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So there's multiple ways to get to the product we desire, but which way do you prefer & why?

Double Distillation
Single run with a thumper
Single run with plates
Other?

Reason I ask is that I borrowed a buddy's Brewhaus rig and he has a thumper. While the time savings with a single run with thumper is nice, I'm not sold that the quality is equal or better. So I figured to ask the HD community.

I double distil using a preheater which saves much of the time and energy used doing the strips, plus there is no upper limit to the size of the wash it can strip.

I get to select my heart cut from a full boiler charge of low wines.

Forgot to mention: anyone use DOUBLE thumper???

I recall someone did build one not too far back. Too much trouble for me, I don't make enough rum to warrant building one. It's a design more suited to daily runs for industry and occasional essence runs for high ester rums.

Keg with shotgun for stripping run then copper pot with thumper for spirit run

Big River

In my current state as a novice home Distiller…
Whiskey and Rum- Pot Still strip and spirit run
Neutral- pot Strip and a CCVM run.


Dabbling with my plated column. Still too inexperienced to have a full understanding of its true capabilities but I do plan to do one and done Corn likker runs with it.

Pot still strip and spirit

Pot still, double distillation for me. I have plans to build a thug more, and might try comparing a double distillation to once with a thumper, and see what tastes better. For me right now, it suits my needs, the time that I have available (because I can divide up the stripping and spirit runs, sometimes by months), and the equipment that I I’ve on hand. Also, I’m inexperienced, so I figured that it’s best to learn on the simplest equipment first, and only then explore other options.

For Bourbon... steam strip, then potstill one or two more times.
For Whiskey... potstill off the grain, then redistill.
For neutral... strip, then redistill with a column.

It depends...

but mostly what Shady said.

But rum was pretty good through two plates.

And UJSSM is pretty good through zero through four plates.

And the flavored spirits benefit from some wood, but that's a different topic.

rubberduck71 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 2:19 pm
So there's multiple ways to get to the product we desire, but which way do you prefer & why?

Double distillation for the control it affords in making whiskey.

I like using a strip run to achieve a target aggregate low wines ABV for the subsequent spirit run. Then on that spirit run, the ability to control a linear takeoff and predictable ABV drop throughout the run. This creates a tangible, lengthy separation of fractions (and flavors) making cuts a straightforward process.

A lower ABV of low wines going into the spirit run directly translates to a lower aggregate final ABV that minimizes the amount of proofing water needed that can dilute flavor.

From all accounts, a thumper tends to create an elevated takeoff ABV over a long stretch, potentially skewing the separation we seek at both ends of the run in order to make our cuts.

I'm of zero help, I'm afraid. All I know is double distillation in a pot still, and reflux on mu ccvm.

Twisted Brick wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 7:09 pm

rubberduck71 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 2:19 pm
So there's multiple ways to get to the product we desire, but which way do you prefer & why?

Double distillation for the control it affords in making whiskey.

Plus one on whiskey and most anything else.

It took me to build a 5 plate flute before I realised the benefits of running low wine. Once you have a full charge of low wines or just a high charge of low wines with fresh mash the time factor disappears because of the volume of product you can age. And your quality will be better, mostly because you have enough to be selective.

Double - whiskey, rum and any sugar washes (including ujssm)
1.5 - brandy

Coming up on 3 years experience for me. Amazing how time flies.

For all my products I strip on a pot still.
For flavored spirits I do the spirit run on a pot still.
For neutral I do the spirit run on 2" x 42" CCVM.

I ferment on grain for mashes with corn or rye, off grain for mashes without sticky grains.

Currently waiting on parts to build a 4" 3 plate column with new keg boiler. I want to try a one and done on a whiskey mash.
Also working on building a steam rig for cooking corn and doing all of my stripping.

See-unz how this is in the “whiskey” forum, I’d add that double distillation (strip + spirit) using the potstill is my preferred method.

Ferment an all grain mash to around 8%ABV using inexpensive baker’s yeast and then run through the potstill. After making cuts on the spirit run, put the spirit on wood for 12 months or more, and it’ll be a tasty treat.
ss

still_stirrin wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 7:26 am See-unz how this is in the “whiskey” forum, I’d add that double distillation (strip + spirit) using the potstill is my preferred method.

Ferment an all grain mash to around 8%ABV using inexpensive baker’s yeast and then run through the potstill. After making cuts on the spirit run, put the spirit on wood for 12 months or more, and it’ll be a tasty treat.
ss

Ditto! Keep it simple and very effective.

Double distillation using a pot still.

NZChris wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 2:28 pm I double distil using a preheater which saves much of the time and energy used doing the strips, plus there is no upper limit to the size of the wash it can strip.

I get to select my heart cut from a full boiler charge of low wines.

Chris, I've read multiple times over the course of my many months browsing the forum, of your use of a pre-heating technique.

Would you be willing to share some detail of this please? I'm super interested.

Moose

Setsumi wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 9:20 pm It took me to build a 5 plate flute before I realised the benefits of running low wine. Once you have a full charge of low wines or just a high charge of low wines with fresh mash the time factor disappears because of the volume of product you can age. And your quality will be better, mostly because you have enough to be selective.

This is a great post. Also speaks to the OP's original question.

MooseMan wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 2:32 pm Would you be willing to share some detail of this please? I'm super interested.

It's an old design that comes up in this thread. viewtopic.php?t=82520

Searching will find more threads on them.

