JP’s year long CCVM build

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JollyPirate
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JP’s year long CCVM build

Post by JollyPirate »

Hey folks! After a year of scrapping around, finding deals, making new friends, and probing the depths of this immensely helpful community, my CCVM is complete (ok ok I haven’t packed the column yet but I gotta get this thing making liquor or I’m gonna go crazy). Here’s the build…

The boiler:
I’ve got a converted 15.5 gallon keg with a 4” fill port, 1.5” ball gate valve drain, and 1.5” ferrule for the heating element. A buddy who works in a fabricating shop was pretty stoked about the project and had it all welded up for free.

The riser:
In the picture, I’ve got it setup in potstill mode - I wanted to get the, admittedly unwieldy, Liebig high enough off the ground to run it sitting on the floor; so I’ve got a 20” riser for potstill mode. Having done a vinegar run I’m thinking I’ll shorten it to reduce some of the heating time. Plus this little cart gets it off the ground to a comfortable working height.

The column (not pictured):
The 2” column is 4 feet tall. I haven’t packed it yet, but I’m thinking ss scrubbies fit my current budget. I’ve read enough to know I don’t know enough about the pros and cons of different packing materials and the ROI associated with each. Hopefully, I can make a purchase decision in the next week.

The condenser:
The Liebig is 5 feet of 3/4” over 1/2” with a spiral of 12 gauge wire in the jacket. I’ve got a valve on the upper (outlet) of the condenser to limit my flow and on the inlet supply at the faucet. Having run the still, I’m realizing it’s underpowered for the wattage on my element. So I’ll be running on lower power until I can upgrade (maybe convert the pot still riser into a shotgun down the road). We live right by the water treatment plant and the water which comes from an especially cold river (40F from the tap right know) so I don’t think it will perform as well as it does currently when the weather warms.

Power:
I’ve got a 5500 watt element wired up to a controller I built off of cranky’s super simple controller design. It works fantastically. Even for my woefully inadequate knowledge of electronics, the build was simple and does a great job.

Challenges (this forum helped me with):
I lucked into a substantial amount of free 2” copper. As it was type L, I had to do some work to widen it enough for the ferrules. I received several recommendations and tried two — a tungsten bit on a dremel and annealing. I found that annealing the ferrule was ultimately simpler and got a nice tight fit which was ample enough for the solder be drawn

Attaching the heating element — I was mislead by a banned YouTuber (read the ban list folks, it’s there for a reason) who indicated I could use a tap and die to thread the keg wall and insert a threaded element directly. Not only was it a ton of work for me to track down a tap and die set that big, THE KEG WALL ISNT CLOSE TO THICK ENOUGH TO CREATE A WATER TIGHT SEAL. There’s not enough ptfe tape in the world to fix it. Ultimately, welding a threaded ferrule on side was a much better choice.

Soldering the ss ferrules to copper—Ultimately my oatey paste flux was insufficient to prepare the ss. I switched to Ruby fluid, and hot dog, that stuff did the trick.

Considerations:
I’m not sure the CCVM is the right build for me or not. Truthfully, when I began my research, this was the first build I encountered that was heavily recommended. So I that’s what I decided to do. In hindsight, I wonder if a standard VM design will be a better choice. Time will tell. My ultimate goal is to create an Appalachian gin with local botanicals so I want to fine tune my reflux abilities in the future. For now, this will be more than sufficient to learn and drink on.

I’ve got a 15gal ferment of UJSSM that’s a couple days out from finished. Wish me luck on the sacrificial run! Image
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Last edited by JollyPirate on Sun Mar 03, 2024 5:47 am, edited 2 times in total.
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MooseMan
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Re: JP’s year long CCVM build

Post by MooseMan »

JollyPirate wrote: Sat Mar 02, 2024 1:19 pm Hey folks! After a year of scrapping around, finding deals, making new friends, and probing the depths of this immensely helpful community, my CCVM is complete (ok ok I haven’t packed the column yet but I gotta get this thing making liquor or I’m gonna go crazy). Here’s the build…

The boiler:
I’ve got a converted 15.5 gallon keg with a 4” fill port, 1.5” ball gate valve drain, and 1.5” ferrule for the heating element. A buddy who works in a fabricating shop was pretty stoked about the project and had it all welded up for free.

