All grain question

[utvol]

So I have run probably 5 or 6 all grain mash now. I have done HBB a few times and last night I did a Dumor 6 grain scratch with malter barley.

Every time i have run an all grain my spirit comes out a bit cloudy. I want to say purplish / blue tint but nothing like i have seen people post very blue.

All the HBB runs i have done were stipping runs. last night i ran a lot slower and collected in half pint jars.

When i do a sugar wash it comes out crystal clear no matter if i am doing a spirit run or stripping run.

Is this normal. I am sorry I don't have a photo to post as it was dark last night during my run.

Thanks in advance.

Utvol!

[8Ball]

Stripping runs can and do get cloudy. Spirit runs clean up the low wines and you get a clear spirit if your still is clean and you don’t get too greedy. Don’t know anything about a “purple:blue” tint.

[squigglefunk]

yes, grain will cloud more than sugar or fruit ferments from my experience

[Dougmatt]

So I have run probably 5 or 6 all grain mash now. I have done HBB a few times and last night I did a Dumor 6 grain scratch with malter barley.

Every time i have run an all grain my spirit comes out a bit cloudy. I want to say purplish / blue tint but nothing like i have seen people post very blue.

All the HBB runs i have done were stipping runs. last night i ran a lot slower and collected in half pint jars.

When i do a sugar wash it comes out crystal clear no matter if i am doing a spirit run or stripping run.

Is this normal. I am sorry I don't have a photo to post as it was dark last night during my run.

Thanks in advance.

Utvol!

Are you pot or reflux? Assuming Pot.

Do you have new copper in the still anywhere?

Are you following the strip spirit protocol? And if so is this your first run (strip) or your spirit run?

[utvol]

Are you pot or reflux? Assuming Pot.

Do you have new copper in the still anywhere?

Are you following the strip spirit protocol? And if so is this your first run (strip) or your spirit run?
[/quote]

Yes, Pot still.

No, I am using a column over keg and the column is about 12 years old.

I am not sure what the strip spirit protocol is. I will have to search for this. I have done 5 strip runs oh HBB.

I have not collected enough to do a spirit run yet. I have done spirit runs of UJSSM.

Last night I ran a batch of 6 grain stratch slow. It was the first run but was not a spirit run.

[NormandieStill]

My AG stripping runs tend to end up a little cloudy. Partly because I strip down to around 25%, partly because I sometimes run a ltitle too hot, too early and get some puking. It all clears up nicely during the spirit run ("strip spirit protocol" just means to strip washes, generally fast, until you have enough low wines for a nice slow spirit run).

[utvol]

My AG stripping runs tend to end up a little cloudy. Partly because I strip down to around 25%, partly because I sometimes run a ltitle too hot, too early and get some puking. It all clears up nicely during the spirit run ("strip spirit protocol" just means to strip washes, generally fast, until you have enough low wines for a nice slow spirit run).

Ok then I understand the protocol. Just never heard about it called that. i may start off all my runs a bit hot as i heat up full power until i start streaming then i cut the heat back to make sure my condenser will keep up.

Now that i know how long it takes my still to start producing maybe i will cut the heat back a bit sooner.

I have a 2 x 24 inch column. If my still pukes a bit will it travel up that far? I have never put in more than 12 gallons in my 15.5 gallon keg.

[30xs]

A puke will easily travel that far given the chance. Heat up a molasses wash too fast one time if you want to see how far a puke will travel.

As to your color issue. You stated the still was 12 years old. If this was the first time using after a long set did it get a sacrificial cleaning? What do you use as a condenser? A worm could have had a little moisture laying in it causing internal corrosion. What color was your fermented mash? If I remember correctly that 6 grain had what looked like red corn pieces in it.

A picture or full description of your still will allow for more educated answers.

[utvol]

I did a clean out run with water in vinegar about 5 months ago before i used it again.

I am running a 15.5 gallon keg with a 2 x 24 in riser connected to a 3 foot liebig condenser. Everything is copper.

