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Hello,

This is not subject about this:

• viewtopic.php?t=78802
• viewtopic.php?t=87634
• etc

I would like to have your advice/review regarding this upgrade 1:

• T500 boiler
• bulkhead adapter
• 2" Filter plate like this one: https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/He90a625d270 ... .jpg_.webp. I will probably drill a 10mm 3/8" hole to let the liquid comes down.
• A SPP support, kind of filter, 10mm thick (not a scrubber) [url]https://sprezynkipryzmatyczne.pl/83-lar ... 50.jpg[url]
• 2" 500 mm tube packed with SPP + some copper SPP at the top
• SPP packing stops around here
• a sight glass (where I could see top of the spp section, to check if flooding occurs)
• 2" Filter plate like this. I will probably drill a 10mm 3/8" hole to let the liquid comes down
• bulkhead adapter
• The t500 with its standard still spirit SS scrubber

Could it cause problem to have two section of different packing type ?
Could it cause problem to have a hole/empty space with no packing in the column?


Upgrade 2: basically the same as upgrade 1 but in the T500 only keep 150mm (6") of the packing at the top near the the condenser (copper + SS scrubber) and then, with no gap/isolation directly SPP to reach 1m:

• T500 boiler
• bulkhead adapter
• 2" Filter plate like this one: I will probably drill a 10mm 3/8" hole to let the liquid comes down.
• A SPP support, kind of filter, 10mm thick (not a scrubber) [url]https://sprezynkipryzmatyczne.pl/83-lar ... 50.jpg[url]
• 2" 500 mm tube packed with SPP
• bulkhead adapter (filled with SPP)
• The t500 with its standard SS scrubber & SPP packing

Which setup is better ?

Thanks in advance for your help!

Yes, you will run into issues with flooding and surging if you mix SPP and Pall rings (the standard T500 packing). A better idea would be to extend your column and use the same packing throughout.

Just seen this.
A few months ago I extended my T500 which I've had for years with a 450mm SS 2 inch spool and SPP from Poland in the extension and the original T500 ceramics in the original T500 column.
A non welded bulkhead to 2 inch (64mm) triclamp on the pot lid. Then sightglass, then a triclamped strainer basket (Got big holes in it, not a mesh with a bit of copper scrubby on top - purely to stop the SPP dropping out) then the SPP filled to the top of the spool .Then a double 64mm tri clamp ferrule to 1.5 inch BSP into the original T500 column. A triclamp joint works perfectly as the seal between the top ferrule and the T55 column base when screwed in.

With the SPP the column becomes heavy so the column needs support being on top of a relatively flimsy pot lid.

When the SPP was in the top part it didn't seem to like it. With the ceramics in the top part and SPP in the bottom spool it was ok in some circumstances at full power.

I only generally make neutral, so don't do stripping runs as such. Just run the reflux still hard on the wash but take strict cuts.
When running the original wash at say 12% I could run it flat out ok.
When doing a spirit run at 40 pcent start it didn't like it - I'm assuming the reflux condenser was overwhelmed as it is pretty small relative to what a self build would install. The product would stall then gob out in floods. I reduced the power input using a controller - only by a small margin and all was ok again. When the hearts came through I was able to ramp up to 2kW again (full power).

The improvement in the neutral was quite noticeable. 96 pcent easily reached at a decent take off rate through the hearts on the spirit run.

As an aside, I often wondered why people keep saying that reflux condenser water outlet temp on a coolant managed still is no indication of potential product quality. Because it is on a T500. Even with the extension I could drive it much the same as with just the original column, except that instead of, say 50C outlet temp to get 93 pcent product, 60C outlet gave 96 pcent at a much higher flow rate. I suspect that it's because the reflux condenser on the T500 is working towards its capacity being small, so the water flow through is reflected on the outlet water temp. Whereas a large condenser (see below) has much less flow through it so the outlet temp of the water is only half a degree or so lower than the vapour outlet temp.
As an addendum without doing any calcs I wonder how much extra flow is possible through the 54mm copper as opposed to the 50mm SS as the ID is 3-4mm difference.

Since then curiosity got the better of me and I made a spool from 54mm copper with a (drastically oversized - I should have looked closer at the spec before buying) reflux condenser. So, the column is now 1m filled with SPP and ceramics as above with a 10 inch condenser on top into a 600mm leibeg. This will rattle out 96 pcent at 1.8 to 2 litres per hour and a smidgen below this at 2.4 to 2.6 litres per hour in the hearts as it did a couple of days ago.
I'm primarily a brewer and must admit i find the actual distilling process a bit boring, so am looking at a 3 inch column to get the boring bit out of the way faster Before then the plan is to convert to a VM/LM on the 2 inch just to see what the fuss is about which will decide which way I go on the 3 inch. It will be modular, anyhow. I believe that some people use the LM to collect the fores and heads then switch to VM to collect the hearts.

One lesson learned was that the 2 inch SS ferrules are slack in the 54mm copper tube. This makes them a bugger to soft solder. It was easier to silver solder them.

worldsbestdistiller wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2023 2:01 pm As an aside, I often wondered why people keep saying that reflux condenser water outlet temp on a coolant managed still is no indication of potential product quality.

