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My first time filling a barrel.

I’ve been collecting rum all year and refining my recipe, all my batches have been slightly different but the last three I’ve settled on something I like. Three gallons of hot dunder, I start the batch as soon as I’m done distilling. I Add a gallon of molasses and 16 pounds of morena cane sugar, add water to 13 gallons and drain into a 15 gallon gallon beer keg. I use the yeast cake off the last ferment to start the new batch. Run the stripping run, then let that sit on a quart of infected dunder over night and do the spirit run the next day.

So I got my 5 gallon barrel very used and in really bad shape from a distillery. Took it apart and scraped the old char out by hand, so not down into the wood, just took the black off. Re torched it to about a 3, and finally got it to stop leaking after about a month of soaking, steaming and beating it with a hammer. I also read an interesting post where some guys had waxed the staves of their five gallon barrels to reduce losses. So I did that. Don’t yell at me . It’s all about experimenting. I left the heads un waxed. So there should still be plenty of area for air exchange. And if not, I am aware of the risk/mistake I may have made here.

So I finally have my 5 gallons of rum blended and sitting in two 3 gallon carboys at 55%. The plan is to move the barrel into the part of my shop that’s not completely un climate controlled, but does get some 10 to 15 degree temp swings through the summer. It’s the room my boiler is in, I generally don’t AC it, but it’s attached to AC rooms so it swings but not crazy.

Ok so, any last minute advice or warnings or anything before I pull the trigger here in about 12 hours? Also, making this post so I can update my progress as it ages.

You got it going. Come baclk in a year and tell us how it worked. I don’t have anything to add, as if it mattered aynyway.
ss

My only comment/concern is that I think your barrel proof is a bit low. My understanding is that most rums are aged around 65%... I could be wrong, but I believe I've read this from a few different sources.

After reading a variety of research documents, I have various rums aging between 55% and 68%, on various toasts and have no warnings for you except to watch out for excessive Angel's Share because of the small barrel.

I age mine in glass with loose bungs, so have very nice product that has been aged for up to ten years without the large losses than you can expect to have from a small barrel in the same time frame.

Bolverk wrote: ↑Mon Jun 26, 2023 8:49 pm My only comment/concern is that I think your barrel proof is a bit low. My understanding is that most rums are aged around 65%... I could be wrong, but I believe I've read this from a few different sources.

I have definitely seen people do higher but hadn’t seen anything specifically negative about a little lower. I was thinking about trying to extract less tannin and oak. I guess that’s less of an issue with heavily used barrels though. Hopefully it works out. I’m keeping pretty decent notes, so if I do have anything off I can adjust for the future. Thanks for pointing out the proof issue.

still_stirrin wrote: ↑Mon Jun 26, 2023 8:42 pm You got it going. Come baclk in a year and tell us how it worked. I don’t have anything to add, as if it mattered aynyway.
ss

I definitely will, I’m planning on leaving it alone for a couple months before I check the levels, and take a sample for taste and what not at 6 months to see how bad it is

NZChris wrote: ↑Mon Jun 26, 2023 10:29 pm After reading a variety of research documents, I have various rums aging between 55% and 68%, on various toasts and have no warnings for you except to watch out for excessive Angel's Share because of the small barrel.

I age mine in glass with loose bungs, so have very nice product that has been aged for up to ten years without the large losses than you can expect to have from a small barrel in the same time frame.

I’ve built some Badmo style barrels for whiskey but they only have 6 months on them, and I’ve recently gotten some of these swing top gallon jars that I’ve replaced the silicone seal with a doubled up paper towel, it seems to be working really well. I just got obsessed with this potentially bad idea of a 5 gallon barrel. I’m hoping waxing the side staves will cut down on losses and let me age for a lot longer in the barrel. I’m gonna weigh the barrel to track losses, or at least that’s the plan. I appreciate the input on the “barrel proof”. How do you find your 55s do compared to your higher percentages?

MrMeatSweats wrote: ↑Mon Jun 26, 2023 10:48 pm How do you find your 55s do compared to your higher percentages?

Good question, I have no idea. I'll try to remember to take notes next time I come across it when doing a blending session. If it was exactly 55.0%, a search of my notes would have found it, but it didn't.

If you are hoping for advice for emulating 12 year old rum in time for you and your mates to enjoy next Xmas, you are out of luck.

still_stirrin wrote: ↑Mon Jun 26, 2023 8:42 pm You got it going. Come baclk in a year and tell us how it worked. I don’t have anything to add, as if it mattered aynyway.
ss

I think your being modest SS. How do you expect to make it to 20000 (post) if you don't add something?

MrMeatSweats said,
'I’m hoping waxing the side staves will cut down on losses and let me age for a lot longer in the barrel.'

Hi,
It seems to me that this would negate the very reason for having a wooden barrel.
That is the interaction of the air with the spirit, as well as with the wood.

It would be a lot less trouble to just store the spirit in a jar with a bit of oak.
The fairies do not work their magic unless they are given their share.

Geoff

NZChris wrote: ↑Mon Jun 26, 2023 11:29 pm
If you are hoping for advice for emulating 12 year old rum in time for you and your mates to enjoy next Xmas, you are out of luck.

