Mash tun / stripping still

[Bolverk]

Howdy all,

Heres a little project I've been working on.

So this started out with the intent to be a direct steam injection mash tun but I realized that could just as easily make it a mash tun and a stripping still.

the steam generator:
4500w element in a 2" tube, auto fed and kept topped of via an analog float valve. The thing that's going to be confusing that there is an orifice plate (plate with one hole in the center) separating the water feed chamber and the direct steam path. This is to equalize the pressure between the two.

There is a 1 bar (15psi) prv in the stem path.

Steam will feed into a 2" to 1" reducer that will feed down into the bottom of the keg and heat/agitate the mash/beer as it blows through the educator nozzle (venturi).

The keg has a 4" column/riser port and 6" access port.

(The other port on the keg, opposite of the steam port will be for a future spike flow pump so i can recirculate the mash from the bottom of the tun)

I still need a few more parts but this should hopefully be up and running soon.

[Dancing4dan]

Look forward to seeing how this works out for you.

Do you plan to mash, ferment and distill all in same vessel?

[Bolverk]

Thanks, im prety stoked, I'd done mostly rum, so it's exciting to branch out into AG whiskey.

I had considered fermenting in it, but it'll depend on if I have another batch planned or not. If I don't have a second one lined up, I may just leave it in there.

[tjsc5f]

Slick! Is that sight glass and tee that houses the float valve 4"? Can you share the part number source for the float valve?

What are you using for the orifice plate, just a piece of PTFE plate?

[Bolverk]

Slick! Is that sight glass and tee that houses the float valve 4"? Can you share the part number source for the float valve?

What are you using for the orifice plate, just a piece of PTFE plate?

Thanks!

Yeah, it is a 4" tee with a 2" side and 4" sight glass below. A 3" would have worked, but I had the 4" parts on hand.

Float
MEUPMEOP 1/2'' Automatic Water Level Control Valve Auto Shut Off Ball Mini Float Valve 304 Stainless Steel Float Valve https://a.co/d/2HqLVqz

Orifice plate
https://www.ebay.com/itm/151421059279?m ... media=COPY

[tjsc5f]

Awesome, keep us posted on the progress and if you run into any issues.
Something like this is on the top of my list once we get moved to our new house.
I think I have all of those tri clamp fittings as well, will just need to order the valve and orifice plate when the time comes

[Bolverk]

Will do!
All I'm waiting on its a few clamps and butterfly valve for drain.

Next mod after that is converting my 30l keg still into a thumper/doubler so I can either do thumper straight of the grain in the boiler or collect those low wine close some vales and distill a second time.

Basically making a hillbilly version of this lol (if this thumper had an element as well)

[tjsc5f]

I had considered fermenting in it, but it'll depend on if I have another batch planned or not. If I don't have a second one lined up, I may just leave it in there.

If you do ferment in it, take your steam wand out - it can get clogged up with the grain easily and cause you issues when you go to fire up your steam (unless you want to verify that your PRV works...)

[tjsc5f]

Next mod after that is converting my 30l keg still into a thumper/doubler so I can either do thumper straight of the grain in the boiler or collect those low wine close some vales and distill a second time.

Basically making a hillbilly version of this lol (if this thumper had an element as well)

The more I mess around with different configurations, the more I lean toward having a dedicated steam stripper and a separate low wines boiler with the column configured for whatever I'm making. I'm too paranoid about overfilling my thump keg if trying to do one and dones with plates and reflux, so I end up doing half sized runs, and then having to do multiples to fill a badmo or whatever (defeats the purpose of doing one and dones in this fashion).

[Bolverk]

If you do ferment in it, take your steam wand out - it can get clogged up with the grain easily and cause you issues when you go to fire up your steam (unless you want to verify that your PRV works...)

Will do

[Bolverk]

The more I mess around with different configurations, the more I lean toward having a dedicated steam stripper and a separate low wines boiler with the column configured for whatever I'm making. I'm too paranoid about overfilling my thump keg if trying to do one and dones with plates and reflux, so I end up doing half sized runs, and then having to do multiples to fill a badmo or whatever (defeats the purpose of doing one and dones in this fashion).

