Advice for my first still setup

[Steelers_Stiller]

I am interested in putting together my first still. I've got the means to do some fabrication. No tig welder but I can cut, drill, solder, etc..... Been looking around at a bunch of options to build vs. buy. I get a bit overwhelmed with all the info here an options.

I'm interested in making basic whiskey, someday maybe being able to hit the targets of an actual bourbon. I'd also like to make some clear spirit that I could do some simple infusions with.

Been really leaning toward getting a 1/2 Barrell Keg and modifying it. Or maybe just buying this one because I can't seem to find any cheap ones locally. https://www.gwkent.com/15-gallon-semi-keg.html
Seems like a decent deal. Thoughts?

I am considering building a 2" stainless steel column to come up off the keg. I see there are a bunch of companies on Amazon that sell sanitary pipe. One that I am looking at is called Dernord. Reviews look pretty good and pricing is reasonable. Anyone here have experience with this company, or other competiors on Amazon? I was thinking of 18" riser, then (2) 90 degree fittings, into a reducer that goes down to 3/4" NPT. All these pieces would have 2" T.C connections. Buying all this would be cheaper that 10' of 2" copper pipe.

I would then build a copper Liebig, 1" over 3/4", overall length between 4 and 5' long to connect to the stainless steel. See attachment for details on the build. One question I have on the liebig is would your recommend a 90 or 45 at the connection to the column?

Thoughts on this setup for my intended purpose?

Another option I see is this premade "Reflux Column" found on Amazon. Anyone have experience with these. Current price on this is just over $100. There are many other options that all appear to be the same. I'm sure all of this is made in China, not the best quality but, wondering if its useable.


Thoughts on this setup for my intended purpose vs. making the column and Liebig as noted above?

[Twisted Brick]

That's a really good price for that still. Installing a 90* allows you to adjust the condenser's orientation/slope. A 45* does not.

[Deplorable]

That's a good price on the prefab keg boiler if the shipping isn't ridiculous.
Since you say you have the skills, I would build the still head from copper pipe and SS ferrules. Get a 6 foot stick of 2" type M copper pipe and build a modular CCVM and a shotgun type condenser.
If you have any electrical savy, you can build your own power controller as well.

[Salt Must Flow]

That keg you linked to appears like a great buy at first, but the drain kinda sucks. A true bottom drain allows you to rinse the boiler out and all of the water just runs out. The drain on this keg acts like a siphon only if you have a hose connected that extends below the bottom of the keg. If after draining, you try rinse the keg out, it won't drain until it first creates a siphon. That would just drive me nuts. Technically you really don't need 2 elements in a 15.5 gal keg boiler. Sure it would be convenient for really fast heat-up, but I never felt the need to add another ferrule to my keg. I like having 4 swiveling casters attached to my boilers which makes it super convenient to be able to roll them around very easily.

If you can find a keg locally for cheap, you can have a Tri-Clamp ferrule TIG welded to the top. You could cut a hole in the side and use a Tri-Clamp bulkhead fitting for the electric elements if you want to. I just had my local TIG guy weld a cheap 2" Tri-Clamp ferrule because he's doing work already, ferrules are cheap and his price for welding was also cheap.

A bottom drain only costs the price for a few parts and a ball valve. I found 1" stainless ball valves cheap on Amazon or eBay.

The question, "build or buy" usually ends up with 'you can build it exactly the way you want it' otherwise you pay more and not get what is exactly ideal. Just go with what you want. Also keep in mind that bells & whistles can be added over time as you feel the need for them.

[greggn]

That keg you linked to appears like a great buy at first, but the drain kinda sucks.

Wouldn't it still be a great buy if he then just paid to have a drain ferrule welded to the bottom ?

I'd buy it.

[The Baker]

Salt Must Flow wrote, 'I like having 4 swivelling casters attached to my boilers which makes it super convenient to be able to roll them around very easily.'

Three castors can handle an uneven floor better.

