bed and cough my lungs up, I forced myself to layer up and get some work done.

I cut my 35mm copper riser to 400mm length, soldered an elbow, then a 70mm stub off the other side.
IMG_20230211_121641_914.jpg
Then I soldered another elbow to a 300mm length of 35mm to take the condenser out in the correct direction.
I added a 35mm to 22mm reducer to the other end, to take my condenser. This is shown facing down in the pic below, it will be left unsoldered so that it can be rotated to the required angle and sealed with PTFE on each run. At least that's the plan!
IMG_20230211_122723_089.jpg
I have an oddball idea for a condenser which I'm going to be testing out once I feel up to it, but after just 2hrs of real light work today I'm wiped out, so that it maybe for the weekend. :sick:
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Re: Stock pot gin still

Post by StillerBoy »

MooseMan wrote: Sat Feb 11, 2023 6:54 am I added a 35mm to 22mm reducer to the other end, to take my condenser. This is shown facing down in the pic below, it will be left unsoldered so that it can be rotated to the required angle and sealed with PTFE on each run. At least that's the plan!

I have an oddball idea for a condenser which I'm going to be testing out once I feel up to it, but after just 2hrs of real light work today I'm wiped out, so that it maybe for the weekend.
There is one issue becoming visible that could/will cause some issues, and that the amount of copper the lid joint will be required to hold..

If you're planning on attaching a shotgun style PC, it will become hard for the lid joint to handle..

Mars
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Re: Stock pot gin still

Post by MooseMan »

Yes you're right Mars, I noticed quite a bit of flex today when I was dry fitting it together. And that's just the riser, elbows and lyne arm. With a condenser on it will be just too much. It's surprising how much it all starts to weigh!

What I plan to do is mount the condenser on a small tripod that i have, which I can adjust to releive the strain on both the lid/pot joint and the copper cap that i soldered to the lid.
Not sure how well that will work yet but once my brain is less fuzzy I'll have a mess around with it.
I also have an idea for using a couple of sets of Aluminium bracing legs along the condenser, which will also have a certain heat sinking effect.
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Re: Stock pot gin still

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MooseMan wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 10:45 am I'm already starting to collect bits and bobs to build a little gin still that I can run in the house on top of the hob,
The advise I provided was from the original intent you made, a little gin still..

Now it has moved on the something completely different..

A small gin still does not require what you planning to do.. yes my has 2" piping, but what forgotten is that I have multipal setup with interchangeable pieces..

You're building something that would go on a 5 gal unit.. reducing from the first elbow down to 1/2" with a small short liebig in the range of 12" would be sufficient..

What is escaping from your building thoughts now is the original intent, which was a "little gin still", and gin still is run/operated very slow..

Mars
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Re: Stock pot gin still

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MooseMan wrote: Sat Feb 11, 2023 8:37 am Yes you're right Mars, I noticed quite a bit of flex today when I was dry fitting it together. And that's just the riser, elbows and lyne arm. With a condenser on it will be just too much. It's surprising how much it all starts to weigh!

What I plan to do is mount the condenser on a small tripod that i have, which I can adjust to releive the strain on both the lid/pot joint and the copper cap that i soldered to the lid.
Not sure how well that will work yet but once my brain is less fuzzy I'll have a mess around with it.
I also have an idea for using a couple of sets of Aluminium bracing legs along the condenser, which will also have a certain heat sinking effect.
Moose, I may have missed something or misunderstood in the post.
From the pot lid to the first 90 is your riser, then the lyne arm then another 90 and
[i]then the next section of pipe that goes towards the lid[/i]
Is that your PC? Or does your PC attach at the bottom of that?
If its not the PC what's the reasoning for it? Just curious
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Re: Stock pot gin still

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Sporacle wrote: Sat Feb 11, 2023 10:41 amMoose, I may have missed something or misunderstood in the post.
From the pot lid to the first 90 is your riser, then the lyne arm then another 90 and
[i]then the next section of pipe that goes towards the lid[/i]
Is that your PC? Or does your PC attach at the bottom of that?
If its not the PC what's the reasoning for it? Just curious
:D
Thanks for taking interest Sporacle.