Yeah, definitely not asking how to make a 12 year rum in 6 months. Thanks though.

The Baker wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2023 4:27 am MrMeatSweats said,
'I’m hoping waxing the side staves will cut down on losses and let me age for a lot longer in the barrel.'

Hi,
It seems to me that this would negate the very reason for having a wooden barrel.
That is the interaction of the air with the spirit, as well as with the wood.

It would be a lot less trouble to just store the spirit in a jar with a bit of oak.
The fairies do not work their magic unless they are given their share.

Geoff

I do agree completely, or at least totally understand what you are saying. My position for making the decision to try this though is based off of surface area contact. Like the surface area calculation for a Badmo style barrel. We reckon that that’s about the same amount of oak that 6 liters of spirit would come in contact with in a large barrel. So same thing here, figure out the amount of surface area of wood 5 gallons would actually come into contact with in a large barrel, and the number is pretty close to the area of the barrel heads and what’s under the hoops. Now granted, Badmo is for total oak contact, and I’m using the same thing for wood that’s able to breathe. So not the same thing, I admit. But I see the number one complaints with these barrels are high losses and high oak. My barrel has had the crap used out of it, so I’m hoping to age in it for two years or more, which is a long time for a 5 gallon. So if I can reduce the amount of losses over that time, that seems better. I’m not saying I’m right here, I’m just explaining my thinking on doing what I did. Regardless, it’s done, so we are gonna find out. I welcome any counter points to anything I said here. I’m just experimenting and learning.

Seems your responses are thoughtful enough that no matter what happens you're going to enhance your IQ.
Good luck.

MrMeatSweats wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2023 7:42 am

I do agree completely, or at least totally understand what you are saying. My position for making the decision to try this though is based off of surface area contact. Like the surface area calculation for a Badmo style barrel. We reckon that that’s about the same amount of oak that 6 liters of spirit would come in contact with in a large barrel. So same thing here, figure out the amount of surface area of wood 5 gallons would actually come into contact with in a large barrel, and the number is pretty close to the area of the barrel heads and what’s under the hoops. Now granted, Badmo is for total oak contact, and I’m using the same thing for wood that’s able to breathe. So not the same thing, I admit. But I see the number one complaints with these barrels are high losses and high oak. My barrel has had the crap used out of it, so I’m hoping to age in it for two years or more, which is a long time for a 5 gallon. So if I can reduce the amount of losses over that time, that seems better. I’m not saying I’m right here, I’m just explaining my thinking on doing what I did. Regardless, it’s done, so we are gonna find out. I welcome any counter points to anything I said here. I’m just experimenting and learning.

Your logic makes perfect sense to me. The only thing was the rechar, you might have tried only doing a part of the barrel rather than the entire thing.

With the advent of craft distilling there are more used 5 gallon barrels out on the market. If there are enough sugars left after a use or two, waxing and selective recharring may be a way to simulate the characteristics of a larger barrel. Thank you for experimenting and reporting.

LWTCS wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2023 8:35 am Seems your responses are thoughtful enough that no matter what happens you're going to enhance your IQ.
Good luck.

Thanks, I will definitely learn something . My biggest regret I think is going to be that the parts that make up the whole are all slightly different. So it’s not even remotely repeatable. From here out I’m just playing with barrel aging. I did 5 batches to get this, and had no dunder at first so the first batch was actually made with an all grain whiskey back set. Which turned out pretty awesome, but that was 30% of my first recipe, and the rest of the whiskey backset is what I started my 6 gallon infected dunder pit with. It’s since been cycled out with rum dunder, I pour off a few gallons and add a few gallons every time I distill a batch, feeding it kind of like a sourdough starter. I triple distilled the first few batches down to 10 liters because I read about adding infected dunder to the higher proof alcohol. So I let it set a few days on it and did that, the last couple of batches got double the amount of infected dunder for less time and only double distilled. Anyway, my process has been all over the place as I’ve tried different things around basically the same recipe. I thought rum would be easy, but I’ve found it to be a lot more complex and fun to mess with than whiskey so far.

Got her all filled up. I’m about a liter or so short. All that I read online about barrels being sized by their displacement and not by what they actually hold is a bunch of BS in this case . I added 20.5 liters to it and was still pretty short. I grabbed a liter I’d been holding back from my first ever batch of rum last year and poured it in just to top it up. Hated to do that as it was both delicious and only 50%. Still looks about a liter short but an air pocket is good. I’m going to hold back a liter of high test hearts from the batch I distill here in about a month for topping off the immediate losses and bringing the proof back up to 110 or a little higher.

5 month update. I added two liters to it in August to make up for initial losses and the barrel wasn’t 100% full any way. Now it looks like it’s back to about that level again. I think that’s just where it wants to be. It smells amazing, nice color coming in, and distinct oak flavor, but not over powering. I’m hoping I can age it a good long while. I’ll check again in a few months on the oak situation. My main concern is over oaking it.

I definitely don’t need how ever many gallons of rum is gonna be left in there. I’m thinking that once it gets good, I’ll take half of it and fill it back up. Maybe see how long I can keep it going like that. A poor man’s solera

MrMeatSweats wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 8:39 pm... My main concern is over oaking it.