Understood, I'm limited on space so having 2 stills basically sharing a condenser saves me some room... and will be incredibly versatile.

That's hard to do if you size appropriately. I know "they" say 1/3-1/2 your boiler size, but if you go by (AA x 5) + your thumper charge it would be virtually impossible to over fill in any reasonable situation. Ei: with 10g of 8% beer and 1g of thumper juice so (10x.08x5)+1=5 gallons of needed capacity. In this case it's 1/2 your boiler charge.

[tjsc5f]

Yeah, it is a 4" tee with a 2" side and 4" sight glass below. A 3" would have worked, but I had the 4" parts on hand.

What kind of fitting/piping setup did you do here to connect your water inlet valve to your float valve through the 2" triclamp adapter?

[Bolverk]

From the top down

2" Tri-Clamp x 1/2" Female NPT on both ends Adapter 64mm OD Sanitary Stainless Steel 304 Homebrew Clover Fitting
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mqZhpIS

8" ss 1/2" pipe male/male
1/2 female to female coupler
Float valve

[Yummyrum]

Impressive setup Bolverk
Is that braided hose anything special , high pressure maybe ?...it justs looks different to your normal Big box store Braided hose

[Bolverk]

Impressive setup Bolverk
Is that braided hose anything special , high pressure maybe ?...it justs looks different to your normal Big box store Braided hose

Thanks

Haha yeah, high pressure high temp.... it's probably over kill but I didn't want to take any chances

[zach]

I like the design. Compact and simple. The float valve is isolated enough that it will likely stay below that max temp.(100C)

The make up water flow rate is small, 5.5 kw roughly translates to 2.6 gallons per hour. You might need a needle valve or a pressure regulator upstream of the float valve, otherwise boiling will stop each time the valve opens. Maybe you can route condenser outlet water for make up to the valve, but it looks like the valve needs 10 psi to open,

I am mashing, fermenting and distilling in milk cans now with steam. I am looking at an agitator mounted on a tri clamp, as I am tired of running a drill with a paddle when mashing. You might keep this in mind, with your steam injector and leave clearance for an agitator.

I have a valve that I open when I shut down the steam generator to prevent sucking mash back into the injector.

My vacuum break opens at 1/2 psi so it sucks when I forget.

[Tōtōchtin]

Hola,
Did you find an educator that works well at 2 psi?
Tōtō

[Bolverk]

Thanks Zack,

Best I can figure is 4500w will transfer 190ml of water per min or 3gph, in the 2-2.5 hours it will take to heat up and strip the boiler I should loose 4.8g in volume in low wines. So I'm definitely cutting it a little close.

Im a little worried about the pressures needed to make to float work. Worst case I'll take it out and put on a needle valve and free feed it.

The water reservoir feeds into the boiler tube via the 1/2 braided 6 I'm hoping it will have a slow steady feed.


Toto

This is the educator
https://www.ebay.com/itm/385193541896?m ... media=COPY

It's advertised working pressure is .1 mpa (14psi) so I dont know how well it will actually work... Worst case I'll abandon it and make a steam wand.

[tjsc5f]

This is the educator
https://www.ebay.com/itm/385193541896?m ... media=COPY

The things you learn about on the HD forum that you never knew existed!
So the ebay listing show's that pressure as "max working pressure". After looking around at some other data sheets, that doesn't seem accurate.
I found this spec sheet on Aliexpress:

It doesn't really give all of the needed details, but it does say it's a "liquid mixing nozzle", so my guess is the data in the table would be accurate if the inlet flow and mixing medium were both liquids.
Your inlet flow "A" would be around 200L/min of steam @ 4500W. Looks like you can get those nozzles from 1/4" all the way up to 1-1/2", so may take some experimenting.
My current steam wand is 3/4", so maybe I'll pick up a 3/4" version to test

[Bolverk]

Thanks tjsc5f, I remember doing on the research I could when I got it (like a year ago... yeah I've been play with the idea for a while), but when I replied earlier I was at work, and kinda rush through the reply... thanks for looking all that up.