The riser:
In the picture, I’ve got it setup in potstill mode - I wanted to get the, admittedly unwieldy, Liebig high enough off the ground to run it sitting on the floor; so I’ve got a 20” riser for potstill mode. Having done a vinegar run I’m thinking I’ll shorten it to reduce some of the heating time. Plus this little cart gets it off the ground to a comfortable working height.
A shorter riser won't affect heat up time at all really, but can make puking more common during strips

The column (not pictured):
The 2” column is 4 feet tall. I haven’t packed it yet, but I’m thinking ss scrubbies fit my current budget. I’ve read enough to know I don’t know enough about the pros and cons of different packing materials and the ROI associated with each. Hopefully, I can make a purchase decision in the next week.
SS scrubbies will be fine, but try to get a couple of copper ones in there too if you can

The condenser:
The Liebig is 5 feet of 3/4” over 1/2” with a spiral of 12 gauge wire in the jacket. I’ve got a valve on the upper (outlet) of the condenser to limit my flow and on the inlet supply at the faucet. Having run the still, I’m realizing it’s underpowered for the wattage on my element. So I’ll be running on lower power until I can upgrade (maybe convert the pot still riser into a shotgun down the road). We live right by the water treatment plant and the water which comes from an especially cold river (40F from the tap right know) so I don’t think it will perform as well as it does currently when the weather warms.
No way should 5ft of Liebig be overwhelmed by 5500 watts, 1" over 3/4" would be better, but that should still readily cope, with a decent cold water flow

Power:
I’ve got a 5500 watt element wired up to a controller I built off of cranky’s super simple controller design. It works fantastically. Even for my woefully inadequate knowledge of electronics, the build was simple and does a great job.

Challenges (this forum helped me with):
I lucked into a substantial amount of free 2” copper. As it was type L, I had to do some work to widen it enough for the ferrules. I received several recommendations and tried two — a tungsten bit on a dremel and annealing. I found that annealing the ferrule was ultimately simpler and got a nice tight fit which was ample enough for the solder be drawn

Attaching the heating element — I was mislead by a banned YouTuber (read the ban list folks, it’s there for a reason) who indicated I could use a tap and die to the thread the keg wall and insert a threaded element directly. Not only was it a ton of work for me to track down a tap and die set that big, THE KEG WALL ISNT CLOSE TO THICK ENOUGH TO CREATE A WATER TIGHT SEAL. There’s not enough ptfe tape in the world to fix it. Ultimately, welding a threaded ferrule on side was a much better choice.

Soldering the ss ferrules to copper—Ultimately my oatey paste flux was insufficient to prepare the ss. I switched to Ruby fluid, and hot dog, that stuff did the trick.

Considerations:
I’m not sure the CCVM is the right build for me or not. Truthfully, when I began my research, this was the first build I encountered that was heavily recommended. So I that’s what I decided to do. In hindsight, I wonder if a standard VM design will be a better choice. Time will tell. My ultimate goal is to create an Appalachian gin with local botanicals so I want to fine tune my reflux abilities in the future. For now, this will be more than sufficient to learn and drink on.
I think you chose well for a still with gin in mind, a CCVM makes great neutral. You might want to build a small pot still to run and perfect your gin batches down the line though

I’ve got a 15gal ferment of UJSSM that’s a couple days out from finished. Wish me luck one the sacrificial run! Image
JollyPirate great job!

This setup will serve you very well I'm sure.

I've added a couple of comments to the main body of your post above.
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Re: JP’s year long CCVM build

Post by greggn »

JollyPirate wrote: Sat Mar 02, 2024 1:19 pm
I’m not sure the CCVM is the right build for me or not. I wonder if a standard VM design will be a better choice.

It's a short path from CCVM to VM.
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Re: JP’s year long CCVM build

Post by The Booze Pipe »

Some folks love their CCVM, which is great it works for them. It kind of comes down to budget, and ceiling height. You need a column tall enough to get to neutral, or azeotrope, and still enough space to adjust the reflux condenser. Some CSST makes a very effective and very cheap reflux condenser.
I built a CCVM but I am converting it to a regular vapor management. I now have a low ceiling height, and the CSST I coiled up doesn’t do a very good job of sliding. Plus those stainless steel gate valves are cheap now. They used be a couple hundred bucks.
Either direction you go you’ll make it work for yourself.
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26g 4" stripping still
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Re: JP’s year long CCVM build

Post by MarkChap »

Well done, I have just got mine together as well, though it hasn't taken 12 months.
After doing my very first reflux run today, I am questioning the whole bloody idea at the moment, but that is another story
I'm just here to make mistakes and feed the ego's of the haters,
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Re: JP’s year long CCVM build

Post by JollyPirate »

MooseMan wrote: Sat Mar 02, 2024 4:52 pm
I've added a couple of comments to the main body of your post above.
Good feedback, Mooseman. I just finished the sacrificial run and you’re right, seems like we have more than enough Liebig for the job. The size and space issue might be a problem, but the condenser was knocking down 5500w without problems!

