My first try at a bubble plate column

[OlympicMtDoo]

I have ran a Milehi reflux pot still combo for years, both as a simple reflux and as a pot still. I have had great success with this unit but I have just returned to this hobby after a long layoff. I pride myself in making a really clean neutral that I can then use for many different things. So I decided to try adding a bubble plate section to my column, I bought a 2'' 4 plate section add used it in place of the lower section of my column that was a solid piece with packing. I use a propane burner for heat. I tried running a batch and it was a disaster, I couldn't control the temperature the fluid flow or anything. I used the reflux chamber as usual, tried several adjustments on that with no help, tried adjusting the heat with no help. My main issue I guess was the damn top section of the bubble plates flooded and just screwed up everything. I will screw around with the whole thing and figure it out somehow but any help from others experience would be helpful. To me it's the best part of this hobby, screwing up and figuring out how to fix it. Thanks in advance for and help.

[Sporacle]

Photos of your set up would help, haven't heard to many good reports about 2 inch bubble plates

[Wildcats]

Plus 1. Everything I've read about 2" bubble plates has kept me away from them. As a result I don't have any experience that will help you with yours. Some of the rest of the more experienced members will be a long shortly and hopefully add their wisdom and advice. I hope you get it sorted man. Have fun and stay safe.

[Yummyrum]

If you want a clean neutral , you are better off sticking with the packed section however,
If your bubble plater is flooding , it means the liquid can’t go down faster than the vapour is coming up and being condensed in to reflux . So without looking at the thermometers have enough coolant flow through the deflag to stop all output from the still and turn down the heat ( propane ) until the plates run without flooding . You can then start to reduce coolant flow through the deflag to start taking off product . You could then tweak up the power a bit as you are now taking off some of the product .

At this point ,your plates are running as hard as they can but , you still may be running them too hard . 2” plates are notorious for producing shit drink . Especially if the plate spacing is not large . There are some 4 plate 2” bubblers that only have 2” plate spacing which isn’t enough . They really need around 6-8” spacing between plates .
They also need to be run at a snails pace otherwise they drag through tails which creates the shit tasting spirit .

So here is the dilemma , 2” plates need to be run at a fraction of the power that you can run your packed column .They will be the bottleneck in the setup when used with a packed column .

Use them to make a flavoured spirit and use your packed section for Neutral . If you want cleaner neutral , get another packed section

[OlympicMtDoo]

This is the first time I've tried adding pics so I hope it works. Anyhow this is what the rig looks like. Sounds like from what has been said so far that I may have wasted my money, my product was quite good before but I figured if I can make it better why not. I had slowed the propane down to the point any further and the flame would go out, might still be to hot.

[Saltbush Bill]

Plates are not for making neutral.....packed columns do that job much better.
There is a reason that most plate columns are sold at 4 inch for hobby use.
Also a photo of your set up would help a lot.
Do you have a needle valve to control water flow to the dephlegmator? Without one you will be fighting an up hill battle.
Edit :Seems you posted photos as Typed.
That condenser your using for reflux would also be my last choice as as Defleglamator........a Deflegs job is more than just providing reflux.

[Yummyrum]

You have a beaut spot where you live .
The plate spacing on that is better than some around but it could be larger .

Congrats on the pic posting . But Arrrg , have you noticed that the plastic hose on your output keeps going opaque ?
We don’t condone the use of plastics here . You are drinking dissolved plastic .Check our rules .

Yeah that looks like a pretty fierce gas burner . I can see why you might have trouble keeping it low enough .Probably perfect for stripping runs though

[Saltbush Bill]

Agree Yummy , a smaller burner and, or an adjustable gas regulator would help.

[OlympicMtDoo]

Thanks guys, I knew someone would pickup on my plastic hose but it's been on there since the still was new and I haven't drank it all yet. Yeh the burner is a strong one and it was the first time I have used that burner, my other one makes so damn much noise it disturbs my relaxation time. Maybe I'll try the old burner on a run. Thanks Yummyrum and Saltbush Bill for your thoughts and input. Now that I can post pics heres one from my house without the Canadian wildfire smoke.

