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This bizarre idea occurred whilst I was sipping on some homemade stuff tonight:

I've made plenty of whiskey & NGS with YLAY. My question is, what if you got together the grain bill for a beer, dosed it with YLAY, then AFTER fermentation did a boil with hops for a beer?

A quick google search did not yield anything in this direction.

I've brewed a few beers (much fewer than spirits), and I know you boil the wort with hops after starch conversion, but prior to fermentation.

Any veteran beer brewers have some insights on this idea? I could just be pissing in the wind...

Most of this is triggered by a Labatts clone partial mash kit I did last week with my brother & I got crappy conversion, forcing me to add in some DME to get >1.040 SG.

Appreciate any & all feedback!

Duck

I think if you boiled it after fermentation you would end up with non alcoholic beer.


Edited to add that I think all your work with YLAY, has made you a tad lax in your mashing protocol and you paid the price in your beer mash conversion.

I think for beer, it would be gross and you'd lose yer alcohol

You may end up with a very dry beer. If you do it boil the hops with a very small portion of the beer otherwise you will not have alchohol in the beer.

It would be like boiling a beer regardless of what fermented it. You'd be better off using enzymes but if you're doing a partial mash, adding a little extra DME to compensate wont change the flavor TOO much. The grains are mostly for flavor or head retention, which you probably got just by steeping them.
But if that yeast converts the starch fast enough at mash temps before fermenting, then maybe it would work just like enzymes, but probably a waste of good yeast.

Keep in mind a beer does not ferment fully dry. Not sure what YLAY would do to what normally would be non-fermentable sugars.

No, it's not suitable for a beer.... beer with poor aroma, very dry, too much acidity..

rubberduck71 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 6:39 pm This bizarre idea occurred whilst I was sipping on some homemade stuff tonight:

I think we found one thing for sure , its a bizarre idea.... ........maybe an idea best left to melt into the background.
Dont feel bad Ducky ....we all do it once in a while .

You can pre-boil the hops in water that you are going to use, plus you can dry hop later.

You can use the yellow label as a high temp enzyme. The alpha and gluco will handle 90c. Mash boil add hops then yeast of choice.

bluc wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 1:09 am You can use the yellow label as a high temp enzyme. The alpha and gluco will handle 90c. Mash boil add hops then yeast of choice.

Wow really?
Normal powdered enzymes like low temps.
Even the liquid high temp enzymes i know of the gluco needs to remain under 70c.

You don't happen to have a link to a fact sheet with that info?

bluc wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 1:09 am You can use the yellow label as a high temp enzyme. The alpha and gluco will handle 90c. Mash boil add hops then yeast of choice.

maybe 90F, according to their site,ferment between 28-36C (82-97F)

howie wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 4:50 am

bluc wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 1:09 am You can use the yellow label as a high temp enzyme. The alpha and gluco will handle 90c. Mash boil add hops then yeast of choice.

maybe 90F, according to their site,ferment between 28-36C (82-97F)

Here’s a good reference to the different ways to use YLAY https://enzymeking.com.au/pages/angel-y ... structions

As bluc mentioned, the high temp enzymes in the mix can be used up to 90°C, the low temp Rhizopus denatures at 60°C.

As for making beer, you could use an old technique of adding hops to the mash and not boil, but TBH I think it would would be a shocker.

Thanks Bluc and GrumbleStill, some handy information there.

Saltbush Bill wrote: ↑Thu Jun 15, 2023 5:02 am

rubberduck71 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 6:39 pm This bizarre idea occurred whilst I was sipping on some homemade stuff tonight:

I think we found one thing for sure , its a bizarre idea.... ........maybe an idea best left to melt into the background.
Dont feel bad Ducky ....we all do it once in a while .

I've never done something wrong or bizarre.
Learning experience is a better term.

Never done it, but If I was using Angel Yellow for beer.
Maybe add hops to boiling water, cool then mix into the angel yeast ferment.
In other words, separate the process of hop oil extraction and fermentation.

Ahhh well. If nothing else, I inspired some good conversation & idea exchange!

Angel yeast can be used as a regular high temperature enzyme (Denatures at 90C) as it contains a large percentage of Alpha Amylase and Gluco Amylase. However when used this way, the Rhizopus will be denatured at temperatures above 60C and the low temperature conversion feature will be lost. Use distillers yeast as normal as the yeast in the enzyme mix will also be denatured. Dosage – 50g per 10kg

So high temp enzyme only...

Whenever I read these interesting headlines, I always hope to find an experiment result, not a "what if" theoretical pondering session. Oh well. Maybe next time.

I'd think that using straight koji to do the conversion then boiling prior to fermentation would be the path if you wanted to experiment with this.

YLAY uses Rhizopus Oryzae while Koji is an Aspergillus Oryzae - Both cultured enzymes that convert starches into sugars and/or proteins into amino's. Aspergillus Oryzae is used in sake and rice wine production but typically also in tandem with yeast to ferment in parallel as it's converted..

Some food for thought

Cheers,
jonny

jonnys_spirit wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 1:06 pm I'd think that using straight koji to do the conversion then boiling prior to fermentation would be the path if you wanted to experiment with this.

One might even be able to prematurely rack the bulk of fermented wash off the yeast/lees at a predetermined FG in order to retain some sweetness and keep it from going dry. Yeast profile would be anyone's guess, but best left to the more adventurous types.

i dont care for the taste of it personally, I blame it on the aspergillus