Plates One and Done vs. Pot Strip Spirit

[werkkrew]

I have been searching and reading about this and I am having trouble coming to a conclusion of which way is generally preferred - I get the feeling it might be one of those divisive topics that have people firmly on both sides of the debate.

I have a modular still that I can run as a VM reflux column, a plated still with up to 4 plates, or as a regular pot still. Since investing in the plates wasn't cheap I have been generally running "one and done" with 4 plates on all of my washes since I got it - a few AG whiskies and a couple rums. Prior to investing in my new modular setup all I had was a little 3 gallon pot still so stripping / spirit is what I had gotten used to and being able to run a one and done on plates saves so much time. As far as my memory goes, the white spirit from the pot vs the plated setup when I am tasting to make my blends from cuts are pretty similar, but I haven't ever done a direct side by side.

I am currently fermenting a batch of SCD's CROW Bourbon and in his recipe thread he seems to highly suggest that doing a strip/spirit with a pot still is his preferred method. I am planning to do it this way since it's his recipe, who am I to argue?

So my question is effectively, "When are plates best employed?" - is this a controversial topic?

If most people seem to think using a regular pot still for flavored spirits is best, and a full reflux still is what you need to produce a neutral, then what situations is best for plates? Is it simply a matter of preference? I'd hate to find out that the money I put into my plated column was essentially a waste.

The batches I have made with my 4 plates setup seem to have plenty of flavor, but admittedly I haven't really sampled much of what I made since it's been aging. The white spirit tasted as I expected though (from memory).

Thoughts?

[higgins]

This is a great topic, werkkrew. I wondered the same thing.

I don't have enough experience with my flute to contribute, but maybe in a few months I will.

All my previous 20 batches of whiskies/rums/brandies have been done using a pot still with stripping and spirit runs. I just recently finished building my flute and have run it 3 times now to learn how to operate it. I ran the same wash each time by saving the stillage, adding the distillate back to it, then re-running.

My 3rd run on the flute was yesterday, and it went pretty smoothly. I'll do cuts today or tomorrow and evaluate the keep. I can always combine and rerun if I don't like the result. A quick on the fly evaluation makes me think that my hearts cut is a bit bigger than with a pot still (about the same volume, but 15-20% higher ABV).

So during my run yesterday I decided that with my next bourbon I will split the batch in two, do a pot still strip/spirit on one half, then a one and done on the flute with the other half for comparison. This is going to go slowly over the next few months, and I'll probably start a new thread.

[8Ball]

My bet is that the pot stripped & spirit bourbon will win in the end.

[tjsc5f]

They will both give different results, which is "better" will come down to personal preference. You'll have to try both and see which you prefer.

[werkkrew]

So during my run yesterday I decided that with my next bourbon I will split the batch in two, do a pot still strip/spirit on one half, then a one and done on the flute with the other half for comparison. This is going to go slowly over the next few months, and I'll probably start a new thread.

This is a great idea, I look forward to seeing how it works out.

They will both give different results, which is "better" will come down to personal preference. You'll have to try both and see which you prefer.

That's kind of what I figured, I just wasn't sure if there is a consensus of when using plates is best. For example, in a very "grain forward" recipe like the SCD's CROW Bourbon maybe pot still is best because you really want it to have a strong flavor. But then if you were making a single-malt scotch or irish style whiskey which is generally a gentler more refined spirit you'd be better off using plates.

Is there any conventional wisdom about when to employ them or is it really just down to personal preference and that's the end of it? Suppose I have some more experimenting to do...

[Steve Broady]

I’ve been wondering the same thing, so I’ll be following this with interest. So far, all I’ve done is pot strip & spirit, but I hav Sparta to build 4 plates if I can ever find the time. I know there popular, but I haven’t seen and great consensus about what there best suited to making.

[Deplorable]

In the last few months, I have found myself contemplating a trip down the plated rabbit hole, but I'm conflicted in that I am very satisfied with my spirits run 2X on a pot still. It seems like every time I wander into one of these threads the end result is that folks who run platers say that the product is better off the plates if you run LWs rather than wash.
My cuts off my pot still usually get me within 5 to 10% of my target aging ABV, so I can't justify the expenditure of building plated column.
Besides the cool factor, I can't see the point.