The section of pipe that is pictured going back down to the lid is just a short length of 35mm that will actually be on a shallow angle from the top, to get me past/away from, the heat of the pot before my condenser starts. So the condenser will attach to the end of the reducer at 22mm.

I'll put up another pic once I've got a bit further with it to make it look a little clearer, but not feeling at all well so my brain and body don't wanna work, pretty sure I've got COVID at the moment.
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Re: Stock pot gin still

Post by Sporacle »

MooseMan wrote: Sat Feb 11, 2023 11:16 am The section of pipe that is pictured going back down to the lid is just a short length of 35mm that will actually be on a shallow angle from the top, to get me past/away from, the heat of the pot before my condenser starts. So the condenser will attach to the end of the reducer at 22mm.
Makes sense now, lost a bit in the photos perspective.
Looking good, just try and keep the weight centred as much as possible.
Hope your feeling better soon
Happy building :D
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Re: Stock pot gin still

Post by MooseMan »

Thanks Sporacle I appreciate that.

Not feeling any better as yet, but the trusty old Co-codamol are doing a job.

Since I confused matters yesterday by showing the copper facing back down to the pot, I went out and assembled it today so that I could post a pic of what I intend it to look like setup.
The condenser is not built yet but the pic shows a length of 22mm coming off the final reducer, that will be my PC.
IMG_20230211_135150_744~2.jpg
I'm toying with shortening the riser length in order to reduce leverage force on the pot lid seal and soldered cap. :?:
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Re: Stock pot gin still

Post by EricTheRed »

Get a piece if copper, make a brace to the side of the lid.
Will stabilize it chop chop
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Re: Stock pot gin still

Post by amh71 »

Whenever you have thin lid making the riser into a swan neck by type putting a 45 angle at top and bottom will keep much of the weight balanced over the lid.

I think SBB posted a photo of a t500 boiler with one not too long ago if you have a search. The first still i made many years once I realised the still spirits head was a load of junk but the boiler was quite usable used a similar idea.
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Re: Stock pot gin still

Post by MooseMan »

Thanks guys for commenting on my thread.

I've thought a bit about balancing and leverage forces on the lid etc and wondered if I should make a "Dogleg" off the lid to centre the weight now I have felt how much the whole assembly weighs. I think I could cut 100mm off the riser and use that to make a Dogleg to offset the weight of the copper.

When my brain is working normally again I'll see what I can do with centre of balance, before I get on with sorting the PC and seals.
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Re: Stock pot gin still

Post by MooseMan »

My wider, 20mm PTFE tape turned up today while I was at work, so I got to cutting and wrapping, and now I have a lid gasket!
IMG_20230217_182405_353.jpg
Now I'm feeling relatively human again other than the strange daily afternoon fatigue, I'm looking to do some tests tomorrow for lid/joint seals on this thing.
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Re: Stock pot gin still

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Ok, got it all together, got some binder clips to seal the lid. (Gonna get my nephew to 3D print some dedicated clips for this I think)
IMG-20230218-WA0004.jpeg
A wrap of tape on each of the 3 assembly joints and it all fits nice and snug.
I made a bracing leg to hold the PC and take all the weight/force off the lid and cap, simple and it works really well.
IMG-20230218-WA0002.jpeg
Got it up to a full water boil, no vapour leaks anywhere, so I'm happy with that side of it.

Now onto the PC.
I've had this idea bouncing around my head since I first put the main still together, and with time and smaller scale on my side I want to try it.

I'm going to try to run this still with no water cooling, by having a long PC that has loads of Ali heat sinks attached, and if required, also fans.
I know air cooling has been done already and done well, but not mostly passive as far as I know, which is what I'm aiming at.

So to start the experiment I drilled out and fitted a few round heatsinks that I collected, nice snug fit over the copper with a wrap of Ali tape. There's nowhere near enough thermal mass in just these few, to get the job done, but I wanted to see what happened.
IMG_20230218_121831_465.jpg
I got the still up to boil with just water and it ran for 11mins condensing fine before the water started to get hot and I got some wisps of steam, so I shut down to do some more work on heat sinks.
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Re: Stock pot gin still

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Had a couple of hours to mess with some more heat sinks, gave it some brain time and came up with an idea.

So, I have lots of assorted heatsinks from stripping computers and have kept them to weigh in as Ali scrap at some point.
I wanted a way to give a square flat based heatsink, maximum contact with a round copper tube, not so easy!

