Home Distiller

Posted: **Wed Jan 03, 2024 4:35 pm**

I am looking to do relatively clean American Single Malts. I have a 15.5 gallon keg pot still with a 2” (14” length) copper column and 27” Liebig condenser on an electric element with control. I can run low and slow at 25-30% power.

I have not used any packing as of yet on my first 10 or so runs of corn whiskey and have noticed a relatively funky fruity moonshine flavor even after it’s been on oak for 9 months or so. At first I thought it was my cuts but the latest batches I’ve been doing narrow cuts and still taste the funky fruity profile (about 25-30% volume of total output… ie 0.5 gallons makes Final Cut out of 2 gallons of distillate). I’ve been doing stripping runs followed by spirit run with water dilution in the pot.

Is my column big enough for 10 gallon washes? Would packing with some copper mesh and ssp help to clean up the flavor profile a bit? I’m not looking for neutral spirit but just a bit less funky profile. Thanks.

Posted: **Wed Jan 03, 2024 4:55 pm**

If you're just pot stilling then the height of the riser won't affect anything meaningful. If your still is 100% stainless then putting 3-4 rolls of copper mesh in the base of the riser could be beneficial ONLY to have copper in the vapor path. Other than that, no packing is needed or useful at all. You could also put copper pieces/fittings inside the boiler.

Now if you were operating a reflux column then packing is a must. Reflux columns are typically used for making neutral, but people have removed quite a bit of packing (or use a much shorter packed column) to make a lighter flavored spirit.

Posted: **Wed Jan 03, 2024 5:01 pm**

You can do small spirit runs in a larger boiler. You just need to make sure the element doesn't get exposed during a run. This can't be the issue.

Just how are you doing your runs. I know you said a stripping run then a spirit run, but maybe it would help if you elaborated a bit. Like power input, take-off rate, etc... For instance if you're doing spirit runs too quick, that can smear from jar to jar.

Are you doing all grain mashes or UJSSM (sugar wash with corn)?

Posted: **Wed Jan 03, 2024 5:09 pm**

We need a little more information about what recipe you are using, mashing process and distillation process.

You are running a pot still with a riser not a column. Pot stilling single malt is good idea. Copper packing is unlikely to have a significant effect on flavour.

Can you post a pic of your still? Still design may cause smearing.

Shoot some pics of how you are oaking your distillate as well.

Show us what you are doing and there is someone here who will be able to help.

Posted: **Wed Jan 03, 2024 5:17 pm**

Thanks for the feedback Salt.

All grain mashes so far. At least 51% flaked corn with different % of rye, wheat, malted barley per recipe. I’m moving away from corn because it’s a pain in the butt to work with and because I’m a beer brewer by background and VERY comfortable working with all barley. I’m setup great for single malt washes and have really loved some recent American Single Malts I’ve had.

I run a 5500w heating element that is covered with about 3.5gallons of liquid in the pot. I run that element off a Blichmann power controller and run it at around 30% power. I had started high heat to get up to temp but scorched a batch and have since just gone low and slow at about 30% power.

Rate is about 45 minutes a liter if I had to estimate. It’s a drip drip spurt rate. I cut into mason jars on spirit run and have been taking the cleanest (usually middle) 30% of jars as my hearts.

Posted: **Wed Jan 03, 2024 5:26 pm**

This riser and Liebig condenser on top a 15.5 gallon stainless steel sanke keg 4” ferrule top to 4/2” reducer fitting to 2” sight glass to 2” riser x14” height. Sorry don’t have a pic of it assembled on hand.

Oaking has been with cubes at about 2 oz per gallon rate of medium toast oak that I torch char myself to alligator char on exterior of cubes. Aging in glass gallon jugs or mason jars.

I have not been letting my cuts jars get air with cloth on top as some have mentioned. I may try that let the cuts sit and get some air for a few days with paper towel on top before picking hearts and combining. Maybe this will let some of those funky fruity notes air off?

