Home Distiller

Hello Everyone! I have been following all of you amazing distillers for quite some time and have borrowed your knowledge often to save me from myself. I've been working on this steam idea for a while. Cooking corn sucks! I have had trouble adapting my herms setup to working with corn. It starts off fine and just gets stuck as soon as geletinization starts. So after months of trial and error and error again I decided steam might be better for my mental health. I wanted it to be modular and use parts I already had (sort of). I used many of the parts from my mash setup and the still column. The theory is that the 4" steam column boils the small volume of water using a 5500 watt element and the keg replenishes as the steam boils off. Currently it has a manual fill valve that I adjust to match the boil off rate, I want to add an automatic fill valve to the keg (maybe a Hudson Valve?), looking for ideas. It has an adjustable 2 way PRV and a pressure equalizing crossover. Wondering how to safely increase pressure as it normally operates on less than 0.5 PSI. Please take a look and let me know what you think.

Nice equipment you have there sir. Just type in steam is the search function and you will get plenty of information on using steam for mashing and distilling. Good luck.

Funnily I was looking at this one last night .
viewtopic.php?t=74628

Basically you have a smaller chamber attached to the side . Connected to the boiler at the top and bottom .
There is a float switch in it that operates a solenoid valve to let the water in .

The water in the side chamber is calm so it is a true representation of the water level in the turbulent boiler and a better place for a float switch or valve .

BackwoodsBrewer wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2023 1:20 pm Wondering how to safely increase pressure as it normally operates on less than 0.5 PSI.

Why would you need more than 0.5 psi? Saturated steam is 213.5 F at that pressure. Isn't that enough to cook corn? Creating higher pressure in the boiler does not increase the speed of gelatinizing the corn in vessel at atmospheric pressure. You have to increase the pressure and temperature of the corn mash

There are devices called autoclaves or pressure cookers that can achieve higher steam pressure thus temperature to sterilize or cook product. In modern tequila production autoclaves are used to cook the pinas in pressure chambers more rapidly than historical methods.

Engineering that type of device is beyond the scope of a hobby forum.

BackwoodsBrewer wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2023 1:20 pm
Wondering how to safely increase pressure as it normally operates on less than 0.5 PSI. Please take a look and let me know what you think.

I wouldn't tinker with the PRV, it's set for .5 PSI for a reason.
More pressure isn't needed.
Have Ya got a part# for the PRV?

zach wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 4:59 pm

BackwoodsBrewer wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2023 1:20 pm Wondering how to safely increase pressure as it normally operates on less than 0.5 PSI.

Why would you need more than 0.5 psi? Saturated steam is 213.5 F at that pressure. Isn't that enough to cook corn? Creating higher pressure in the boiler does not increase the speed of gelatinizing the corn in vessel at atmospheric pressure. You have to increase the pressure and temperature of the corn mash

There are devices called autoclaves or pressure cookers that can achieve higher steam pressure thus temperature to sterilize or cook product. In modern tequila production autoclaves are used to cook the pinas in pressure chambers more rapidly than historical methods.

Engineering that type of device is beyond the scope of a hobby forum.

Converting a keg into a pressure cooker is really very simple. All you have to do is install one of those little nipples and set the weight on top. These weights typically have 3 positions ... 5 psi, 10 psi and 15 psi (250F). I've seen people on this forum that have converted a keg into a pressure cooker.

Salt Must Flow wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 5:13 pm
I've seen people on this forum that have converted a keg into a pressure cooker.

I've seen folks use a keg for a steam generator, but never a pressure cooker.

shadylane wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 5:25 pm

Salt Must Flow wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 5:13 pm
I've seen people on this forum that have converted a keg into a pressure cooker.

I've seen folks use a keg for a steam generator, but never a pressure cooker.

Yeah kegs can easily tolerate 60psi so 5, 10 or 15psi is like nothing. I recall reading that kegs have a burst pressure of 300psi or something like that.

I can't find the thread so I think it was the Artisan Distiller forum where I saw it a long time ago. He installed a large Tri-Clamp ferrule, end cap with the nipple & weight. I recall he was using it to sterilize substrate for growing mushrooms.

High temp (15psi 250F) should should thoroughly gelatinize grain quick. It makes quick work of everything else too like meat, canning, sterilizing, etc...

Salt Must Flow wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 5:13 pm Converting a keg into a pressure cooker is really very simple.

I agree. A keg pressure cooker for canned product is simple. A keg can contain the 15 psig safely, but has needs modifications to allow insertion and removal of jars. A pressure cooker can be directly heated without worry of scorching.

A device to pressure cook corn slop is not simple. Corn meal could plug the orifice in the relief regulator. The vessels needs to be easy to clean. A keg with a pressure rated manway welded might be a good solution for the vessel.

If steam injection is used to cook the corn then a proper steam rated safety valve on the boiler must be installed with a relief capacity that matches the boiler input capacity.

Then how do you stir the corn in a contained vessel while cooking.

Salt Must Flow wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 6:23 pm
Yeah kegs can easily tolerate 60psi so 5, 10 or 15psi is like nothing. I recall reading that kegs have a burst pressure of 300psi or something like that.