But also ideally I need a reliable means of being able to take them on and off my condenser easily for packing away and also to move them to whatever position I need for the best passive cooling effect.

So, I came up with the following.
A "Strap" of a required size is cut from Ali plate and formed around the 22mm copper tube to produce a U shape that gives quite a lot of Ali contact with the tubing.
IMG_20230219_111636_659.jpg
This provides some thermal mass of it's own to migrate heat away from the copper condenser along the arms of the U and, also leaves two nice flat surfaces to attach a heatsink either side of the U arms, which is what does the real work.
IMG_20230219_112443_865.jpg
All in all, as solutions go I think it's a good one and is very easily scaled up both in numbers and in size.
It all looks a bit rough and ready at the moment but I have faith!

Both the Ali strap and the heatsink face are polished for maximum contact and bonded with Acrylic tape that has good thermal transfer property.

I can "Hang" these along the condenser in any configuration I want or think will be the most efficient, and as and when time permits I can make and add more, until I reach maximum real estate, then if I still can't condense vapour through a full run, I'll give in and add a fan.
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Re: Stock pot gin still

Post by NZChris »

Over the years, I've seen some very efficient CPU cooling units that could easily be used to get rid of a lot of heat from a still. I have some in my stash for if I ever want to experiment with building an air still or some type of air-forced reflux hybrid, but I have thrown away some good ones.
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Re: Stock pot gin still

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NZChris wrote: Tue Feb 21, 2023 11:03 pm Over the years, I've seen some very efficient CPU cooling units that could easily be used to get rid of a lot of heat from a still. I have some in my stash for if I ever want to experiment with building an air still or some type of air-forced reflux hybrid, but I have thrown away some good ones.
Yes there are some real nice ones with built in heat pipes and so on that should do a really good job of getting rid of heat fast Chris. I actually have one that I may play with one day. I think it was called an Arctic something.

The only drawback is that they are designed to pull thermal energy away from a very small surface area on the back of a chip, so not sure how well that efficiency would transfer to what we want them to do.

I'm going to make a few of these U shaped jobbies I came up with, and do another water boil with them on the condenser to see what I get, then make some decisions from there as to whether I go with a fan to assist.
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Re: Stock pot gin still

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Had some time to make a few more of the hanging heat sinks that I came up with, so I did another boil test and it runs for much longer now before eventually getting hot all the way to the end of the PC, but it still gets hot. I think outdoors with some cooler air going over all the fins it would hold up ok on an ethanol run.

So, as I'm running it in a warm kitchen, I'm going to add a fan. It's a 120mm quiet fan from a mini server unit that I'll wire to a low output 12v DC adapter I've found.

I'll do a vinegar run tomorrow night with the fan in place and see how it performs, I'm very confident it will knock down at a full boil with the fan.
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Re: Stock pot gin still

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Vinegar run done, 6% acetic acid solution.

I waited until the output started warming up, switched on the fan and in 30 secs it got cold.

Soon as it's cooled enough to handle, I'm going to strip down and give it a quick water clean, then go straight into a sac run with some watered down heads.
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Re: Stock pot gin still

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Sac run finished and I'm calling it a success, as even without the fan I ran for well over 20mins with just hot ethanol from the condenser.

I turned the fan on and got at or below blood temp almost immediately.

Top of riser.
IMG_20230301_173428_477.jpg
End of condenser in front of fan.
IMG_20230301_173736_454.jpg
I'll put some wider view pics up when I get chance to run it with more time. Maybe in a new thread.

A question for the experienced if I may?
My hob cycles, would I get better results putting copper into the boiler, (I have some small, thick chunks of cooper plate) or putting an Ali plate below the boiler?
I have some Ali checker plate that I could use, but there will be very little surface contact on one side?
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Re: Stock pot gin still

Post by EricTheRed »

Got a cast iron frying pan?
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Re: Stock pot gin still

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EricTheRed wrote: Wed Mar 01, 2023 8:21 pm Got a cast iron frying pan?
I don't, sadly. Or at least not one big enough to fit the pot inside.
I'll be taking a tape measure to the charity shops on the weekend though, if that's the best solution Eric?
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