Posted: **Wed Jan 03, 2024 5:31 pm**

JB_12 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2024 5:17 pm Thanks for the feedback Salt.

All grain mashes so far. At least 51% flaked corn with different % of rye, wheat, malted barley per recipe. I’m moving away from corn because it’s a pain in the butt to work with and because I’m a beer brewer by background and VERY comfortable working with all barley. I’m setup great for single malt washes and have really loved some recent American Single Malts I’ve had.

I run a 5500w heating element that is covered with about 3.5gallons of liquid in the pot. I run that element off a Blichmann power controller and run it at around 30% power. I had started high heat to get up to temp but scorched a batch and have since just gone low and slow at about 30% power.

Rate is about 45 minutes a liter if I had to estimate. It’s a drip drip spurt rate. I cut into mason jars on spirit run and have been taking the cleanest (usually middle) 30% of jars as my hearts.

I'm pretty sure you're doing your spirit run a bit too fast. I recall operating my 5500W element at 17% power. I could be wrong. Maybe others take-off faster, but just going by old notes.

Posted: **Wed Jan 03, 2024 5:33 pm**

I cut coffee filters into disks about the same diameter as my jar lids and use them along with the jar rings to leave my jars sit overnight. I try not to let them sit any longer than that. I like letting the product air out because by the time my spirit run is done, I'm just happy to walk away and forget about it until the next day.

Posted: **Wed Jan 03, 2024 5:48 pm**

I will say that I have been taking my low wines (2 gallons) and adding to 4-5 gallons filtered water to make a 6-7 gallon charge for my spirit run. This way I can run off 2 gallons of distillate on the spirit run and still be well above the heating element liquid level in the pot. Running this usually takes me about 10 hours with a good 1.5 hour heat up. I’d say the still produces over 8-8.5 hr on the spirit run. So roughly 1L per hour I guess.

I have no problem slowing down if it will create a better product.

Posted: **Thu Jan 04, 2024 12:45 am**

What recipe is this, you not say much? What yeast used, what is starting gravity, ferment temperature. What you put in it etc., how many days start to finish ferment, what is FG? These all affects what you get. I assume this is not in tried and true recipes section?

But I would guess yeast and temperature gives you those fruity flavors.

And then looking your other post, you say you use "Wyeast 1469 West Yorkshire Ale" and then wonder fruity flavor on your end product? Why not change this yeast that gives more neutral taste, if this is what you are looking for? Maybe us-05 and right temperature for fermentation (not too hot)

Posted: **Thu Jan 04, 2024 2:45 am**

JB_12 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2024 4:35 pm funky fruity moonshine flavor

This baffles me , what exactly is moonshine flavour ?..... If I had to guess at that Id say to much heads or tails......good moonshine is going to be up there or better than store bought......bad moonshine is going to taste like shit....heads or tails or both.
As someone stated , maybe your running to fast and smearing everything ?

JB_12 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2024 5:17 pm It’s a drip drip spurt rate.

What makes a pot still do that ? mine either drip slowly , quickly or run at a broken stream or a solid stream......there is no spurting ......that would annoy the hell out of me....Id have to find what the problem was.

JB_12 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2024 5:26 pm I have not been letting my cuts jars get air with cloth on top as some have mentioned. I may try that let the cuts sit and get some air for a few days with paper towel on top before picking hearts and combining.

That would be a good start I think , don't be put off by those who say you'll lose to much flavour. You'll lose more of what you dont want than what you do want. just look at it as the Angels getting some of their bit sooner.

Posted: **Thu Jan 04, 2024 4:30 am**

@Jabman
I used US-05 for the corn whiskey runs. Fermented at 68F. These mashes varied but were in the 1.060-1.070 range and I do recall pitching 3-4 packets each batch. 10 gallon ferments off grain. Four grain for the most part not from the tried and true section but all had less than 60% corn. Some 51%, some 55%. If I recall correctly fermentation finished out in around a week on these. Mostly let them sit for a few weeks closed off in the fermenter so no oxidation and souring then ran the wash. All of them finished around 1.000. I don’t recall any batches stalling or not attenuating.