That won’t happen.

You’d have to age it 5+ years to get even close to a level that might be over-whelming. But with a rum, 24 to 30 months is quite nice. It’ll pick up some nice caramel and toffee notes. It’ll also pick up a great color: dark brown with a noticeable crimson color when held into the light. Time in a cask (for a rum) is usually under-played, meaning you’ll pull it before it max’s out its potential.

Plus, the angels will continue to drink it as time progresses. And it sounds like your cask is losing the fill quite rapidly.
ss

I'd be more concerned with keeping the barrel topped up than about over oaking.
The less there is in the barrel the faster the Angels will take thier share.

Saltbush Bill wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 10:23 pm I'd be more concerned with keeping the barrel topped up than about over oaking.
The less there is in the barrel the faster the Angels will take thier share.

still_stirrin wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 8:55 pm
That won’t happen.

You’d have to age it 5+ years to get even close to a level that might be over-whelming. But with a rum, 24 to 30 months is quite nice. It’ll pick up some nice caramel and toffee notes. It’ll also pick up a great color: dark brown with a noticeable crimson color when held into the light. Time in a cask (for a rum) is usually under-played, meaning you’ll pull it before it max’s out its potential.

Plus, the angels will continue to drink it as time progresses. And it sounds like your cask is losing the fill quite rapidly.
ss

Awesome, thanks for the advice. I think I’ll empty the barrel real quick and weigh the barrel and measure the contents and fill it back up. I meant to do that on initial fill so I could just weigh the barrel to check losses. This is my first barrel attempt and I’ve had the over oaked experience with staves in jars . I have seen a lot of people say that if you just let it ride through it’s good to go. I really thought waxing the outside of the barrel like I did (every thing but the heads) would cut down on the angels share. But apparently not .

Why not just make an oak dipstick to check loses rather than weighing............easier and quicker.

Saltbush Bill wrote: ↑Fri Nov 10, 2023 1:21 pm Why not just make an oak dipstick to check loses rather than weighing............easier and quicker.

And my 5 gallon barrel full weighs 60 lb. I have my young helper weigh it.

I'll make a oak dipstick but I'll have to "calibrate" it, OCD sucks but that's what my life is.

Isn't it enough to mark the full mark, if it's not at that mark then some needs to be added.
Least that's how it works with my barrels.

Saltbush Bill wrote: ↑Fri Nov 10, 2023 5:06 pm Isn't it enough to mark the full mark, if it's not at that mark then some needs to be added.
Least that's how it works with my barrels.

Yes, but...

I didn't say it's right I just said that's the way I am.

When it's not new to me I'll probably just stick my finger in and see how many knuckles get wet.

Yeah that's even easier.

My favorite barrel stick is hollow and luckily it doubles as a whiskey thief lol

-jonny

That is a very good point. I had planned on weighing it by setting my scale under it and slightly lifting it with an air shim between the scale and the barrel. I’m probably over thinking things though. I guess the main point was to know exactly how much I was loosing and be able to chart it. Kinda like calibrating my dip stick. But lol, I think I should just make a dip stick

But more importantly, several of you have talked about topping the barrel up. And others have said that aging is reliant on losses. If I keep adding fresh rum, then won’t I be fighting against the aging process? I’ll do it, I just want to make sure I’m understanding correctly. Thanks for all the help guys.

I think the idea is that the angels take proportionally more of the heads than the hearts which result in smoother spirits. When you top up you're adding more heads but much more hearts (unless you really buggered up your cuts!) so the quality is maintained.

NormandieStill wrote: ↑Sat Nov 11, 2023 8:29 pm I think the idea is that the angels take proportionally more of the heads than the hearts which result in smoother spirits. When you top up you're adding more heads but much more hearts (unless you really buggered up your cuts!) so the quality is maintained.

Thanks, that does make sense. I hadn’t actually seen any one say that before. I just read about losses and people say the barrel age and lose half of it to evaporation. Knowing that topping off is an option, I think in the future I will go ahead and make a couple gallons extra to age as white spirits and keep in a carboy for topping off. So it has the benefit of aging along side the original spirit.

Time flys when you get going. Over a year now on this barrel. I pulled a sample over the summer and it was very oaked. I decided to just leave it alone. I popped the top on it yesterday, didn’t taste it but the oak aroma subsided and it just smells very sweet. Hoping that leaving it evens out the oak, it’s counter intuitive but I’ve read that it happens

Go on, have a taste!

JustinNZ wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2025 12:57 am Go on, have a taste!

Ageed , your tongue is more sensitive than your nose and the last sensor before you swallow .

When it gets cold , barrels want to push out . The pressure in the barrel is high . You can tell if you open the tap , the stuff wants to squirt out .

When the temps warm up , the barrel wants to suck . You can tell this when you open the tap and it doesn’t pour , but glugs back through the tap .

On a sucking cycle , the barrel pulls Oak and you get a much higher Wood “hit” .

On a pressure cycle , the flavour is much smoother .

Both balance out with time in a bottle . The more air in the top , the faster ….. IMO