Final gravity reading issue with sugarwash

[HelloPeeps]

Hi, I'm on my second sugarwash as I'm making vodka (the first came out fine but sacrificed) but on this second wash I'm getting a crazy high hydrometer reading of 4.5 I'm struggling to find out what's wrong, especially since my mash appears to be or has fermented.

This was my formula...
White sugar - 4.5KG
Water - 12.5L
Yeast - Lalvin EC-1118 Yeast - 10G (It's a white wine yeast, I saw on here it's good for vodka, I hydrated the yeast first)
Yeast nutrients - Young's - 4 tea spoons
I didn't write down the PH but the colours appeared within the okay level
Initial gravity - specific gravity hydrometer - 1.107 (Calibrated to 20c / 68f)
I started fermenting 27 Jan 24 and bubbles started to appear pretty quickly, we are now 3 weeks later and the bubbles are still coming through the airlock on the carboys.
Hydrometer reading at the calibrated 20c / 68f - 4.5. 17th Feb 24.

I've tried shaking the car boy and taking a new sample but still get a similar rating.

I presumed the air coming out of the carboy was just off-gasing since I left it fermenting for 3 weeks, i've kept the carboys in my kitchen with the underfloor heating on (I will get a better/cheaper solution!) at around 12c - 15c.

I'm a bit stumped of the issue and can't really tell if it's still fermenting or offgasing. I've left it to ferment longer and put the temperature upto 18c to see what happens.

Any suggestions or ideas?

[GrumbleStill]

It’s probably still fermenting. 1118 is known for reliability and clean finish, not so much a quick ferment. This is especially the case when you’re fermenting near the bottom of it’s range at 12°C. If it’s still bubbling, and the gravity is reducing, it’s still going.

An OG that high probably won’t help your cause either. That much sugar can stress the yeast in the early stages of fermentation, leading to an inferior final product. Personally I’d be using closer to 20L water for your 4.5kg sugar.

Might be worth your while checking out the tried and true recipe section for a good sugar wash (“mash” = grain)

Cheers

[MooseMan]

A couple of obvious issues pop out at me.

Your SG is way too high. Try to keep it below 1075 as a habit.

Your temp is too low, I'd say that yeast will be much happier at mid 20s.

Basically you're stressing the yeast and they are very unhappy.

One way to save the day would be to split that ferment over 2 vessels, add a few litres of water to each, a handful of breakfast flakes (Any will do) and pitch fresh yeast into both.

[still_stirrin]

Initial gravity - specific gravity hydrometer - 1.107

High OG for a (good) ferment. Starting that high will challenge the yeast. At least you rehydrated the dry yeast before pitching. And the Lalvin EC-1118 is a slow fermenter as noted. I would expect ferments with an OG that high to take a couple of months to finish even if the proper temperature was managed throughout.

One thing that is critical for a healthy ferment is aeration/oxygenation of the wash/wort prior to pitching yeast. The yeast needs oxygen during the 1st phase of its lifecycle to reproduce (called “budding”). But once it has produced the needed cell population for latent fermentation, it is anaerobic and does NOT need oxygen.

Hydrometer reading at the calibrated 20c / 68f - 4.5. 17th Feb 24.

That number (4.5) doesn’t makes sense. Ferment hydrometers don’t even have a scale that high and the gravity would never go up. If you’re reporting the “potential” alcohol or even brix (if a triple scale hydrometer) it still doesn’t make sense.

Your final gravity, specific gravity near or at fermentation termination should be around unity (1.000). It may be below 1.000, ie - 0.995 or so due to the amount of alcohol in the wash at the end because the density (g/ml) of alcohol is less than that of water. This is especially possible because of your OG. Again, flocculation (when the yeast is finished fermentation) will naturally occur and the yeast settle as the wash “clears”. But that will take a couple of months, or more, considering your OG. Just wait (“patience is the hardest thing to bottle”).

So, your original question is impossible to answer because what you’re asking does not make sense.
ss

[Yummyrum]

I’d also agree with whats been said .
Start gravity too high , fermentation temp too low

But like SS , I’m questioning what 4.5 means ?

I'm guessing it’s 1.0045 …..but then again? If its 1.045 , thats a whole different matter .

As a general rule we would suggest no more than 4kg sugar per 23l wash …..otherwise you stress yeast and just make yucky booze .

Notice I said wash . When we are fermenting sugar or sugar derived things like molasses or sugar cane juice , it’s called a wash .

When you get a bunch of grains that are basically starch and heat them to about 60°C and add some Enzyme's or malted Barley , that is known as mashing . It converts the starches to sugars .

Pedantic it may seem but it helps to get your terminology right so folk understand what you are trying to say .