@Saltbush
That may be it. I may be running spirit run too fast and smearing. Will slow down for the next run and see what happens and also let the jars air out.

What would a good output rate be on a 2” riser pot still like mine? 1L an hour too fast?

Posted: **Thu Jan 04, 2024 8:36 am**

JB

You did stripping runs ( with the mash ), then did a spirit run. The spirit run used 2 gal low wines plus 4.5 gal water to get up to 6.5 gal so you would not run below your heating element.

But, if the low wines were at 30-35% abv, then your spirit run was at about 10% abv pot charge, that is low for a spirit run. Many stillers do 3 strips and maybe dilute with a small amount of water to do the spirit run at 25%-30'% abv.

___________________

Also, your spirit run is taking way too long if you are running at 1650 watts ( 30% of 5500 watts ). If the full watts were effective, it would take about 2.5 hours to get 8 liters distillate, not 8 hours.

So, you must be getting a lot of passive reflux in the 14" vertical riser ( plus the sight glass). Do you see condensed liquid reflux coming down in the sight glass?

The passive reflux liquid coming back into the pot will reduce the net vapor flow and give a longer run time. I estimate ( from calcs in our HD Calculator section and in Hobbybrennen ) that about 33% reflux could extend the run time to 8 hours.

The passive reflux increases the abv somewhat, but it mainly lowers the net product rate and extends the run time. Can it cause some smearing and your tasting problem? Maybe or maybe not, I do not know. Insulating the riser could reduce the amount of passive reflux.

_______________

The 1650 watts could lead to smearing since the vapor rate out the pot is high. Best thing would be to insulate the riser and run at lower watts.

Running at 1 L/hr ( the average rate ) does not seem too fast. The actual rate might have been 1.25 L/hr at the start and down to < 1 L/hr at the end. But that is the net rate after the riser.

And, you did not do a typical spirit run. Next time, do the spirit run at 25%-30% abv, mostly low wines from 3 strip runs, about 8.5 gal in the pot. At the higher abv pot charge the pot vapor rate will be higher, so find a lower watts ( maybe 800 to 1100 w ) to give a net 1 L/hr distillate rate, or even take a lower rate if a lot of passive reflux.

The run can take longer since you have three times the alcohol. But you do not have to run way down to a very low abv out the spout, like you probably have been doing. If you start at 8.5 gal, go down to 4 gal collected, could be about 20% abv out the spout.

Anyway, here is some more food for thought.

haggy

Posted: **Thu Jan 04, 2024 9:16 am**

haggy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 8:36 am
Anyway, here is some more food for thought.

haggy

Great advice above. Will play around with all the above methods and see if that helps. Thank you!

P.s. yes I do see a decent amount of condensate coming down in the sight glass. This occurs normally throughout the whole run.

Posted: **Thu Jan 04, 2024 9:06 pm**

Saltbush Bill wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 2:45 am
JB_12 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2024 5:17 pm It’s a drip drip spurt rate.
What makes a pot still do that ? mine either drip slowly , quickly or run at a broken stream or a solid stream......there is no spurting ......that would annoy the hell out of me....Id have to find what the problem was.

Bill - this won’t surprise you. I know of two sources that said “drip drip spurt” is how to run a still. The TV show Moonshiners and a certain YouTuber.

Posted: **Thu Jan 04, 2024 10:05 pm**

I'm not at all surprised,.... I've seen and heard what you've seen.

It's just plain BS, that's not how a pot still should run.

Posted: **Fri Jan 05, 2024 8:02 am**

Saltbush Bill wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 10:05 pm I'm not at all surprised,.... I've seen and heard what you've seen.
It's just plain BS, that's not how a pot still should run.

