Is this rust...?

[rgreen2002]

So I got a new still done recently. Had ferrules welded to the new SS barrel. Got it back from the welders and all the welds look great. Did my vinegar run and shut it down. When I took the lid off I had this...

Around the weld sites

It literally looked like rust. I let it dry and it was flaky...

Flaky

Some important info:
I have hard water with a bit of iron
The barrel was still dirty when I got it from the welders.
I washed the barrel with oxy clean (about 1 cup in 2 gallons h20). I rinsed with the power washer (it was on so....)
I used 2 gallons of white vinegar to about 5 gallons of h20
Heat to boiling, and ran for 30 minutes while boiling
The 3 submerged weld sites looked fine. Only the sites in contact with the vapor were affected

The stuff wiped right off

Wiped off

except when it ran down the barrel...

Staind

This will not wipe off and I have not tried anything else.

I am no welder.... but I believe new welds can oxidize somehow. Has anyone seen this before? Any reason I cannot do the etOH run and use the barrel?

[NormandieStill]

You can try to passivate the stainless with citric acid (search the interwebs for details). If it's rust then that would suggest that they failed to flush the inside of the keg with argon before welding that one.

I'd really want to see that keg nice and clean before starting to use it in earnest. You don't know what those stains are so you don't know if you're ok with them in your booze.

[juana_b]

That looks like flux. I'm not ruling out rust, but:
In the first pic, at the bottom of the lip, you can see some solder. And in the last pic, those drips don't look like they came from oxidized steel.

[cob]

"I let it dry and it was flaky..."

If it flakes off to clean stainless, it is not rust.

posted with JB

[juana_b]

Not to derail the topic, but does your name have any reference to:

[rgreen2002]

Not to derail the topic, but does your name have any reference to:

LOL... been here 10 years and that's the First Red Green reference I got. Not a bad run.

We are sadly not related, he's far funnier than I

[higgins]

Barkeepers Friend is a great soft abrasive cleaner for SS if you can reach all the spots. I just use a damp sponge, squirt a little BKF on it, then scrub the SS. Rinse well and dry, let it set for a few weeks and it will passivate itself. I've used it for many years on my brewing equipment.

[rgreen2002]

"I let it dry and it was flaky..."

If it flakes off to clean stainless, it is not rust.

posted with JB

That's my feeling as well. It did just wipe right off. I'm planning on rinsing it out again paying close attention to those welds. Then I will be doing the Etoh cleaning run.

That looks like flux. I'm not ruling out rust, but:
In the first pic, at the bottom of the lip, you can see some solder. And in the last pic, those drips don't look like they came from oxidized steel.

I was wondering about this. Again...not a welder by any stretch but I was wondering if this could happen with TIG welding. If this is flux-related, anything I need to know about getting it clean?

[rgreen2002]

BKF.jpg
Barkeepers Friend is a great soft abrasive cleaner for SS if you can reach all the spots. I just use a damp sponge, squirt a little BKF on it, then scrub the SS. Rinse well and dry, let it set for a few weeks and it will passivate itself. I've used it for many years on my brewing equipment.

Looks good! I'll get me some and hit the weld areas.

[rgreen2002]

You can try to passivate the stainless with citric acid (search the interwebs for details)...

Searching as we speak...!

[HDNB]

you don't use flux in tig welding. thats what the inert gas is for, to protect the puddle. (doubt they went deep tig on a ferrule)

a good citric acid bath will clean it up. if you get a small bit rust popping on stainless you can just use a paste of citric acid for a couple hours and it will passivate it.

i use the crystalline (dry) citric acid crystals for cleaning everything. it's great for mopping the floor even. I try to avoid "chemicals " in the still shack since the dogs walking on the floor...a little lemon juice will pucker them up if they lick their feet, sure is a lot better for them than star san!

also great for dropping PH for a saccrifying enzyme.

[juana_b]

If this is flux-related, anything I need to know about getting it clean?

Dremel with a ss wire wheel(or another ss wool type thing, don't grind ferrous steel into your ss), then more looong cleaning runs to get into crevices that still have hardened flux(long enough to re-hydrate and flush hardened stuff), then passivate(if necessary).
it's hard to tell with the pics, but I'm suspecting that more than one gap-filling method was used due to the first pic showing what seems to be soft solder on the bottom of that lip. May behoove you to inquire what filler methods and/or types of flux were used to weld this.

Sorry, running around a bit today, but this is what makes me question flux:

[Siva283]

If the welder didnt purge the inside with Argon this will happen. You can clean and clean and clean it but it will keep coming back basically till the weld rusts away. Stainless HAS to be purged its a very finnacky metal to weld. I hate it as much as I hate titanium. I hate those worse than tig welding aluminum. I would be asking questions to your welder. Looks like he borked the job.