Geoff

[MooseMan]

I am interested in putting together my first still. I've got the means to do some fabrication. No tig welder but I can cut, drill, solder, etc..... Been looking around at a bunch of options to build vs. buy. I get a bit overwhelmed with all the info here an options.

I'm interested in making basic whiskey, someday maybe being able to hit the targets of an actual bourbon. I'd also like to make some clear spirit that I could do some simple infusions with.

Been really leaning toward getting a 1/2 Barrell Keg and modifying it. Or maybe just buying this one because I can't seem to find any cheap ones locally. https://www.gwkent.com/15-gallon-semi-keg.html
Seems like a decent deal. Thoughts?

I am considering building a 2" stainless steel column to come up off the keg. I see there are a bunch of companies on Amazon that sell sanitary pipe. One that I am looking at is called Dernord. Reviews look pretty good and pricing is reasonable. Anyone here have experience with this company, or other competiors on Amazon? I was thinking of 18" riser, then (2) 90 degree fittings, into a reducer that goes down to 3/4" NPT. All these pieces would have 2" T.C connections. Buying all this would be cheaper that 10' of 2" copper pipe.

I would then build a copper Liebig, 1" over 3/4", overall length between 4 and 5' long to connect to the stainless steel. See attachment for details on the build. One question I have on the liebig is would your recommend a 90 or 45 at the connection to the column?

Thoughts on this setup for my intended purpose?

Another option I see is this premade "Reflux Column" found on Amazon. Anyone have experience with these. Current price on this is just over $100. There are many other options that all appear to be the same. I'm sure all of this is made in China, not the best quality but, wondering if its useable.


Thoughts on this setup for my intended purpose vs. making the column and Liebig as noted above?

I'd suggest the first option, get a keg (A full size one not a 1/2 keg) and add 2" tri-clamp parts to make your own setup.
And a 1" over 3/4" Liebig is a great option that will serve you well. If you can though, to keep it all Tri-clamp right through, attach a 1" TC on the end of the Liebig to attach to a 2"-1" TC reducer from the second elbow. It's just a better all round connection system.

If you are thinking of adding a reflux setup to your still at a later date, instead of buying 2x elbows, get one elbow, and then get a 2" equal Tee and a 2" blank end plate which will act as an elbow in a pot still setup, but can be used as a Tee when you need it later down the line in a reflux setup.
I'd understand if that last bit doesn't make sense at the moment, but trust me, with a bit more reading around it will become clear.

[still_stirrin]

… Installing a 90* allows you to adjust the condenser's orientation/slope. A 45* does not.

+1, sorta. I suggest two 90* elbows with a copper union between the two. That way you can adjust the declination angle from horizontal to nearly vertical, and any angle in between.

The 18” riser is good if you need to get the outlet higher above the floor. Plus, when you add another 18” spool plus a 2” tee and a reflux condenser, you can add packing and have a nice starter reflux column. (Think ahead, I always say).
ss

[Stags]

Controversial take: do whatever’s cheapest to make sure you like this hobby before sinking “big” money into it, whatever that means to you

[shadylane]

I think the readymade keg stills that are available now are a great option to start with.
Then build the condensers yourself and use SS spools for a reflux column.
When you start getting into whiskey, buy another readymade keg and use it as a steam stripper.

Stags advice is very good, don't spent too much for something fancy.
Go for cheap, efficient and practical.

[rubberduck71]

There's another thread around here talking about those Kent kegs. No negative reviews, but you will definitely need to be careful on length of elements and/or consider ones that "curve" so they don't touch.

Also, if you're already dropping the $$$, go 3" or 4" column. That keg comes with a 4" triclamp already. I've run 2", 3", & 4" columns between my own rigs + a buddy's over the last 3 years. The amount of time decreases drastically for run of same volume through a larger column (if you have enough power to push the vapor & cooling to handle it).