[Stonecutter]

I’ve had great luck running one and done Sugar wash through my 4 plater. I’ve got a gumball ready for it’s pass through the “flute”; excited to see what kind of flavor profile it kicks out. I’ve read that a rather popular way to run a plater is to do a 1.5 run as it’s been claimed that the higher ABV makes running a plated column “easier”. I’m a complete novice though. Just spitting out what I’ve read from others

[werkkrew]

Besides the cool factor, I can't see the point.

Yeah, I'm hoping I didn't waste my money because I certainly don't care about the "cool factor" - I will say doing a one and done from a wash vs. stripping run to low wines saves a lot of time (and electricity) - I just can't say with any certainty that the time savings is worth it on the product end. I suppose I'll have to do some testing myself to see.

[LordL]

See each plate as a distillation. Strip + sprit equals roughly two plates.

This is rough. It differs on factors as power input, cooling, surely vaporspeed, size of the stills etc.

But to me, four plates sounds like you are going to get a quite clean and high abv (around 90% mark) spirit.

The plates version are going to taste less and the heads and tails are going to be more compressed, taste stronger.

[Setsumi]

I run flutes. One has procap style caps other perfs, 5 plates each self buid old school. I only do maize meal with enzymes and or lately yellow lable. I do 2 strips and then a spirit run that I usually top off with beer. When I built my first flute I did one and done runs but once I invested the time for (the first) strips I dont run out of drinking stock any more.

I have to add, I have 4lt of "clean" tails that I add a cup or 2 to my final age stock for depth. And it is easy to keep the 4lt jug topped off with a cup or 2 from a run. Just be careful around the bitter/wet dog.

That said, I have a friend with a pot and thumper. His spririt runs on low wines is very very good and I could easily live with such a rig.

[Bolverk]

I've given up on the short column (1 or 2 plates) for one and done runs... my opinion, a strip/spirit run is absolutely worth the effort if flavor is your goal.

At this point the only way I'd change my setup is to add thumper/retorts.

[Deplorable]

Besides the cool factor, I can't see the point.

Yeah, I'm hoping I didn't waste my money because I certainly don't care about the "cool factor" - I will say doing a one and done from a wash vs. stripping run to low wines saves a lot of time (and electricity) - I just can't say with any certainty that the time savings is worth it on the product end. I suppose I'll have to do some testing myself to see.

I can honestly say that the increase power consumption I have experienced running my still has been pretty insignificant when I look at my power bill.
If a plater could reduce the power consumption by half doing single runs, using the cost savings alone as a justification I couldn't justify the upfront cost over the few dollars it would save me.
My energy cost breaks down to $0.12/KWh (0.116951 cents to be exact). If you live somewhere that energy costs are significantly higher, then maybe you can justify it on cost only.

[PLAYMP]

I can honestly say that the increase power consumption I have experienced running my still has been pretty insignificant when I look at my power bill.
If a plater could reduce the power consumption by half doing single runs, using the cost savings alone as a justification I couldn't justify the upfront cost over the few dollars it would save me.
My energy cost breaks down to $0.12/KWh (0.116951 cents to be exact). If you live somewhere that energy costs are significantly higher, then maybe you can justify it on cost only.

I have gone far out of my way to run my still at off-peak hours and spent hundreds of dollars on re-circulating cooling solutions that I didn't even end up being happy with before I actually looked how much electricity and water costs me. It really is pennies.

[Deplorable]

I can honestly say that the increase power consumption I have experienced running my still has been pretty insignificant when I look at my power bill.
If a plater could reduce the power consumption by half doing single runs, using the cost savings alone as a justification I couldn't justify the upfront cost over the few dollars it would save me.
My energy cost breaks down to $0.12/KWh (0.116951 cents to be exact). If you live somewhere that energy costs are significantly higher, then maybe you can justify it on cost only.

I have gone far out of my way to run my still at off-peak hours and spent hundreds of dollars on re-circulating cooling solutions that I didn't even end up being happy with before I actually looked how much electricity and water costs me. It really is pennies.

Yup
I can see why some folks need to go to all the trouble, but for me, its just not worth the efforts and cost expenditures.
One time I ran my shotgun cooling water into a 32 gallon Brute while stripping 20 gallons of wash. I didnt even use 30 gallons of water for the two runs. All I did was make the garage humid as hell.

[werkkrew]

Yeah, I think I pay about 11c per kWh but my still has a 6500w element so it adds up, still a lot cheaper than gas. As for water I have often thought about building a closed-loop cooling setup simply in the interest of saving water because I was always taught not to waste water. That said water is far too cheap and plentiful where I live to bother with the time and expense associated with doing a closed loop.

