Water - Ideal additives after osmosis

[Evil_Dark]

Hi there,
I plan to have a RO-DI system to have a better water than what the city supplies to me. It should make a nice difference when making whisky...
After seeing some big brands of bourbon distilleries speaking about their "special water" sourced that have limestone on it (or other minerals) and makes the bourbon so special... It makes me wonder what could I add to the water after the osmosis to enhance the final product? Or at least help the yeast to be happy.
As the osmosis-de-ionised water has not much left in it, I could have the opportunity to "build" the water profile that I want? Could be also true for more scottish water if I want to mimic more this way too.

Any suggestion?

[Jstroke]

My suggestion would be to research the mineral content or mineral profiles of areas close to in the area of those distilleries. You might find it with county or state agencies. From there it should be simple math to build your parts per million per gallon. However finding the minerals that will dissolve may be where the buck stops. I’m no chemist. But it would seem to me that there are a multitude of things to work on other than perfect water that will seriously impact product quality. It could be a fun project though

[Stonecutter]

I think you’ll outclass the commercial guys without the special water additives. That’s just commercial hype. You’ve already gone the extra step by purifying your water supply. Add to that an informed and disciplined Distilling process and you’re ahead of the game.

[Stonecutter]

At this point I would think PH control would be the biggest thing to focus on

[Salt Must Flow]

I've kept RO units most of my life. I'm positive that you can skip the DI. Any decent RO unit should produce anywhere from 2-5 ppm water where an RO-DI system will produce 0 PPM. The difference is so small that it really isn't worth messing around with DI. I've purchased DI resin and I've also recharged my own DI resin. It really isn't worth messing around with.

Every drop of everything I've ever distilled was done using RO water and I've never added anything to my water. I have a topic here for an RO unit I bought for less than $100. I added a 2nd RO membrane for $25 and it produced 3 gph. Later I added a Booster Pump and it more than doubled the production rate to 7.2 gph. DI resin just isn't anywhere near as important as the efficiency of two membranes and production rate. If you want the link to that thread which includes the plumbing diagram for two membranes I'll post it. A booster pump is pretty much required in order to produce pure water at maximum speed & efficiency.

[Stonecutter]

I’ve never used any kind of filtration unit and I have shitty City water. This isn’t a beer brewing forum. I think the key to success is not in the water but in the distillation process.

[Salt Must Flow]

I’ve never used any kind of filtration unit and I have shitty City water. This isn’t a beer brewing forum. I think the key to success is not in the water but in the distillation process.

I get what you're saying, but I've kept salt water aquariums for many years and city water will kill coral ASAP. City water makes aquariums DEAD. I've seen it. I immediately started using RO-DI then later just used RO water for literally everything from drinking, cooking and anything that needs water. City water contains Nitrates, Phosphates, Fluoride and God knows what other nonsense. Recycled piss and shit water. Screw that mess

[Stonecutter]

[ City water contains Nitrates, Phosphates, Fluoride and God knows what other nonsense. Recycled piss and shit water. Screw that mess

Edit: Recycled water? isn’t all Water recycled? I’m not trying to distill Whiskey in the reefs
I assure you that the distillation process does more for the water “purification” than any RO unit.

Extra special Filtered water is a plus but not a must. IMHO

[Salt Must Flow]

[ City water contains Nitrates, Phosphates, Fluoride and God knows what other nonsense. Recycled piss and shit water. Screw that mess

Edit: Recycled water? isn’t all Water recycled? I’m not trying to distill Whiskey in the reefs
I assure you that the distillation process does more for the water “purification” than any RO unit.

Extra special Filtered water is a plus but not a must. IMHO

Well that's a straw man fallacy. I never said RO water was a must. Where did you get that? Use recycled piss and shit water all you want without any filtration. Why would I give a shit?

Have you ever tested the ppm of your water, distilled it in any way and then tested the ppm of the water that exited with your still?

[Stonecutter]

You’re pretty proud of your fancy water and I’m happy for you.
I’m simply giving EvilDark my opinion.

[Evil_Dark]

I've kept RO units most of my life. I'm positive that you can skip the DI. Any decent RO unit should produce anywhere from 2-5 ppm water where an RO-DI system will produce 0 PPM. The difference is so small that it really isn't worth messing around with DI. I've purchased DI resin and I've also recharged my own DI resin. It really isn't worth messing around with.