[howie]

have a look at the specs for ec-1118
temp range 10°C- 26°C (your temp 12°C)
alcohol tolerance up to 18% (your ABV 15%)
so you're pushing the boundaries on both counts.
as said previous, i use about 4.5Kg sugar for a 25L wash

[Pure Old Possum Piss]

I agree with the previous post. You're trying to ferment a sugar syrup. Nearly 10 lbs sugar to 3 gals water? Using a super slow wine yeast? In winter?
Go to 2 lbs sugar per gal water, and just use some red star or Fleishman s yeast. Yeast won't make a difference in flavor if you're making vodka, but it will work off a bit quicker. And aerate the hell out of it the first 2-3 days after pitching yeast. Yeast needs O2 during the start to multiply.
PS since you're new to it all, try Bird Watcher's for vodka or maybe Uncle Jesse's if you want bit of grain flavor.
And split what you got now into 2 buckets, add some more water. Otherwise it might still be bubbling come summer! Lol

[HelloPeeps]

Thanks all, I added more water, pitched some bakers yeast, fermented to below 1 and distilled it yesterday and it came out fine, not sure why I added so little water, looking at my notes from my last sugarwash the ratio I have no idea why this time I used so little. I'll try Bird Watches recipe next time and going to scrap the Lalvin EC-1118 pouch I have leftover...saw on here somewhere it is good for vodka but it was bad for the sugarwash and the all grain wash I also had fermenting (I had to add some bakers yeast to speed that one up, fermented fine, just need to distil that)

I'm trying to perfect a all-grain vodka recipe as I want to try make something comparable to Grey Goose, although for them it's all in the grains so I'm trying to find some high quality French grains...but still in the early stages of reaching grains.

Thanks everyone.

[NZChris]

Don’t scrap the 1118, someone might offer you free fruit.

[Saltbush Bill]

Divide the washes between a couple of fermenting containers, add water to dilute the sugar content.
You'll have more and a happier wash.

[howie]

Thanks all, I added more water, pitched some bakers yeast, fermented to below 1 and distilled it yesterday and it came out fine, not sure why I added so little water, looking at my notes from my last sugarwash the ratio I have no idea why this time I used so little. I'll try Bird Watches recipe next time and going to scrap the Lalvin EC-1118 pouch I have leftover...saw on here somewhere it is good for vodka but it was bad for the sugarwash and the all grain wash I also had fermenting (I had to add some bakers yeast to speed that one up, fermented fine, just need to distil that)

I'm trying to perfect a all-grain vodka recipe as I want to try make something comparable to Grey Goose, although for them it's all in the grains so I'm trying to find some high quality French grains...but still in the early stages of reaching grains.

Thanks everyone.

i've been trying to copy grey goose also.
from memory, they use wheat from a specific area (which they might own?) and use water from a particular area.
i have been dabbling with unmalted wheat and produced an 100% AG wheat vodka in january.
just waiting to catch up with a couple of vodka lovers for a taste test (or taste fest?)

[GrumbleStill]

Thanks all, I added more water, pitched some bakers yeast, fermented to below 1 and distilled it yesterday and it came out fine, not sure why I added so little water, looking at my notes from my last sugarwash the ratio I have no idea why this time I used so little. I'll try Bird Watches recipe next time and going to scrap the Lalvin EC-1118 pouch I have leftover...saw on here somewhere it is good for vodka but it was bad for the sugarwash and the all grain wash I also had fermenting (I had to add some bakers yeast to speed that one up, fermented fine, just need to distil that)

I'm trying to perfect a all-grain vodka recipe as I want to try make something comparable to Grey Goose, although for them it's all in the grains so I'm trying to find some high quality French grains...but still in the early stages of reaching grains.

Thanks everyone.

i've been trying to copy grey goose also.
from memory, they use wheat from a specific area (which they might own?) and use water from a particular area.
i have been dabbling with unmalted wheat and produced an 100% AG wheat vodka in january.
just waiting to catch up with a couple of vodka lovers for a taste test (or taste fest?)

Good to see that you got your issue resolved HelloPeeps.

Looking forward to reading more about the quest to clone a Grey Goose at hobby scale. A lot gets mentioned about their wheat and water, less so about the five separate columns, each with an individual setup. I wouldn’t be surprised if that rig has as much to do with the end result as the mash bill.

Cheers

[howie]

lol i i might struggle to replicate their distillation with a 2" CM
i did a strip and reflux run on my first try.
if i do another, i might try a strip and normal flavour spirit run .
i did find this video that goes through the process, including the 5 x columns.
the last column is 'interesting', the demethylation column?
[url]]

[NormandieStill]

Grey Goose is made in Picardie which is a little to the north of where I am. If you want to replicate the "terroir" then both your grains and water need to be from a high calcium area. As with Normandy it's a high chalk area. If I boil a saucepan of water here and let it cool I get a very visible layer of chalk at the bottom of the pan.

But with the exception of the proofing down, I'd be surprised if the subtle flavour differences really carry through their 5 columns!