My only real hope was to keep the beer moving around little. Full venturi type action would be a plus.

[tjsc5f]

Thanks tjsc5f, I remember doing on the research I could when I got it (like a year ago... yeah I've been play with idea for a while)
but when I replied earlier I was at work, and kinda rush through the reply... thanks for looking all that up.

My only real hope was to keep the beer moving around little. Full venturi type action would be a plus.

Been trying to find more/better info on it. Another website I found had sizing info and was basing everything on steam pressure required.
For example, after running through their selection process, If you wanted to heat 13 gallons of water from 72°F to 212°F in 30 minutes, you'd need a 5PSI steam supply with their 3/8" unit. 10PSI would get it done in ~15 minutes

[Bolverk]

Been trying to find more/better info on it. Another website I found had sizing info and was basing everything on steam pressure required.
For example, after running through their selection process, If you wanted to heat 13 gallons of water from 72°F to 212°F in 30 minutes, you'd need a 5PSI steam supply with their 3/8" unit. 10PSI would get it done in ~15 minutes
image.png

I'd be interested in that link, if you would mind sharing it...
I always run my water heating calcs from 70-190, (room temp - approx when hearts start coming over.

I'm not surprised, everything I've read on direct steam says it works far better, plus its supposed to carrying over a lot more flavor from the beer/wash.

[tjsc5f]

I'd be interested in that link, if you would mind sharing it...

https://www.s-k.com/wp-content/uploads/ ... ochure.pdf

What I got out of that for this particular use case is that - your 4500W heater would not be able to generate the 5PSI of steam required to run their 3/8 nozzle within it's designed operating range. At 4500W, you could boil the 13gal in ~60minutes, which is 0.25lb/min and not on their chart. Not saying it would do nothing, just outside of it's optimal range. This particular vendor doesn't have a 1/4" option, but the 1/4" off of aliexpress may be sized more appropriately for our 4500-5500W elements.

[Bolverk]

I'd be interested in that link, if you would mind sharing it...

https://www.s-k.com/wp-content/uploads/ ... ochure.pdf

What I got out of that for this particular use case is that - your 4500W heater would not be able to generate the 5PSI of steam required to run their 3/8 nozzle within it's designed operating range. At 4500W, you could boil the 13gal in ~60minutes, which is 0.25lb/min and not on their chart. Not saying it would do nothing, just outside of it's optimal range. This particular vendor doesn't have a 1/4" option, but the 1/4" off of aliexpress may be sized more appropriately for our 4500-5500W elements.

Thanks!
Can you share the link the the 1/4" one?
I'll try this one I have and if it doesn't work I'll get the smaller one

[tjsc5f]

Can you share the link the the 1/4" one?

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/32568048 ... ry_from%3A

[Bolverk]

Can you share the link the the 1/4" one?

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/32568048 ... ry_from%3A

Thank you!

[Tōtōchtin]

Bolverk,
Please get back if you find one that works with low pressure. I don't trust my attention span and short term memory to go over 3psi. I see the value in throttling back to increase pressure, but I just can't....
I bought a bag of 3/4" high temp silicone caps to try. I like the idea of being able to put them were I want and have the ability to change opening size. I hope this system will work well with cooking corn in 200 liter container. I'll have no clue until I can complete my system though.
Tōtō

[Bolverk]

Will do!

[tjsc5f]

Im a little worried about the pressures needed to make to float work. Worst case I'll take it out and put on a needle valve and free feed it.

It says it works with 10-150PSI. I don't know how you're planning on feeding it, but most modern home water systems are in the 50-90PSI range.
If you're planning on running a pump from a reservoir, something like this should do just fine
https://a.co/d/6D0PXTZ

[Bolverk]

Thanks, yeah I think I have this solved.

So, I'll pulling water off my tap, from there it will go to a tee
one leg will feed the float
the other will go over to the product condenser.
As long as I put a valve on the condenser feed it should have enough pressure in the lines to make sure the float will work.

The reason I said I was a little worried is because I'm skeptical of everything until I verify lol