Can you point to/ put up a link to a discussion where that has been said ?......Id be interested to see one?
I dont think anyone has said it cant be done that way, its just not the easiest or best way imo.
In regard to running T500 reflux stills, I have stated on many occasions that its much, much easier to just watch the output speed than to stand guard over a thermometer that is fluctuating up and down.
As a wise man on this forum once said "thermometers don't have taste buds"
With a tiny bit of experimentation and experience and a few tests of the product ABV under your belt , you wouldn't waste your time thermometer gazing again.
T500s come with thermometers because its the easiest way for "Still Spirits" to explain to people who have no idea how to run a still how to get a reasonable product.
The figures "temps " that they give are ball park at best.......you can do much better more easily without them.
Yes I have run a T500 many times, so I do have some idea.

Saltbush Bill wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2023 2:09 pm
Can you point to/ put up a link to a discussion where that has been said ?......Id be interested to see one?

Not without searching.
After much reading here, a common theme is discussion on the merits or otherwise about noting and using temperatures at various points of various types of still.
On the first run of the column with this new reflux condenser one of my first observations was around how the water outlet temp and temp curve to first product out isn't a good indicator of product out quality like on the T500 and could only assume that those who think it couldn't be have never driven a T500, much like I wondered what on earth they are on about because I'd never driven a coolant control still with a large reflux condenser.

Edited my first post as you were posting .....Please read again.

Saltbush Bill wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2023 2:09 pm Yes I have run a T500 many times, so I do have some idea.

Our minds obviously work differently and assimilate info differently.
To use your terminology, I certainly don't waste my time thermometer gazing nor do I waste my time on product flow gazing. Product flow in itself also doesn't have taste buds. Only the product produced tastes and only we have the taste buds.

Having run the T500 many times over the years I know that in my kitchen, with my water temp and pressure I can set the outlet from the reflux condenser at 50C (or whatever speed/ABV required) after settling down, double check the flow/ABV and basically leave it to get on with it for the next xx hours, my input taking cuts with the occasional tweak and ABV/taste test. The temp would sometimes wander slightly due to fluctuations in local water pressure which generally came back to the set temp after a few mins. The vapour temp on top also was handy, especially if I got slack at cutting towards the end of the run as tails appear so quickly.
Having spent many years on ships in machinery spaces, power stations and chemical factory in process environments literally continually glancing at multiple data sources to assimilate info on complex running machinery and product, is second nature, no conscious thinking involved, so running the T500 even if there were ten data points is a doddle to me. Listening to it as well is helpful. A glance most times I pass it glancing at all data points, inc flow.
A single data source in a (complex) process is a disaster waiting to happen.

I'll 100 pcent agree that Still Spirits don't do themselves or the T500 any favours in their instructions, but like in the world of brewing the best advice is to look at how the professionals do things then scale it down/adapt it to the super micro environment as in my brewery and in my distilling world like taking cuts from my very first run. SS want to sell carbon and turbo yeasts and other stuff to

Should you wish to run the T500, or anything else come to that in a different way, then that's fine - you're not me.
I'm always open to advice, but disagree in ignoring pertinent data points because I have a thing against them.
Wouldn't be here otherwise.

worldsbestdistiller wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2023 2:01 pm
I only generally make neutral, so don't do stripping runs as such. Just run the reflux still hard on the wash but take strict cuts.

You should be doing stripping runs then spirit runs if you want to make the best neutral?

Archee72 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 1:04 pm You should be doing stripping runs then spirit runs if you want to make the best neutral?

100% correct there Archee

Archee72 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 1:04 pm You should be doing stripping runs then spirit runs if you want to make the best neutral?

Stripping runs from a 12 pcent wash to produce a circa 30 pcent low wines in not much less time than to run the reflux 'hard' to produce 90 plus pcent for most of the run doesn't make sense to me when making a neutral.

I can now take the 30 pcnt and do a spirit run(s) without any dilution with non wash fresh water, or split it and dilute it to not that far above to the 12 pcent I started with, with 70 pcent of the 50 pcent still the original wash in a 25 litre pot and do multiple spirit runs.
or
Take the 90 plus pcent, dilute with 50 pcent fresh water and run easily achieving 95-96 cent at a high rate of take off or 96 pcent at a slightly lower take off. One single high quality spirit run with high dilution in the pot.
Anything produced from the first run below 90 pcent goes into the feints jar anyhow, so the 90 pcent plus in normally higher than that.
The calcs are crude, but you probably get the drift.

I've timed and tried it both ways. I'm willing to suck up the extra 20 odd mins which is basically stabilising the column to achieve the 90 pcent over the 30 pcent.
Basic maths.
Given that convention dictates automatically carrying out a stripping run I often wondered if I was missing something obvious as my taste buds and electricity bill were telling me I'd got summat correct. This is not an isolated practice, though as it's's mentioned occasionally in threads. Just been reading the thread on column packing and it's briefly mentioned in there.

Maybe you should do a controlled experiment by doing a one & done and then with a different charge a strip then spirit run and taste the difference?
Then you will know yourself which you prefer.
In regard to your original question I haven’t done any builds/ adaptations so can’t help you there