I only have access to 120v power in my "lab," so for that 15 gal Kent keg, I'd recommend 2 internal elements & Brewhaus sells a 1500 w heater band that I believe will fit around it. My experience has been 3rd element helps immensely with faster heat-up times, but then you'll need power controller on 2nd element, while 1st is 100% when you actually start producing.

[Bushman]

You can also save money with a 1/2” inside and 3/4” outside tubing for a Liebig.
viewtopic.php?t=9247

[OtisT]

I only have access to 120v power in my "lab," so for that 15 gal Kent keg, I'd recommend 2 internal elements & Brewhaus sells a 1500 w heater band that I believe will fit around it. My experience has been 3rd element helps immensely with faster heat-up times, but then you'll need power controller on 2nd element, while 1st is 100% when you actually start producing.

Fyi for Steelers_stiller - if you follow this recommendation above be aware that each of those 1500w elements will need to run on a separate circuit. If you run other appliances on any of those circuits, you will want to turn them off while stilling. If your shed is like mine you don’t have easy access to three circuits in one room. If you run extension cords to gain access to more circuits, make sure the extension cords are heavy duty, over rated, for your use.

[rubberduck71]

Fyi for Steelers_stiller - if you follow this recommendation above be aware that each of those 1500w elements will need to run on a separate circuit. If you run other appliances on any of those circuits, you will want to turn them off while stilling. If your shed is like mine you don’t have easy access to three circuits in one room. If you run extension cords to gain access to more circuits, make sure the extension cords are heavy duty, over rated, for your use.

Excellent points! I have a freezer on it's own circuit in my lab & then a heavy duty extension cord to the next room on a separate circuit.

[Steelers_Stiller]

Thanks for al the advice so far! It all leads to rabbit holes of reading
Not sure I want to start off with building a shotgun right now. It looks like a great project for the future. I think I could get started with a Liebig and hopefully grow from there.

Here is my idea for what I can make with what I've got for now. Please feel free to provide some input on this design regarding lengths of sections or anything else you can think of that would make the column more modular or run better.

[Steelers_Stiller]

There's another thread around here talking about those Kent kegs. No negative reviews, but you will definitely need to be careful on length of elements and/or consider ones that "curve" so they don't touch.

Also, if you're already dropping the $$$, go 3" or 4" column. That keg comes with a 4" triclamp already. I've run 2", 3", & 4" columns between my own rigs + a buddy's over the last 3 years. The amount of time decreases drastically for run of same volume through a larger column (if you have enough power to push the vapor & cooling to handle it).

I only have access to 120v power in my "lab," so for that 15 gal Kent keg, I'd recommend 2 internal elements & Brewhaus sells a 1500 w heater band that I believe will fit around it. My experience has been 3rd element helps immensely with faster heat-up times, but then you'll need power controller on 2nd element, while 1st is 100% when you actually start producing.

240V power is readily available. Trying to source a local keg and modify it with a 1.5 Triclamp for a 5KW element and a 1" bung in the bottom to drain. Need to do some research on a home built controller. If you know any good threads on that, please share

[Homebrewer11777]

I've got that kent keg and really like it. I run two elements off different 20 amp circuits in my garage. The elements are nominally 2100 watts each but according to my controller they max out around 1950. Still have enough juice in those circuits to run some other accessories on those lines.

As for the bottom drain keg conversion that is certainly an option but then it doesn't just sit nicely on any table. I do remember first time I used a dip tube drain I ran into same problem/frustration salt-must-flow describes but that was 10+ years ago and understanding how siphons work becomes second nature fast. All you need is a valve, a hose connection and a hose that descends below bottom of your kettle and you are good to go. My still sits on a table and the hose connection drops 24" into either a corney keg if I'm keeping the backset or a bucket if not.

[shadylane]

Thanks for al the advice so far! It all leads to rabbit holes of reading
Not sure I want to start off with building a shotgun right now. It looks like a great project for the future. I think I could get started with a Liebig and hopefully grow from there.

