YLAY rice drop in pH

[john_bud]

Sorry, i searched but couldn't find the answer

I did 7.5# short grain rice that i chopped in a blender (no mill). I made as much powder / flour as i could without letting all the magic smoke out of the blender. Added 4gal hot tap water pH 6.8 and pitched yellow lable (starter for liquor) Angel Yeast. In 24 hours at 98F, it reduced all the powder and left only the bigger chunks. Its still going. I taste tested a mash sample ( Sour!) !! Tested pH and its 3.6.

Is this "normal" for the yellow label stuff with rice?

Should i add something (like "tums" ?) to bring pH into a more yeast happy zone? Or just shut the lid and back away slowly...

[NZChris]

Put a large shell or a chunk of marble in it.

[Saltbush Bill]

Id leave it be , I've never had to adust PH for Yellow Lable yet........nor remember reading of anyone else doing so.
Some other members who have a lot of experience with this stuff might pipe up and give an opinion.

[Dancing4dan]

I have never checked a YLY ferment PH. Some ferments will smell sour to me after a while but just let them sit in cool room after ferment is done and it clears up

[john_bud]

It sounds like sitting down and relaxing is what i should do.

[NZChris]

I've never interfered with pH either, but I've never seen it go that low. If I did, I would chuck a shell in it for insurance.

[still_stirrin]

It sounds like sitting down and relaxing is what i should do.

For a rice ferment, I have a suggestion; use a rice cooker to pre-cook the rice. It will gelatinize the grains which can then be mashed in the mash tun with the rest of the grains. The rice will be fluffy and white (just like you’d put on the table to eat) and it will mash just great with malted barley or even using gluco-amylase enzymes.

You don’t even need to mill the rice before hand.

Rice will add a slight “spicy” quality to the beer, so it would fit to supplement a rye addition. Rice would be complementary to wheat malt as that tends to taste a little “creamy”. Rice does make a good adjunct grain to supplement alcohol production.

If you prefer to use the yellow label yeasts, then pre-cooking the rice will work very well to convert to fermentable sugars.

So, all you “rice guys” try using a rice cooker for your rice. It works “a treat”.
ss

[john_bud]

It sounds like sitting down and relaxing is what i should do.

For a rice ferment, I have a suggestion; use a rice cooker to pre-cook the rice. It will gelatinize the grains which can then be mashed in the mash tun with the rest of the grains. The rice will be fluffy and white (just like you’d put on the table to eat) and it will mash just great with malted barley or even using gluco-amylase enzymes.

You don’t even need to mill the rice before hand.

Rice will add a slight “spicy” quality to the beer, so it would fit to supplement a rye addition. Rice would be complementary to wheat malt as that tends to taste a little “creamy”. Rice does make a good adjunct grain to supplement alcohol production.

If you prefer to use the yellow label yeasts, then pre-cooking the rice will work very well to convert to fermentable sugars.

So, all you “rice guys” try using a rice cooker for your rice. It works “a treat”.
ss

Well, i can't mash with the rest of the grains as rice was the only grain! Lol

Grinding the rice to a powder resulted in full conversion of the powder FAST. VERY little trube, just the larger un-powdered grain bits remain after 36 hours. I'll spend more effort in grinding (in a blender) next go round, that seems to be the way with YLAY

[NZChris]

My trial, using nearly boiling water and white rice straight out of the bag, finished in eight days with a very good yield.

[rubberduck71]

Sorry, i searched but couldn't find the answer

I did 7.5# short grain rice that i chopped in a blender (no mill). I made as much powder / flour as i could without letting all the magic smoke out of the blender. Added 4gal hot tap water pH 6.8 and pitched yellow lable (starter for liquor) Angel Yeast. In 24 hours at 98F, it reduced all the powder and left only the bigger chunks. Its still going. I taste tested a mash sample ( Sour!) !! Tested pH and its 3.6.

Is this "normal" for the yellow label stuff with rice?

Should i add something (like "tums" ?) to bring pH into a more yeast happy zone? Or just shut the lid and back away slowly...

Funny you bring this up. Like Saltbush said, normally you just chuck in the YLAY & get the F out of the way. HOWEVER, I started up a batch of 25# of Kokuho Rose (Costco) over Xmas break. Last time I used this rice, it made a delicious wine & also neutral (when "converted").