[Swedish Pride]

Screw stilling, you should sell postcards.
That is absolutely stunning!!

[Wildcats]

Nice man. Beautiful view. . Plastic bad. Replace it. Have fun and stay safe.

[shadylane]

I bought a 2'' 4 plate section add used it in place of the lower section of my column that was a solid piece with packing. I use a propane burner for heat.

Possible problem.
"propane burner for heat" and 2" bubble cap plates.

Looking at your pics, what is the pot setting in?
Or is that just a shroud?

[OlympicMtDoo]

Hi Shadylane the pot is setting in a tin pan from Tractor supply just to keep the flame from hitting my beautiful stainless steal directly.

[LWTCS]

Need close up pics of the actual plate assembly and I'll be able to point out the issues.

The 2" single cap outfits get a bad wrap because all of these copycats have flooded the market space without doing their homework on top of having very little understanding in the first place.

A correctly designed outfit will have no problem running in steady state and processing 1.3-1.7 LPH without smearing any more than any other plated column.

[Wildcats]

Need close up pics of the actual plate assembly and I'll be able to point out the issues.

The 2" single cap outfits get a bad wrap because all of these copycats have flooded the market space without doing their homework on top of having very little understanding in the first place.

A correctly designed outfit will have no problem running in steady state and processing 1.3-1.7 LPH without smearing any more than any other plated column.

Well it's nice to hear something good said about 2" plates. I have stayed away from them because I've never heard anything good about them.

So if I was looking to get some... I need to be looking for the ones that have at least 6" between the plates?? I think I read you said that... Any other recommendations for 2" plates? Bubble caps?? Perforated? I know I could adapt up to 3" or 4".. I have been looking at plated columns. I'd like to get a glass column with plates at some point. Sorry don't mean to hijack your thread.

[LWTCS]

Need close up pics of the actual plate assembly and I'll be able to point out the issues.

The 2" single cap outfits get a bad wrap because all of these copycats have flooded the market space without doing their homework on top of having very little understanding in the first place.

A correctly designed outfit will have no problem running in steady state and processing 1.3-1.7 LPH without smearing any more than any other plated column.

Well it's nice to hear something good said about 2" plates. I have stayed away from them because I've never heard anything good about them.

So if I was looking to get some... I need to be looking for the ones that have at least 6" between the plates?? I think I read you said that... Any other recommendations for 2" plates? Bubble caps?? Perforated? I know I could adapt up to 3" or 4".. I have been looking at plated columns. I'd like to get a glass column with plates at some point. Sorry don't mean to hijack your thread.

Not my thread.
But do know a thing or three about this concept.

The 6" plate spacings are not a requisite for good hydraulic behavior but certainly will improve behavior to be sure. 4" spacings work fine with precision heat input/control.

The open area for the downcomer should exceed the open area for the vapor path. A true 2" diameter on the glass chimney can make this problematic since there is just not that much real-estate to begin with.

Bubble caps have a wider operating range compared to perfs and random packing. However not all bubble caps are equal.
Without pics I can't tell how inferior those caps are, but I would bet money the geometry is less than optimal.

One can't simply look at another's design aestetic from a photograph and replicate all of the unknown details it took to arrive at the correct end result. And that's what the copy cat's have done. They still to this day don't know what they don't know because they didn't do the work. Someone else did.

[Wildcats]

Thank you for the feedback sir. I definitely will have to do a lot more research on plates. I'm not I a hurry. Thanks again man.

[shadylane]

Hi Shadylane the pot is setting in a tin pan from Tractor supply just to keep the flame from hitting my beautiful stainless steal directly.

The tin pan is limiting the heat transfer to the pot.
In this case, that's good considering the burner appears to be too big for 2" plates.
I'd put some sand in the pan and sit the pot on top of it.