Every drop of everything I've ever distilled was done using RO water and I've never added anything to my water. I have a topic here for an RO unit I bought for less than $100. I added a 2nd RO membrane for $25 and it produced 3 gph. Later I added a Booster Pump and it more than doubled the production rate to 7.2 gph. DI resin just isn't anywhere near as important as the efficiency of two membranes and production rate. If you want the link to that thread which includes the plumbing diagram for two membranes I'll post it. A booster pump is pretty much required in order to produce pure water at maximum speed & efficiency.

Thanks for your input. the osmosis kits sold almost all have the DI included... The kit I've buyed for 60$ is a 75GPD with the carbon and DI included! So why not...

[Evil_Dark]

I’ve never used any kind of filtration unit and I have shitty City water. This isn’t a beer brewing forum. I think the key to success is not in the water but in the distillation process.

Did you know that certains minerals ( I have to look back on the threads I've gone through to find which one) that mess up the tastes in the distillate, and there is some of these bad minerals or compounds found in certains city water.
I struggle to remove some bad flavors obtained in my all grain whiskys so now I'm at playing with better water. The RO/DI filtration unit is cheaper than buying water for one mash, so it's an easy test for me to do!
When your well / city water is good enough, you absolutely don't need to worry about that for sure! But I highly doubt that it's my case.

[Stonecutter]

I totally agree EvilDark. No doubting the importance of understanding your water supply in our process. I’ve priced out and seriously considered Adding a top-notch water filtration system to my house not only for the hobby but also for the health my family.

Keep us all posted Friend.

[Ben]

Download this: https://www.brunwater.com/download

Read this: viewtopic.php?p=7707137&hilit=minerality#p7707137


Water adjustment is good stuff.

[Evil_Dark]

Download this: https://www.brunwater.com/download

Read this: viewtopic.php?p=7707137&hilit=minerality#p7707137


Water adjustment is good stuff.

Thanks for the links!
Great info right there!

[SouthwestAl]

I’ve never used any kind of filtration unit and I have shitty City water. This isn’t a beer brewing forum. I think the key to success is not in the water but in the distillation process.

Really depends what you are distilling.

For Gin, I use RO water to proof down, as I really don't want minerals in the water I use. Same would apply with Vodka, Absinthe and anything botanical based.

I want to keep the cuts that have a certain level of oils that would otherwise louche if using water with minerals in, and maintain a clear final product.

[BrewinBrian44]

I use an HBrewO RO kit. Comes in a hard shell briefcase with ports on the side. I’m sure I’m overpaying for it, but it’s plug and play and easily portable. Strips my well water down to zero TDS. It’s a little slow, but works very well. I just need to plan my brew/mash day one day in advance for water collection.

My only consideration about adding minerals is the effect on pH. I always add some powdered calcium carbonate to buffer against pH drop. It’s not as critical for all grain, but a must for sugar wash. You can achieve the same thing with oyster shells, however I find powdered CC is a simpler method for me. To each their own.

Another thing to consider is calcium benefits yeast health.

For beer, I’m more particular about water. I keep it simple and use different amounts of Calcium Chloride or Gypsym to dial in the flavor profile I want. I also add a tiny bit of lactic acid to certain beers to achieve a desired mash pH for the style. I really like the predictability of it. I used to check my mash pH with every beer, but always saw the same numbers, so now I don’t even bother.

I’ve had excellent results using RO water for everything I make whether it’s beer or spirits. I also use it for proofing down.

[Stonecutter]

I’ve never used any kind of filtration unit and I have shitty City water. This isn’t a beer brewing forum. I think the key to success is not in the water but in the distillation process.

Really depends what you are distilling.

For Gin, I use RO water to proof down, as I really don't want minerals in the water I use. Same would apply with Vodka, Absinthe and anything botanical based.

I want to keep the cuts that have a certain level of oils that would otherwise louche if using water with minerals in, and maintain a clear final product.

I took the OP as a question regarding water profile for fermentation purposes.
I use distilled water to proof my product.

[Evil_Dark]

Another thing to consider is calcium benefits yeast health.

For beer, I’m more particular about water. I keep it simple and use different amounts of Calcium Chloride or Gypsym to dial in the flavor profile I want.