[Twisted Brick]

Great inquiry, werkkrew. There's gotta be a hidden layer of members wrestling with this question.

Running a double-distilled pot like the ancient distillers still do makes for a mighty fine whiskey. With no place to hide, pot distilling leads us to develop the compulsory skills of mashing and fermenting. The volumes that commercial whiskey guys produce don't apply to us at the hobby scale, and IMO, running an optimized column might just steal some of the hand-crafted magic we practice with our simple pots.

I have a good length of 4" copper that's been nagging at me for years to build a 2-3 plater for whiskey and have sat on the fence for so long there's a dip in the fence where my sorry ass sits. So each time I finally commit only to flake, I remember the chart below. It may be an older chart, because many of today's whiskey articles quote 60-75% as the percentage a barrel represents to an expression's final flavor, meaning that the single impact of distillation is even less.

[werkkrew]

Great inquiry, werkkrew. There's gotta be a hidden layer of members wrestling with this question.

Running a double-distilled pot like the ancient distillers still do makes for a mighty fine whiskey. With no place to hide, pot distilling leads us to develop the compulsory skills of mashing and fermenting. The volumes that commercial whiskey guys produce don't apply to us at the hobby scale, and IMO, running an optimized column might just steal some of the hand-crafted magic we practice with our simple pots.

I have a good length of 4" copper that's been nagging at me for years to build a 2-3 plater for whiskey and have sat on the fence for so long there's a dip in the fence where my sorry ass sits. So each time I finally commit only to flake, I remember the chart below. It may be an older chart, because many of today's whiskey articles quote 60-75% as the percentage a barrel represents to an expression's final flavor, meaning that the single impact of distillation is even less.

Appreciate the reply and I'm glad I was able to ask a potentially novel question that will lead to valuable discussion instead of something that has already been discussed as nauseam.

As I sit here on memorial day by the pool I am sipping some SBB Black strap Rum that was aged 8 months on used bourbon staves and distilled on my 4 plate setup and it's mighty good. So I can at least say that plates certainly make a quality product. Would it have been better from a pot? Guess I'll have to make some that way and find out.

[BrewinBrian44]

I do one and done runs on the plated column almost exclusively. You’ll get tons of flavor for sure. I’ve also ran once distilled low wines on the plates and find the flavor is a bit thinner, but not bad.

I’ve also had great results doing 1.5 runs.

The only thing I’ve had trouble with was crow bourbon one and done with plates. There was a strong flavor from the rye that was highly concentrated and made it difficult to run my still by monitoring the flavor. I actually called it quits and just stripped it then did a pot still spirit run at a later date.

[Swedish Pride]

The main reason I made a plater was to get one and done runs in.

An unexpected benefit was that the cuts vere much easier to do, you get a cleaner crisper spirit where the cuts are more distinct.

I find the spirit age out quicker and I have enjoyed my produce more since running a plater.

In saying that, the spirit may be a bit too clean, I struggle to get a huge hit of flavor, sure the single malt flavor is there but almost in a polite background kind of way.
It may be due to how i run it through.

All said, i still run the plater for the above stated benifits

[Sporacle]

I was going to say the exact same thing Swedish. It sums up exactly why I run my 4 plater, I'm sure I will go back to a pot for some stuff but as a workhorse my flute is doing a great job.

[Yummyrum]

I originally made my flute because it looked cool and I like making things .
I certainly found that it made cuts easier due to the separation it provides.

I found one and done not so good and mostly did 1.5 + fients .
Product aged quick.But…… I always felt it was missing balls .
I have gone back to the Pot and Thumper and the Flute has stood lonely in the corner for the last few years .

I must say I am now much better at cuts and running the Pot than I was when I first started out .
I think part of the reason I wanted a Flute , apart from the bling , was that I was hoping there was going to be a better product than I was making with my Pot at the time

[NZChris]

Given the same sized boiler, it takes more sets of cuts to make the same quantity of end product with a plater, plus you are choosing the cut from a much smaller volume of spirit. When I do a spirit run in my pot, it's charged with the product of three or four stripping runs worth of wash.

If you were trying to fill a large barrel in a hurry to get it ageing, it might seem more of a chore with a plater, than with the same sized pot.