The fermentation was very milky almost yellow looking as pretty much all my all grains have been. I don't recall any red corn in the dumor.

I have done 5 or 6 sugar runs since i started again after my hiatus. All of them have been crystal clear.

I think the spirit run will clear it up just wondering if any others had similar results.

If the still did puke would there not be more funk in the spirit? I have never thought my still puked but not 100% sure really.

[30xs]

You will know if it pukes. You can hear it starting to gurgle as the foam is coming up the column. Corrected by killing it reducing heat may get you some wash color in the first jar that should clear on the rest of the jars. If left uncorrected, or let go too long, get the mop bucket. What was your FG? A dry ferment is much less likely to puke.

Back to your purple/blue. Is it when looking at it from across the room, or holding a cloudy jar up the the light. I’ve had jars that were cloudy that looking through them at a fluorescent light would almost give a bluish haze. I know it wasn’t from corroded copper. I never did figure out exactly what it was from. Possibly light refraction through the oils.

[utvol]

You will know if it pukes. You can hear it starting to gurgle as the foam is coming up the column. Corrected by killing it reducing heat may get you some wash color in the first jar that should clear on the rest of the jars. If left uncorrected, or let go too long, get the mop bucket. What was your FG? A dry ferment is much less likely to puke.

Back to your purple/blue. Is it when looking at it from across the room, or holding a cloudy jar up the the light. I’ve had jars that were cloudy that looking through them at a fluorescent light would almost give a bluish haze. I know it wasn’t from corroded copper. I never did figure out exactly what it was from. Possibly light refraction through the oils.

Ok then i would say i have never pucked. your description of the cloudy color is spot on. It's not really blue or purple but just gives off a strange color that is not crystal clear like my sugar washes.

I am pretty sure my color will be corrected if i ever get enough product to do a spirit run.

thanks for all the tips!

[PLAYMP]

if i ever get enough product to do a spirit run.

I am kind of wondering here what your yields are like. If you've done 5 or 6 stripping runs and still don't have enough for a spirit run I am wondering a bit about your conversion or whether you're collecting enough of the alcohol off your stripping runs. Are you measuring things like starting/final gravity, iodine testing the mash, and testing the abv off the still?

If you are boiling an unfermented/partially fermented mash that would definitely be more susceptible to puking and a cloudy distillate. For reference 5 or 6 stripping runs with full conversion and then collecting down to 10% abv in a stripping run would easily give me enough for 2 spirit runs generally.

[utvol]

if i ever get enough product to do a spirit run.

I am kind of wondering here what your yields are like. If you've done 5 or 6 stripping runs and still don't have enough for a spirit run I am wondering a bit about your conversion or whether you're collecting enough of the alcohol off your stripping runs. Are you measuring things like starting/final gravity, iodine testing the mash, and testing the abv off the still?

If you are boiling an unfermented/partially fermented mash that would definitely be more susceptible to puking and a cloudy distillate. For reference 5 or 6 stripping runs with full conversion and then collecting down to 10% abv in a stripping run would easily give me enough for 2 spirit runs generally.

Yes, i measure starting and final gravities and i also do iodine tests and test abv off the still.

Well, when i first started the all grain I did the HBB to the letter and i only ended up with about 4 gallons of mash and my SG was low. From memory it was like 1.045 Then I did a double batch and ended up with 7 gallons of wash same sg. Then i tried it using a mash ton and all same SG.

The best starting SG i have done is using my Scratch grain where I did 25 lbs of scratch grain and 5 lbs of malted barley to 10 gallons of water. I ended up with 1.065. I think the higher SG was because of the 3 lbs of grain to 1 gallon of water. The HBB is more like 10.5 lbs of grain to 6 gallons of water.
My ending SG are normally 1. 00 when no more bubbling i squeeze the grains and leave in a carboy for a few days.

I have not been collecting as far down as 10% i have been stopping around 30%. Not exactly sure why but i have read people cutting off at this point.