Here's the entrance to the condenser rabbit hole.
viewforum.php?f=87

[Salt Must Flow]

As for the bottom drain keg conversion that is certainly an option but then it doesn't just sit nicely on any table.

If you attach 3 or 4 feet to the keg, it will sit flat. I install 4 swiveling casters so it rolls around easily as well.

All it takes is to have 3 or 4 threaded long nuts welded to the bottom of the keg. Now you can screw in threaded rod with feet or swiveling casters. They can even be adjusted to level the boiler if needed. I even throw in a nut to be used as a 'lock nut' to secure any adjustments. You can get swiveling casters that have locks on them so they don't roll around when you don't want them to. I use two of those on each boiler. The other two don't really need them or that added expense.

[Homebrewer11777]

nice feature. I can see advantage of the bottom drain and wheels for a taller still...mine is a simple pot still sitting on a table. Not sure I'd be comfortable with casters on table. So with my setup no issue running a siphon tube 18" to a bucket or corney keg on the floor and that drain works well in that configuration. If I am guessing correct and you are running the boiler while it sits on the floor...do you just drain down the driveway or into a floor drain? How do you recover backset? Pump?

I think probably major consideration is welding ability or at least access to welding. Never been my thing...plumbing and electronics are fine but not welding. The Kent keg came out of the box with the ports I really needed. Would not mind a thermometer port or a second top filling port but neither seemed really necessary (and if you don't want two elements I guess the second TC at the base could be used for a thermometer).

Kent also has a 26 gallon keg with the same ports for $10 more shipping is a lot higher on the larger keg. The 15 gallon keg is under 50 lbs and ships for about $30.

[greggn]

Would not mind a thermometer port or a second top filling port

You could effectively add a fill port by using a T-spool (or better yet, an instrument T) ... simply cap it off when running.

tee.jpeg (7.54 KiB) Viewed 5011 times

A more elegant option would be a lateral-Y, sometimes called an asymmetric Y) but those are becoming hard to find.

lateral.jpg (14.41 KiB) Viewed 5011 times

[Tōtōchtin]

45* lateral fitting
https://stainlessandalloy.com/stainless ... -laterals/
Tōtō

[Homebrewer11777]

$533 think I will pass lol...

[Salt Must Flow]

nice feature. I can see advantage of the bottom drain and wheels for a taller still...mine is a simple pot still sitting on a table. Not sure I'd be comfortable with casters on table. So with my setup no issue running a siphon tube 18" to a bucket or corney keg on the floor and that drain works well in that configuration. If I am guessing correct and you are running the boiler while it sits on the floor...do you just drain down the driveway or into a floor drain? How do you recover backset? Pump?

I think probably major consideration is welding ability or at least access to welding. Never been my thing...plumbing and electronics are fine but not welding. The Kent keg came out of the box with the ports I really needed. Would not mind a thermometer port or a second top filling port but neither seemed really necessary (and if you don't want two elements I guess the second TC at the base could be used for a thermometer).

Kent also has a 26 gallon keg with the same ports for $10 more shipping is a lot higher on the larger keg. The 15 gallon keg is under 50 lbs and ships for about $30.

Yeah I always run with the boiler on the floor. I could put it on a table if I had to (just lock the 2 casters). You could also use threaded rod or feet/legs instead of castes. I use a relatively tall riser so I can collect product on a table or counter top. I also use a shotgung condenser so I guess you could say my riser is really tall.

I rarely ever mess with backset because I mostly make neutral. Yes I send the contents either down a floor drain or out a door using an attached hose. If I had to mess with backset then yes you could use a pump (after it's cool), siphon or set the boiler on a platform to use the bottom drain.

Soldering is an inexpensive and easy way of adding a thermowell. Here's a pic of a stainless half coupling I soldered to on of my boilers. Right now it's plugged, but I used to have a DIY thermowell installed using a copper tube. You could probably find stainless or brass bulkhead fittings with a PTFE gasket. All you would need is to drill a hole and install the fitting.