As for flavor, the skill of the operator and the method used for choosing cuts makes a big difference regardless of what still head is being used. You can put too much, or not enough, flavor into the feints collection with any still head.

[rubberduck71]

The timing of this thread is very clandestine for my buddy & me!

He just got a Brewhaus 6x4" plater. It's a very sexy rig. And this past Sat was the first go at a one-and-done for either of us. We used 3 plates & each run (~12 gal in a 15 gal boiler) took just 4 hrs power on to finish. What I found is that your hearts cut is more condensed (fewer jars) but at a higher ABV. There may be some offset to flavor with that higher ABV. No data on that yet.

I'm waiting for 4 buckets of agave/sugar wash to finish fermenting so I can have a 2nd crack at my double thumper set up. I did an LME (barley & wheat) a couple weekends ago, so WAYYYY too young to make any concrete determinations, but just earlier today & went down & popped the lids to take a quick SS straw sample. The single thumper batch tastes young (shocker!), but the double thumper batch tastes much more "mature" (albeit it needs at least another 6 months on the oak spiral).

I was joking with my brewing bud that we need to have a contest with same washes, which is better: double thumper vs 3 plater one-and-done.

[werkkrew]

I was joking with my brewing bud that we need to have a contest with same washes, which is better: double thumper vs 3 plater one-and-done.

Should do it!

[Saltbush Bill]

The short answer is that its personal preference.
Ive been to gatherings where people have tested pot V plate drinks side by side, some of the old school pot stillers say the spirit from a plater is "thin" and lacks flavour, others seem more than happy with it. Simple fact is that one type smears more than the other.
A plater will separate the fractions much more cleanly, if you want a dirtier product you can always add back more jars from either end of the run.
The vast majority of plate owners on the forums that I frequent practice one and done runs......that is one of the main attractions, no more stripping runs needed.
Having said that , I have often run a mix of low wines and wash, there is a simple reason for that.
My first plated column was an old school "Plate Tree" build, the 4 inch column wasn't perfectly round which in turn meant that the plates didn't seal perfectly within the column.
Through trial and error I found that the still ran a lot more smoothly and better using a higher ABV boiler charge.
In general IMO you will always get more flavour from a plated still by running straight wash.
My new 6 inch columns plates are well sealed within the column and it works perfectly well using a one and done.
There is also more than one way to use a plated column if you do choose to run low wines or mixes of wash and low wines.
Using the deflegmator to slowly milk off fores and heads , then cutting all reflux to make the column act as a pot still , then once tails show adding reflux again to hold tails back is one option that Ive used occasionally, again its all personal choice.

[shadylane]

Might as well say my 2 cents worth.

The bad side of one run and done, is having a mash boiled for hours during a reflux run.
Neither potstilled nor continuous distillation has this problem.
I'm a firm believer in stripping runs.
A very important tails cut is made when the boiler is shut off and drained.

[Bolverk]

I was joking with my brewing bud that we need to have a contest with same washes, which is better: double thumper vs 3 plater one-and-done.

Should do it!

I'd be interested in the results of this too

100% pot + (3×85%) plates = 3.55 distillations
Vs
100% pot + (2×50%) thumpers = 2 distillations

My guess is that the thumpers would taste better.
Hell even 2 plates vs the 2 thumpers, I'd bet the thumpers taste better

[EricTheRed]

Great inquiry, werkkrew. There's gotta be a hidden layer of members wrestling with this question.

Running a double-distilled pot like the ancient distillers still do makes for a mighty fine whiskey. With no place to hide, pot distilling leads us to develop the compulsory skills of mashing and fermenting. The volumes that commercial whiskey guys produce don't apply to us at the hobby scale, and IMO, running an optimized column might just steal some of the hand-crafted magic we practice with our simple pots.

I have a good length of 4" copper that's been nagging at me for years to build a 2-3 plater for whiskey and have sat on the fence for so long there's a dip in the fence where my sorry ass sits. So each time I finally commit only to flake, I remember the chart below. It may be an older chart, because many of today's whiskey articles quote 60-75% as the percentage a barrel represents to an expression's final flavor, meaning that the single impact of distillation is even less.

I'm one of those who think about this often. Had an offer to purchase a 2" 4 bubble glass column for 50% off. I hummed and haaad and talked myself out of it.
Sure - would be cool to watch

But... would it actually make a better spirit? Dunno

[Saltbush Bill]

I think you would regret buying a 2 inch, there is a reason that most sold or built are 4 inch.