Twisted Brick wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 7:09 pm
From all accounts, a thumper tends to create an elevated takeoff ABV over a long stretch, potentially skewing the separation we seek at both ends of the run in order to make our cuts.

I've only ever double Pot distilled or used my 4 plater for Rum but last few times I used the pot and the thumper . Stripped wash in boiler with tails and heads in thumper and it was 87% ABV down to around 76% ABV for the keeper jars . .... So yes , I'd agree with that Twisted

Not sure about skewed separation . It was what it was . I'm seriously thinking about putting the plated still on the shelf .

Pot and a thumper are making Rum and the Packed reflux still does the neutral

I'll miss the pretty Windows ... But WTF

NZChris wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 3:28 pm

MooseMan wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 2:32 pm Would you be willing to share some detail of this please? I'm super interested.

It's an old design that comes up in this thread. viewtopic.php?t=82520

Searching will find more threads on them.

Ah yes I've read that thread right through a while back when I first realised you mentioned preheater a few times.
I was hoping that you'd have a build thread (I've searched but no luck) on yours, maybe with pics. I love pics!

MooseMan wrote: ↑Sun Feb 26, 2023 1:57 am Ah yes I've read that thread right through a while back when I first realised you mentioned preheater a few times.
I was hoping that you'd have a build thread (I've searched but no luck) on yours, maybe with pics. I love pics!

I built mine when I was a newbie and built it out of what was available in scrapyards at the time. The chances of anyone stumbling on similar vessels isn't great, so I don't see the point in point in posting a tutorial. Do what I did and use the old drawings and remember the simple physics stuff like, 'heat rises' and 'liquid runs downhill', and you should be ok.

NZChris wrote: ↑Sun Feb 26, 2023 2:13 am

MooseMan wrote: ↑Sun Feb 26, 2023 1:57 am Ah yes I've read that thread right through a while back when I first realised you mentioned preheater a few times.
I was hoping that you'd have a build thread (I've searched but no luck) on yours, maybe with pics. I love pics!

I built mine when I was a newbie and built it out of what was available in scrapyards at the time. The chances of anyone stumbling on similar vessels isn't great, so I don't see the point in point in posting a tutorial. Do what I did and use the old drawings and remember the simple physics stuff like, 'heat rises' and 'liquid runs downhill', and you should be ok.

I get you Chris.

Would you be willing to describe your own setup then, and how it's works in practice, so that I can understand it a little better?

I've been thinking a lot about capturing the latent heat from the boiler/riser/arm/condenser to use for other things, as I'm currently trying to get a non water cooled PC to work on a small still, but I don't have anything solid in my head yet and your preheater keeps rising to the top of my thoughts.

Cool thread RubberDuck.

For whiskey, double distillation in a pot still. 4 or 5 all grain stripping runs per spirit run. Feints get recycled into next spirit run.

rubberduck71 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 2:34 pm Forgot to mention: anyone use DOUBLE thumper???

I am just now getting somewhat used to running my double thumper.

My distillation techniques are largely dictated by the size of my equipment.

I have a 30 gallon fermenter. I ferment on grain and do about 29 gallon ferments.
By the time I squeeze grains and let the yeast settle I end up with about 19-20 gallons of clean boiler charge and about 4-5 gallons of yeast sludge.

My old set up was a single 8 gallon pot.
With it, I would do two strips yielding around 4.5 gallons of low wines, then I'd mix that with the remaining 3-4 gallons of of clean mash and do a spirit run.
This process was exhausting used a lot of propane, but yielded some damn fine corn whiskey.

Now I have a 15.5gal keg and 2 5gal thumpers, so I can load up about 14gal in the main boiler, then put about 2.5gal of mash in each thumper and run it all once.
As far as I can tell the product quality is almost exactly the same if not a little better. The double thumper is power hungry. I use about just as much propane doing a run as I would doing 2 strips and a spirit, but it takes about half the time.

I am still experimenting with how I like to incorporate my feints. Sometimes I dump em in the main boiler (the theory here is they undergo 3 more distillation to get cleaned up) and sometimes I add em to the last thumper (the theory here is having a higher proof charge in the thumper boosts overall product proof, which is typically not my goal).

Hillbilly Popstar wrote: ↑Sun Feb 26, 2023 6:31 am
I am still experimenting with how I like to incorporate my feints. Sometimes I dump em in the main boiler (the theory here is they undergo 3 more distillation to get cleaned up) and sometimes I add em to the last thumper (the theory here is having a higher proof charge in the thumper boosts overall product proof, which is typically not my goal).

If you're making a whiskey it might be pretty interesting to charge your thumpers like they do with double retort rums. My understanding is that they charge retort 1 with high tails (40-60 proof) and retort 2 with low tails (20-40 proof).

Bolverk wrote: ↑Sun Feb 26, 2023 6:46 am

Hillbilly Popstar wrote: ↑Sun Feb 26, 2023 6:31 am
I am still experimenting with how I like to incorporate my feints. Sometimes I dump em in the main boiler (the theory here is they undergo 3 more distillation to get cleaned up) and sometimes I add em to the last thumper (the theory here is having a higher proof charge in the thumper boosts overall product proof, which is typically not my goal).

If you're making a whiskey it might be pretty interesting to charge your thumpers like they do with double retort rums. My understanding is that they charge retort 1 with high tails (40-60 proof) and retort 2 with low tails (20-40 proof).

I've read several different opinions about what high and low wines actually are.
I've reached the conclusion that the best distilleries keep this a closely guarded secret.