I'm normally diligent, but not "anal" about my sanitizing procedures, but I know I used StarSan on all my fermenter buckets. One of the 3 buckets (8# in each) developed a sulphury smell in the first 48 hrs of ferment. I then borrowed a 25 gal fermenter from a buddy, sterilized it, & transferred all 3 buckets into it. The sulphur was *VERY* slow to go away. I also noticed a drastic pH drop (sub-4, I believe), so I added some calcium carb & a mesh container of oyster shells hung over the lid.

I'm letting it "mellow" in my cool temp basement (~63F), hoping to clean it up. Last I peeked, it may have developed a lacto. Great for distilled flavors, but not so much for some wine I was hoping to hold back...

[Tōtōchtin]

Since you said your pH was 3.6 I assume you are using a pH meter. I would if you haven't,calibrate it before adding anything. They are notoriously known to fall out of calibration quickly.
Tōtō

[bilgriss]

It is pretty normal for a healthy ferment to end up very acidic. If there is no residual sugar, it's done, and no need to buffer. If it feels sticky between your fingers or has a sweetness behind the sour and yeast activity has all but stopped, buffering the pH might be needed. I've never pursued this path you are on exactly, so it's hard to give a more specific response.

[john_bud]

It is pretty normal for a healthy ferment to end up very acidic. If there is no residual sugar, it's done, and no need to buffer. If it feels sticky between your fingers or has a sweetness behind the sour and yeast activity has all but stopped, buffering the pH might be needed. I've never pursued this path you are on exactly, so it's hard to give a more specific response.

The ferment is certainly near the end BUT.... as long as some grains remain, the Yellow lable will convert starch to sugar. When i stirred it today, there weren't many grains left.

Unlike the corn mash in the bucket next to it. That is super slow going as i didnt pulzerize the "cracked" corn. It also didnt drop pH, staying around 4.5.

[john_bud]

Well...

That was UNSATISFACTORY!

I kept a heat wrap on the bucket to maintain the "optimum" mid 90's F temps. When stripping 4 &1/2 gal i got 2 qt with an averaged abv of 35% ! I tossed 50ml of foreshot, checked abv... 40% ! Wtf?

Im guessing i let it ferment too long and the eth evaporated. Sigh, oh well, it was a learning experience. There is a new batch going, with 10# rice that was added to boiling water and left covered for 90 min. Then added to the prior batch trube and cold water added as the hot cooked rice was added to maintain mid-90F temps. A bit of fresh yellow lable mixed in and overnight it went to active bubbles.

Oh this is just put into an insulated box, no extra heat. Its self maintains 93F in a 50F room.

We shall see how V2 turns out

[NZChris]

Did you do a starch test on the trub?

[shadylane]

Im guessing i let it ferment too long and the eth evaporated.

No, something else was wrong.

[john_bud]

Did you do a starch test on the trub?

Yes. Orange color

[john_bud]

Im guessing i let it ferment too long and the eth evaporated.

No, something else was wrong.

Any thoughts on what else i may have goofed on?

I had taste tested the mash when it initially quieted down and it seemed high in abv (guessing 7-8% by taste). But... i AM a newb! Lol. Looking to learn

[Bee]

How critical is temperature when using YLAY?

[NormandieStill]

According to the manufacturers, fairly. They recommend that the temp be held at 32C (IIRC). That being said, I've had great success with starting it out at 32C and letting it drop naturally to around 20C (takes about 2-3 days in our house which generally sits at 20C +/- 1C). I let the ferments run their course and settle out naturally before distilling and I get good clean ferments from them. I don't have temperature control yet so I can't say if this method is better or worse than following their recommendation. I suspect it's probably slower!

[MooseMan]

How critical is temperature when using YLAY?

I use electric blankets and reflectix wrapped around my fermenters to keep them at 32°c and the YLAY absolutely charges through 10kgs of flaked corn in a week.

I've not let them run cooler like norm does, but I suspect that the enzymatic part of the process is what needs the higher temps Bee, so if the primary starch conversion is happening early on, that would fit his experience with it gradually cooling down as the exothermic activity reduces.

[NormandieStill]

Yeah. My ferments tend to run closer to 2 months!

[MooseMan]

Yeah. My ferments tend to run closer to 2 months!

Well, nothing happens very bloody fast in France does it!?