Would the below make sense on my pot still during a spirit run of low wines?

Higher heat to heat up (maybe 50-60% of 5500w) without worry about scorching due to clear low wines in pot
Fast drip through heads
Lower heat down to slow drip heading into hearts
Slow drip through hearts until tasting some tails
Faster drip when entering into tails
Steady stream to rip out rest of tails down to about 40 proof output

Target an average of 1-1.25L per hour rate in total. Will insulate my riser to see if that helps output rate as well.

Posted: **Fri Jan 05, 2024 11:52 am**

Stripping run: Heat-up at whatever amount of heat is appropriate for your mash. For instance for sugar washes I've always heated up at 5500W at 100% power. I've even heated up at 11000W and no chance of scorching or puking. I strip as fast as I can. As high of power that's appropriate for the wash or mash without scorching and not too much power to over-power the product condenser. Collect everything until your total collected low wines is at least 40% ABV. For flavored spirits people collect much more, like even down to 20% ABV. Some do a Foreshot cut on stripping runs (which would be a slow take-off rate). I don't, but some do.

Spirit Run:
Heat-up as fast or as slow as you prefer. After heat-up, reduce power.
Take-off foreshots very slowly.
Begin taking off heads a little faster.
Hearts can be taken off faster.
Once you're into tails, just keep collecting until you're done.
Make cuts.

Some just quit once their into tails. Others keep collecting tails and throw them into their Feints container.

I would search the forum to read up on take-off rates. People describe take-off rates like "an interrupted stream", "3-4 drops per second" and things like that. I prefer when people list LPH for take-off rates because that can be reproduced.

Posted: **Fri Jan 05, 2024 1:02 pm**

Salt Must Flow wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2024 11:52 am.

I would search the forum to read up on take-off rates. People describe take-off rates like "an interrupted stream", "3-4 drops per second" and things like that. I prefer when people list LPH for take-off rates because that can be reproduced.

JB_12. In addition to this great advice above, realize that the takeoff rate from one person to the next can and should vary because we are running different rigs. For pot still boilers I use a 1 liter, 2.5 gallon, 7 gallon, and 15 gallon boiler. I don’t run them all at the same power level so they have different takeoff rates.

For determining my target takeoff rate, I use a different method than most but it is repeatable and translates to all my equipment. I base my desired pot still spirit run takeoff rate (I.e. power setting) on how much product I plan to collect. I do the maths needed to calculate exactly how many liters I will be collecting, then I adjust the power/takeoff rate so that collecting all of that expected volume will take 6 hours +/-. I often cut off when tails start, so most runs are less than 6 hours. This is just a general rule starting point for me, and I make adjustments to this based on the spirit I am making and how I plan to age it.

Posted: **Fri Jan 05, 2024 2:45 pm**

OtisT wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2024 1:02 pm
Salt Must Flow wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2024 11:52 am.
I base my desired pot still spirit run takeoff rate (I.e. power setting) on how much product I plan to collect. I do the maths needed to calculate exactly how many liters I will be collecting, then I adjust the power/takeoff rate so that collecting all of that expected volume will take 6 hours +/-. I often cut off when tails start, so most runs are less than 6 hours. This is just a general rule starting point for me, and I make adjustments to this based on the spirit I am making and how I plan to age it.
Now THAT is super helpful. It makes total sense, but I never really knew how people scale up with power & take-off rate.

Home Distiller

Column and Packing

Column and Packing

Re: Column and Packing

Re: Column and Packing

Re: Column and Packing

Re: Column and Packing

Re: Column and Packing

Re: Column and Packing

Re: Column and Packing

Re: Column and Packing

Re: Column and Packing

Re: Column and Packing

Re: Column and Packing

Re: Column and Packing

Re: Column and Packing

Re: Column and Packing

Re: Column and Packing

Re: Column and Packing

Re: Column and Packing

Re: Column and Packing

Re: Column and Packing