I don't weld myself. I do all the work and just take the parts to a local guy who TIG welds for me. The cost for welding shouldn't put you off and if it does, they're charging too much. My guy is very reasonably priced. I just contacted a local welding supply store, asked if they know of a customer of theirs that does TIG welding on the side. They recommended him and I'm glad they did.

[Tōtōchtin]

$533 think I will pass lol...

They can be had from 50 to 70 funtickets US.
Tōtō

[Homebrewer11777]

$533 think I will pass lol...

They can be had from 50 to 70 funtickets US.
Tōtō

Perhaps from Ali express but not the linked website (best I saw on Ali was $150 for a 4" y-type lateral tee but didn't look that long).

TBH I've gotten used disconnecting the TC connection and moving the still head (it is a pot still, not that cumbersome) and inverting my carboys into the keg 4" opening. I use one of these carboy drainer stands on top of the keg to hold it in position while it empties into the keg. Having a port off center might not actually be any easier to manage.

[Jabman]

I builded few month ago this viewtopic.php?t=90882

First parts, it's too short (need extension) and CM isn't the best setup, changed it to VM, added extension, half filled (bottom) very small lava rocks and top with aquarium stones etc. (cannot remember brand, but like ceramic rings) output +95% ABV, no need to hassle water flow rate etc. Just open valve (2-3 times total) and let it run.

Easy to modify either pot still or reflux. Just this morning runned pot still mode, stripped fast some TFFV, take a side little bit hearts (rest go to wait bigger spirit run) and made gin (tiny patch) now with air still clone. And it tastes good.

[Steelers_Stiller]

I haven't started building anything but I've already come across an issue.

I have Type L copper Pipe. The ID is just under 2"
The 2" Tri Clamp ferrules I have are exactly 2" OD. They will not slip inside the pipe.

I was thinking of using a tail pipe expander to widen the pipe just enough to allow the ferrules to fit.
Any other ways to make this work?

[Salt Must Flow]

I haven't started building anything but I've already come across an issue.

I have Type L copper Pipe. The ID is just under 2"
The 2" Tri Clamp ferrules I have are exactly 2" OD. They will not slip inside the pipe.

I was thinking of using a tail pipe expander to widen the pipe just enough to allow the ferrules to fit.
Any other ways to make this work?

Alternatively, you could easily just grind around the Tri-Clamp ferrules to make them fit. The abraded surface would be big benefit too. Ferrules are thick enough to where it would not harm them a bit to reduce their diameter. If you know someone that owns a lathe, that would be another great way to precisely reduce their diameter. It's a very simple job with a lathe.

The main reason I would rather grind the ferrules, if you expand the copper too much, it could cause an issue. I'd prefer to not alter the copper pipe's appearance if at all possible (no expanded ends).

[Yummyrum]

I haven't started building anything but I've already come across an issue.

I have Type L copper Pipe. The ID is just under 2"
The 2" Tri Clamp ferrules I have are exactly 2" OD. They will not slip inside the pipe.

I was thinking of using a tail pipe expander to widen the pipe just enough to allow the ferrules to fit.
Any other ways to make this work?

Alternatively, you could easily just grind around the Tri-Clamp ferrules to make them fit. The abraded surface would be big benefit too. Ferrules are thick enough to where it would not harm them a bit to reduce their diameter. If you know someone that owns a lathe, that would be another great way to precisely reduce their diameter. It's a very simple job with a lathe.

The main reason I would rather grind the ferrules, if you expand the copper too much, it could cause an issue. I'd prefer to not alter the copper pipe's appearance if at all possible (no expanded ends).

+1 SMF .
I had to do exactly that the other day when the Chinese ferule I bought would not slip into the copper coupling I was using . ( it was maybe 0.5mm too large)
I rotated it in small amounts on the bench grinder and then when the bulk was removed , finished it off od the Linisher . And the rough surface creates a much better solder adhesion than a smooth ferule surface .