Very interesting answer.
Can you elaborate a bit more about the gypsum and the correlation with the flavor profile? What is the particular flavor that you can dial in with gypsum?
Thanks!

[Stonecutter]

Another thing to consider is calcium benefits yeast health.

For beer, I’m more particular about water. I keep it simple and use different amounts of Calcium Chloride or Gypsym to dial in the flavor profile I want.

Very interesting answer.
Can you elaborate a bit more about the gypsum and the correlation with the flavor profile? What is the particular flavor that you can dial in with gypsum?
Thanks!

EvilDark,
The effects that Calcium sulphate or gypsum can have on a mash can seem complex. Dialing in a flavor profile for beer isn’t like maturing a whiskey or making neutral.
There is a ton of info out there you just need to search for it. Even the “How to Brew” book can be easily downloaded off the internet for free. Take the time and find out for yourself.

[BrewinBrian44]

Another thing to consider is calcium benefits yeast health.

For beer, I’m more particular about water. I keep it simple and use different amounts of Calcium Chloride or Gypsym to dial in the flavor profile I want.

Very interesting answer.
Can you elaborate a bit more about the gypsum and the correlation with the flavor profile? What is the particular flavor that you can dial in with gypsum?
Thanks!

The flavor impact only applies to beer, not spirits. With beer, gypsum can enhance the perception of crispness and accentuate hops. Calcium chloride can enhance the perception of fullness and sweetness. It has quite a dramatic impact.

If you brew a hoppy beer and want an easy way to evaluate the effect of these minerals, you can pour two glasses and dose one with gypsum, it’ll taste like a different beer. In the past, I’ve actually added some gypsum to a finished, flabby IPA right in the keg and it worked great.

Water chemistry is one of the least considered aspects of homebrewing, but arguably has the biggest impact on the quality of the beer. It’s more important than the fancy ingredients in a recipe. People are intimidated by it, but it’s actually fairly straight forward.

Understanding and incorporating water chemistry into my brewing protocols took my beer from mediocre to winning medals.

[Stonecutter]

Understanding and incorporating water chemistry into my brewing protocols took my beer from mediocre to winning medals.

BB44 I believe you and I are on the same page here. For the sake of THIS topic do you think that same attention to “chemistry” will do the same for your Hooch?
IMO Whatever subtle profile is achieved that distinguishes a great beer from a shitty one will be stripped during the distillation process.
Hell it’s hard enough to get a strong fruit profile into a properly cut Brandy.

Edit: I want to reiterate the fact that I’ve already stated that I believe in the importance of water chemistry for our ferments and I encourage ED to explore every rabbit hole they can find. I’m simply giving an opinion regarding a final distilled product which is what this forum is for.

[Evil_Dark]

I understand the difference between beer and a distilled product. There is no minerals carried over in the whisky, I got that.
The only effect that can change the whisky flavors in the end is probably how we keep the yeast happy during fermentation.
In my case, I have a weird taste that I found in every newmake whisky that I made, regardless of the mash bill.
Carbon filtering the newmake attenuates it a bit, but I do need to get rid of that taste prior to continue because that breaks me from willing drinking my own stuff (I really enjoy whiskys in general, and I do have a nice collection of fines whisky in my bar). I purchased some barrels to age the real thing, but before using a barrel I want to dial in the newmake correctly.
Now I’m at playing around with water to see how it will impact my newmake, our city water is full of chlorine for sure, but I struggle to find the water treatment report of the water composition (where I could see what minerals are left in it).
My RO-DI will arrive in a day or two so I will mash an all grain that I already made a couple weeks ago with different variables, to compare every variable separately until I find what makes this weird acidic tartaric unpleasant taste.

Thanks for your input guys, the base question was about the idea of improving the osmosed water when used for a whisky. While having a highly purified water, I was in the idea that it woukd have be the right time to add specific minerals to dial the water similar to some great distilleries that make great classics whisky…

[Ben]

BB44 I believe you and I are on the same page here. For the sake of THIS topic do you think that same attention to “chemistry” will do the same for your Hooch?

I think it is, If it provides the nutrients required for the yeast to do their job. If your getting stalls, under attenuation, off flavors carrying into the spirit because the yeast is unhealthy then it's for sure worth making some adjustments.

P.s. can also help mash/conversion, and sparge if your doing so