[OlympicMtDoo]

Thanks LWTCS for all the input it's great to hopefully be learning from this whole experience. I'll attach some closeup pics of what I've got. Sorry about the parrot in the back ground it's not part of the subject.

[OlympicMtDoo]

Shadylane wrote:

The tin pan is limiting the heat transfer to the pot.
In this case, that's good considering the burner appears to be too big for 2" plates.
I'd put some sand in the pan and sit the pot on top of it.

Sounds like an idea worth trying Shady thanks.

[LWTCS]

So there is no actual downcomer/ weir then? Just the drain hole in the plate?
This configuration will not allow for an optimal operating range.

I would reckon you have to throw too much heat at the system in order to load the plates with liquid. But doing so means that the liquid isn't able to properly drain in steady state because the heat ( and by extention pressure) needed to load the column will not allow the plates to drain.
With out a proper vapor trap you vapor is shooting straight up the hole as well as straight through the bubble cap.
This promotes smearing as well as flooding,,,,which by the way also promotes smearing.

With precision heat input you may be able to get the thing to behave?

With some 3/8 copper tubing ( or the like) you can make a set of proper downcomer straws and improve the behavior significantly.

Is any of this making sense to you?

[shadylane]

So there is no actual downcomer/ weir then? Just the drain hole in the plate?
This configuration will not allow for an optimal operating range.

That's the understatement of the year.
Looks like it's time to figure out a downcomer and cup.

Or better yet convert to a cap with a central downcomer.

[LWTCS]

To further add:
Imo the vapor holes on the bubble cap riser are too small.
And they are located a bit high on the riser.
Though not critical as long as all of the vapor is turned downward into the liquid bed and mixes well enough to avoid vapor by pass.

EDIT: meant to say the holes on the riser should be closer to the top. Not at mid point.

[LWTCS]

So there is no actual downcomer/ weir then? Just the drain hole in the plate?
This configuration will not allow for an optimal operating range.

That's the understatement of the year.
Looks like it's time to figure out a downcomer and cup.


Or better yet convert to a cap with a central downcomer.

Won't need a cup as long as the downcomer straw discharge is below the liquid level

[shadylane]

Won't need a cup as long as the downcomer straw discharge is below the liquid level

Thats true, but a downcomer with a cup, will behave better when Ya turn the power down.

[shadylane]

With some 3/8 copper tubing ( or the like) you can make a set of proper downcomer straws and improve the behavior significantly.

The light just came on.
Are you suggesting multiple 3/8 downcomers that extend almost all the way down the plate below?
There's not much room for a proper downcomer on a 2" plate.
This would be a "work around" for that problem.
Sounds like something I'd try.

[LWTCS]

Won't need a cup as long as the downcomer straw discharge is below the liquid level

Thats true, but a downcomer with a cup, will behave better when Ya turn the power down.

With perfs I completely agree.
With the turndown ratio of bubble caps it shouldn't matter as long as there is no excessive weeping.

[LWTCS]

With some 3/8 copper tubing ( or the like) you can make a set of proper downcomer straws and improve the behavior significantly.

The light just came on.
Are you suggesting multiple 3/8 downcomers that extend almost all the way down the plate below?
There's not much room for a proper downcomer on a 2" plate.
This would be a "work around" for that problem.
Sounds like something I'd try.

I was only thinking of a single DC due to lack of real estate.

[Saltbush Bill]

There's not much room for a proper downcomer on a 2" plate.

A true 2" diameter on the glass chimney can make this problematic since there is just not that much real-estate to begin with.

I guess this is one of the main reasons I discourage 2 inch Plated columns from being used.
Ive seen so many home built versions fail , simply because they are so fiddly to build due to the lack of internal space.
I cant even comprehend what sort of a pain in the arse it must be to try to build one.
Then you have the multitudes of cheap shit copies out there being produced by people who have no idea about distilling or what makes a still tick.
Stick to buying from people who have done the research and do know......people who did the hard yards early in the development of these types of stills.....people like those from SD.

[shadylane]

Here's a good cap for a 2 incher.