[squigglefunk]

If the welder didnt purge the inside with Argon this will happen. You can clean and clean and clean it but it will keep coming back basically till the weld rusts away. Stainless HAS to be purged its a very finnacky metal to weld. I hate it as much as I hate titanium. I hate those worse than tig welding aluminum. I would be asking questions to your welder. Looks like he borked the job.

can't say this is my experience, any welds that had rust issues were fine after additional cleaning and passivation

[Siva283]

If the welder didnt purge the inside with Argon this will happen. You can clean and clean and clean it but it will keep coming back basically till the weld rusts away. Stainless HAS to be purged its a very finnacky metal to weld. I hate it as much as I hate titanium. I hate those worse than tig welding aluminum. I would be asking questions to your welder. Looks like he borked the job.

can't say this is my experience, any welds that had rust issues were fine after additional cleaning and passivation

I havent welded Stainless much but in the past the rust would continue as deep as the o2 contamination went. It might not go all the way through but it would be deep enough I would be worried about the weld. Like anything YMMV no 2 welds are alike.
Regaurdless OP payed good money to a welder and it should have been welded correctly. From the stories and the pics that looks like a weld that wasnt back purged

[rgreen2002]

Ok... i talked to the welders. They did purge with argon.... however.....

One of the welders used a carbon steel wire wheel instead of the stainless. Says to clean it with a wire wheel and a tiger paw after that.
If he used carbon steel wont that rust through at some point...? Learning a log about welding this week for sure....!!

[still_stirrin]

Ok... i talked to the welders. They did purge with argon.... however.....

One of the welders used a carbon steel wire wheel instead of the stainless. Says to clean it with a wire wheel and a tiger paw after that.
If he used carbon steel wont that rust through at some point...? Learning a log about welding this week for sure....!!

Yep. You’ve got “cancer”. And as hard as you try, you’ll never get rid of it completely. The best solution would be a “complete excision”. Cut out all the bad metal (carbon steel) and replace it with 304 stainless and TiG weld it in with argon purge inside as well as blanket gas.

To do it properly requires “sanitary welding” and a proper sanitary welder could do it. But it won’t be cheap.

My keg was welded by a sanitary (qualified) welder and he charged me $250USD per hour. The welds are all clean and shiny to this day, so the investment in good work is wise, even though it hurts a little at first.

But your welds will always continue to rust until the “bad material” is removed.

Good luck. I hope you can get it corrected.
ss

[Steve Broady]

Is just cleaning with a steel wheel/brush enough to cause cancer, ss? I get that welding with a carbon steel rod or filler wire would donut, but can just cleaning the finished weld be that detrimental?

[squigglefunk]

Is just cleaning with a steel wheel/brush enough to cause cancer, ss? I get that welding with a carbon steel rod or filler wire would donut, but can just cleaning the finished weld be that detrimental?

no, IMO remove any offending rust using non-ferrous methods and re-passivate

[still_stirrin]

Is just cleaning with a steel wheel/brush enough to cause cancer, ss? I get that welding with a carbon steel rod or filler wire would donut, but can just cleaning the finished weld be that detrimental?

no, IMO remove any offending rust using non-ferrous methods and re-passivate

Wrong. A steel wire wheel will imbed metal into the weld crevices and those will nucleate and soon you’ll see rust “growing”. You should only use stainless steel on stainless. Remember, the hot and acidic environment will catalyze oxidation.
ss

[squigglefunk]

Wrong. A steel wire wheel will imbed metal into the weld crevices and those will nucleate and soon you’ll see rust “growing”. You should only use stainless steel on stainless. Remember, the hot and acidic environment will catalyze oxidation.
ss

so his still is ruined forever now ?

[HDNB]

Wrong. A steel wire wheel will imbed metal into the weld crevices and those will nucleate and soon you’ll see rust “growing”. You should only use stainless steel on stainless. Remember, the hot and acidic environment will catalyze oxidation.
ss

so his still is ruined forever now ?

not necessarily, but after a wire wheel a citric acid treatment is definitely in order. if it was purged and the guy just wheeled it, you just got to get the contamination cleaned. Worked on my SS barrels where the drain valve was welded in, fwiw...but like he said^^^ no two welds are the same.

[squigglefunk]

not necessarily, but after a wire wheel a citric acid treatment is definitely in order. if it was purged and the guy just wheeled it, you just got to get the contamination cleaned.

i agree, I Used a similar proceedure to you for my welds that had rust and it took care of it, and years later they are still fine.

I used Bar Keepers Friend

[rgreen2002]

Is just cleaning with a steel wheel/brush enough to cause cancer, ss? I get that welding with a carbon steel rod or filler wire would donut, but can just cleaning the finished weld be that detrimental?

So I took ss to mean that using the carbon steel for the tig would be like a cancer in that i would never be able to get rid of it... not that I would get cancer from it.

Anywho... just to update the sub. I talked to the welders again and I misunderstood them. They used a carbon steel wheel to clean the welds. It left the area all dirty.

What I did - On the lid, I got a stainless steel wire wheel and blasted the welds clean. Then I did Barkeeper's friend(BKF) and dried. I followed this with the CitriSurf 77 to passivate. Soaked and let sit for about 30 minutes. Then BKF again for the cleaning and rinse with water.

On the stovetop I boiled a little vinegar/water mix and placed the lid on top for about 20 minutes.... results seem good!

Close up of the weld

Looks nice and clean without any issues

See the unclean weld with the "rust"

This looks good to me. I will hit the rest of the barrel and drop my results as I go along. Follow the same procedures as above then I will do the vinegar/etoh cleanings in the barrel.

As always... thanks to all for the ideas and info!!

[rgreen2002]

OK...
Following the procedure above here are the results so far:

Shiny...

… and no drips

Make 'em shine like friggin mirrors!!

I've still got the cleaning runs coming up later so I will probably add one more post or so...

[Oldvine Zin]

Looking Good!!!!

Stay safe
OVZ