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So I ran my 12 gallon mash at 177 degrees. Speed was several drips then a stream. Every time right before the stream a small amount of vapor escaped. Water never got above 45 degrees F. Pump is pumping 264 GPH. Condensor is very cold to the touch. Using a heating element controlled by a PID. I backed off the temp and the still shutdown. What simple thing am I messing up. I'm a beginner

Using a PID.

You should avoid taking distilling advice from anyone who recommends a PID.

Get a power controller and remove the thermometers. Run watching the output stream.

If everything is cold then the vapor is more likely C02. +1 with Chris.
You can't run a still by temperature

So, you have a basic problem. You haven’t read the “beginner’s handbook.” You don’t run a boiler by thermometer, you run it by power. Use your senses. 177 may be the fractioning temp of the alcohol you want but that’s not true in the mixture you’re running. Watch the drip. Touch the pipes. Stick your fingers in the stream rub them to see how it feels. Sniff the product for heads and tailes. Give your jars a quick shake and watch the size of bubbles and how fast they disappear. Takes a while, but it’s really worth the effort. Enjoy the journey.

My guess is that you took the advice of a certain fool on Youtube when you decided it was a good idea to use a PID to heat your boiler.....that was your biggest mistake.
As others above have already stated you cant control your boiler with a PID.

Cookingupsomething wrote: ↑Sun Apr 02, 2023 7:52 pm Speed was several drips then a stream. Every time right before the stream a small amount of vapor escaped.

Do away with the PID, use a proper controller and you wont have the "drip drip , stream " problem .....and the puff of vapor will almost certainly disappear as well.
You will learn a lot more about how to distill properly by spending your time reading here rather than watching dodgy Youtube clips.

I'll put it this way to broaden the explanations already provided.
First you must understand that ethanol is infinitely miscible with water. Therefore the boiling point in the kettle is determined by the abv. An 8% beer will have a higher boiling point than a 10% beer. So the boiling point will be somewhere between 174 and 212.
And here is the kicker you are not understanding; once you start collecting distillate, the boiling point in the kettle starts to change and will continue to do so until there is no alcohol remaining in the kettle mixture.

If you choose a target temp of 177, once your PID control reads 177 it will turn off the heat input. This in turn knocks down any alcoholic vapor in suspension and stops distillate output. Not to mention kills the gradient in the column and therefore will promote smearing to the degree that you will never make your best distillate by running a PID.
Certainly at that point you can make an adjustment and increase heat input to allow the still to continue. But what is the point of that? Your "automatic" operation becomes yet another thing that has to be baby sat.

PID use is doable of course but it is not optimal.
What is needed is uninterrupted heat input to prevent vapor from falling out of suspension.

Think of a flame. A big flame for an aggressive boil, or a small flame for a soft boil, but always a flame. Or more specifically, always heat input.

cuz (cookingupsomething),

These guys have given you expert advice here. SBB said it well to “forget” what the guy on Youtube told you.

And Larrry summed it up very well with what is happening inside your still when you TRY to run by PiD temperature control. If your PiD has a manual mode, switch to that and adjust the input by power percentage, not temperature.

Also, you may be having some rapid vapor collapse in your product condenser too if the water is too cold and flowing too fast. Ideally, you should have a temperature gradient in the PC with the vapor inlet being warm to hot to the touch with the condensate outlet being cool and close to the temperature of your water supply/water reservoir. The condenser should have a gradual temperature change as you run your hand along its length.

Settle in and read. There are the world’s experts here to help you through your learning curve.

Be safe, responsible, and discrete.
ss

As a note of optimism. You still is working (ish). Some pids can be set yo run on amps only. If yours can do this you should be ok to control the still with power out put only.
Andrew

Excellent advice. We are all trying to help you understand.

Do NOT have a pid running your energy input. Run so many watts based on column size and design.
Then manage reflux. You can use a pid to manage reflux.
You can NOT use a pid to manage energy at the boiler.

another paradigm. Use the pid to manage temp at the TOP of the column. Not the bottom.

I liken it to the reflux control being akin to the brakes and the boiler power akin to the gas pedal.

Running the boiler with a pid is pumping the gas while riding the brakes. It works much better to hold the gas steady and pump the brakes to maintain the output.

Chucker wrote: ↑Wed Apr 12, 2023 12:47 pm Running the boiler with a pid is pumping the gas while riding the brakes

You forgot one thing, your turning the ignition switch off and on at the same time.

I suppose so, especially as I’d guess that an awful lot of pid temp controllers are really working as more of a rapidly cycling relay type of output rather than a true, proportionally modulated current output. I’ve never used one to control an heating element, usually pneumatic controls or motor speed controls.
For my element I just use a simple SCR. About as cheap and easy as it gets.

I see nothing about the specs on your PC.

If your PC is too short, it is possible to overpower it no matter the cooling water temp.
As an example, a six inch PC will not catch all the vapor from a 10,000 watt still!

Cookingupsomething wrote: ↑Sun Apr 02, 2023 7:52 pm So I ran my 12 gallon mash at 177 degrees. Speed was several drips then a stream. Every time right before the stream a small amount of vapor escaped. Water never got above 45 degrees F. Pump is pumping 264 GPH. Condensor is very cold to the touch. Using a heating element controlled by a PID. I backed off the temp and the still shutdown. What simple thing am I messing up. I'm a beginner

Just want to add a couple questions:

Are you sure that it was vapor escaping?
Could it have been smoke?
Do you have any pics of your setup that you can post?
Which recipe are you using and what did you put into the boiler?

Thanks!
-jonny

all good advice. did anyone use the word "huffing" ?

other than the obvious PID / running by temperature problem, 45* cooling water at 264gpm is gonna be collapsing vapour and huffing like a bastard. i could envision some warm breath on a cold morning coming out the end of the pipe.