I have trying to collect enough so I would end up with at least 2 gallons of finished product ready to put in a barrel. I still have 5 more gallons i need to strip. I ran out of ingredients for HBB so I have been making different batches.

So i have a lot of washes that I have stiped but just not enough of one to do a spirit run on but just not enough of the same one. If that makes any sense.

At this point i think i am just rambling.

[PLAYMP]

Got it, nope sounds like you've got the right idea. I strip to 10% or even less just because I find the final product settles in the 30%-40% abv range and saves me from adding any water for my spirt run but thats it.

[OtisT]

Utvol,
The blue tint you are seeing in your low wines may be from too much nitrogen in your ferment. Search for “blue buggers” to see some old posts with pics.

Are you using a lot of DAP or some such nitrogen rich nutrient? If so, consider backing off on it a little. That blue stuff does clean up with a spirit run.

W/o a pic it is hard to know. As said above, oily low wines have a bit of blue tint to them.

Otis

[OtisT]

…..
I have not been collecting as far down as 10% i have been stopping around 30%. Not exactly sure why but i have read people cutting off at this point.

I’ve seen a lot of folks confused by that number, specifically what that number actually represents. Lots of posts where people are not being specific, and some where the poster is specific but just wrong.

The advice is to strip until the average ABV of all the lows wines you have collected are at or near 30%. Easy to do if you collect everything into one container because you can just float your ABV meter in there during the run and watch it slowly drop until it reaches 30%.

The ABV of your low wines coming off of the spout will be about 10% by the time the entire collection of low wines is around 30%. So if you are for some strange reason collecting in many small jars or perhaps using a parrot, you would stop when the last jar (or parrot reading) is around 10%. I think this is where folks get that 10% ABV number from, but they misunderstand or miscommunicate what they are specifically referring to.

As a sanity check you can expect to collect about 1/3 of your total starting boiler volume as low wines when you reach the end of a strip run. Example: 12 gallons in the boiler, Collect 4 gallons of low wines.

[NormandieStill]

I have not been collecting as far down as 10% i have been stopping around 30%. Not exactly sure why but i have read people cutting off at this point.

So there are two ways of talking about stripping runs. One is ABV in the pot, the other is ABV off the spout. If your still has a parrot, or you're collecting in small jars even on stripping runs, you'll probably be thinking about the latter. If you don't have a parrot and just have a big pot with your alcometer in it, you'll probably be thinking about the former.

I don't have a parrot, and I do have a tiny alcometer. I just collect stripping runs into a large stainless pot until I get down to about 25% (for AG) or 30-35% (for neutral). The goal being to get (or leave behind) the flavours.

[utvol]

…..
I have not been collecting as far down as 10% i have been stopping around 30%. Not exactly sure why but i have read people cutting off at this point.

I’ve seen a lot of folks confused by that number, specifically what that number actually represents. Lots of posts where people are not being specific, and some where the poster is specific but just wrong.

The advice is to strip until the average ABV of all the lows wines you have collect are at or near 30%. Easy to do if you collect everything into one container because you can just float your ABV meter in there during the run and watch it slowly drop until it reaches 30%.

The ABV of your low wines coming off of the spout will be about 10% by the time the entire collection of low wines is around 30%. So if you are for some strange reason collecting in many small jars or perhaps using a parrot, you would stop when the last jar (or parrot reading) is around 10%. I think this is where folks get that 10% ABV number from, but they misunderstand or miscommunicate what they are specifically referring to.

As a sanity check you can expect to collect about 1/3 of your total starting boiler volume as low wines when you reach the end of a strip run. Example: 12 gallons in the boiler, Collect 4 gallons of low wines.

thank you otis! this is the best explanation i have read about this and I did not understand the entire concept.

[Bradster68]

+1 Otist. I was getting carried away with the DAP when I first started out. I was worried about things working out and thought what could a little extra hurt. I had quite a few sugar washes with the blue tint. Now it's 1/4 teaspoon per 5 gallon for me and never had an issue since. Just throwing it out there for ya