How many PSI can a keg handle after it's been welded or brazed on?

shadylane wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 8:06 pm

Salt Must Flow wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 6:23 pm
Yeah kegs can easily tolerate 60psi so 5, 10 or 15psi is like nothing. I recall reading that kegs have a burst pressure of 300psi or something like that.

How many PSI can a keg handle after it's been welded or brazed on?

A hell of a lot more than 15psi How many psi do you think? I'm guessing easily 250psi, likely more. I'd guess that considering kegs have a relatively domed top & bottom, the side would likely blow first. A welded ferrule is likely stronger than the top since it's thicker and more rigid.

Salt Must Flow wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 8:47 pm

shadylane wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 8:06 pm

Salt Must Flow wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 6:23 pm
Yeah kegs can easily tolerate 60psi so 5, 10 or 15psi is like nothing. I recall reading that kegs have a burst pressure of 300psi or something like that.

How many PSI can a keg handle after it's been welded or brazed on?

A hell of a lot more than 15psi How many psi do you think? I'm guessing easily 250psi, likely more. I'd guess that considering kegs have a relatively domed top & bottom, the side would likely blow first. A welded ferrule is likely stronger than the top since it's thicker and more rigid.

Are you sure, how much pressure are you running in your DIY steam rig?

I believe they are tested to 90psi held for short time. But can hold closer to the 250 mark. Whether you should stand by it at 250?

Jezzus

Glad we got a discussion going here but FFS …. Fella's … don’t go testing this . We love you’ll .

Please be safe .

Don’t do anything stupid .

Like really …. How much steam pressure do you actually need ?

I’m sure it’s way less than a modified keg can supply

Pressure vessels are tested are tested at 1.3 x the design pressure and are filled with water prior to the test. This hydrostatic test is to limit the energy release if there is a catastrophic failure during a test. Might be a good idea to test any keg modifications this way.

My steam rig blows bubbles in a 24 inch deep mash cooker.
There're no valves or restrictions, so the max pressure is around 1 psi.
The only way I could get higher pressure than that is to have a partially closed valve.
Valves between a boiler and the atmosphere are not a good idea.

BackwoodsBrewer wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2023 1:20 pm
It has an adjustable 2 way PRV.......Wondering how to safely increase pressure as it normally operates on less than 0.5 PSI. Please take a look and let me know what you think.

Have you got any info on the PRV. A brand name and part# would help.
Judging from the size of the spring in the PRV.
It looks like it's made for a much higher release pressure.

shadylane wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 8:06 pm

Salt Must Flow wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 6:23 pm
Yeah kegs can easily tolerate 60psi so 5, 10 or 15psi is like nothing. I recall reading that kegs have a burst pressure of 300psi or something like that.

How many PSI can a keg handle after it's been welded or brazed on?

I purchased two of these kegs brand new from the manufacturer with a 6” ferrule on top and a 1.5” ferrule on the side. It’s rated for 300 psi from the manufacturer. I’ll get you the info for it if you like.

shadylane wrote: ↑Tue Nov 07, 2023 5:40 pm

BackwoodsBrewer wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2023 1:20 pm
It has an adjustable 2 way PRV.......Wondering how to safely increase pressure as it normally operates on less than 0.5 PSI. Please take a look and let me know what you think.

Have you got any info on the PRV. A brand name and part# would help.
Judging from the size of the spring in the PRV.
It looks like it's made for a much higher release pressure.

I’ll get you the info on the PRV later this week. It has an adjustment to allow for various pressure settings. I have tested it with air at 1 psi and 5 psi.

BackwoodsBrewer wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 10:02 am

shadylane wrote: ↑Tue Nov 07, 2023 5:40 pm

BackwoodsBrewer wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2023 1:20 pm
It has an adjustable 2 way PRV.......Wondering how to safely increase pressure as it normally operates on less than 0.5 PSI. Please take a look and let me know what you think.

Have you got any info on the PRV. A brand name and part# would help.
Judging from the size of the spring in the PRV.
It looks like it's made for a much higher release pressure.

I’ll get you the info on the PRV later this week. It has an adjustment to allow for various pressure settings. I have tested it with air at 1 psi and 5 psi.

Did some more testing on the PRV and it functions well at 5 PSI but is rated at 15 PSI. I'm not happy with the vacuum relief pressure as it holds until almost 15 PSI, luckily I am using a keg and stainless. It's available from MoreBeer and the part number is CON4P7
https://www.morebeer.com/products/moreb ... 1-bar.html

Yummyrum wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 1:13 pm Funnily I was looking at this one last night .
viewtopic.php?t=74628

Basically you have a smaller chamber attached to the side . Connected to the boiler at the top and bottom .
There is a float switch in it that operates a solenoid valve to let the water in .

The water in the side chamber is calm so it is a true representation of the water level in the turbulent boiler and a better place for a float switch or valve .

My system works the opposite way. My 5500W element is located in the small boil cylinder and the fill valve comes in to the large feed keg to keep levels easier to maintain. The small cylinder heats the feed water quickly and makes steam within minutes while the large vessel provides feed water and maintains water levels in the boil cylinder. So far it I've tested it with 20 and 40 gallon batches and it can maintain a steady boil. It reached boil from 60 F in less than 40 minutes.