I’m curious about your comment about the shorter riser. I understand what you mean about puking, but why wouldn’t a shorter riser mean less cool material for vapor to lose heat to at the beginning of a run? Seems like there’s some inherent heat transfer just by having a longer distance to travel across cool copper pipe.

(It may be a moot point considering how quickly the rig started producing product ~ 15minutes)
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Re: JP’s year long CCVM build

Post by JollyPirate »

MarkChap wrote: Sun Mar 03, 2024 12:49 am Well done, I have just got mine together as well, though it hasn't taken 12 months.
I commend your speed, Mark! I just looked at your build and it looks great. I’m curious to hear how you enjoy it. I think I’m mostly just concerned about fiddling with the coil. Seems like there’s more room for user error.
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Re: JP’s year long CCVM build

Post by JollyPirate »

The Booze Pipe wrote: Sat Mar 02, 2024 7:51 pm I built a CCVM but I am converting it to a regular vapor management. I now have a low ceiling height, and the CSST I coiled up doesn’t do a very good job of sliding. Plus those stainless steel gate valves are cheap now. They used be a couple hundred bucks.
Either direction you go you’ll make it work for yourself.
That’s what I’ve been curious about. Seems like some users are able to slide them and set them without too much trouble. I’m sure there’s some secret sauce to it somewhere on this site
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Re: JP’s year long CCVM build

Post by Sporacle »

JP, sometimes the secret sauce is not overthinking.
Patience when learning to run a CCVM is important, you need to make incremental adjustments and allow for the still to react.
They really are a simple bit of kit that doesn't require a great deal of input once you have your markers set
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Re: JP’s year long CCVM build

Post by Salt Must Flow »

The criticism of the height of a riser with a pot still regarding "puking" comes from the potential foaming of the contents within the boiler. If the boiler's contents do foam then the foam would have more potential to exit the product condenser with a shorter riser than with a taller riser. So the contents of the boiler is the biggest concern rather than the height of the riser. People can use anti-foamers to combat foaming like cooking oils, butter, etc... Riser height is not as significant of an issue. Also power input is a variable regarding foaming.

With a CCVM you have to raise and lower the reflux condenser to adjust your take-off rate. That would mean that you would obviously have to have either a slightly taller ceiling or a slightly shorter column to operate it. This is a fact because in order to operate a CCVM, you have to raise the reflux condenser.

With a VM the reflux condenser remains fixed in place so your only limit is the height of the ceiling. You adjust the take-off rate by simply opening a valve. Ideally a gate valve because the knobs have 8 different points to reference to per a single rotation. Compare turning a precise knob to raising the reflux condenser and jamming something into it to hold it precisely into place. Personally I'd rather turn a valve more precisely and repeatedly than fiddling with my reflux condenser. Overall cost is not a consideration because the cost difference is not considerable.
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Re: JP’s year long CCVM build

Post by Sporacle »

Salt Must Flow wrote: Sun Mar 03, 2024 9:06 pm Compare turning a precise knob to raising the reflux condenser and jamming something into it to hold it precisely into place. Personally I'd rather turn a valve more precisely and repeatedly than fiddling with my reflux condenser.
I'm not trying to be argumentative, just pointing out that the majority of people who run their CCVM efficiently very rarely move their RC outside of their set marks and it certainly isn't constant fiddling in my case.
If the water flow is constant then the adjustments provided by the RC are very precise.
Moving the RC is the same as turning a valve.
I understand that they are not everyones cup of tea, but used correctly they produce a great product with a minimum of fuss.
I think if you are constantly having to make adjustments to your still then something is not right. :thumbup:
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Re: JP’s year long CCVM build

Post by MooseMan »

JollyPirate wrote: Sun Mar 03, 2024 7:11 pm
MooseMan wrote: Sat Mar 02, 2024 4:52 pm
I've added a couple of comments to the main body of your post above.
Good feedback, Mooseman. I just finished the sacrificial run and you’re right, seems like we have more than enough Liebig for the job. The size and space issue might be a problem, but the condenser was knocking down 5500w without problems!

I’m curious about your comment about the shorter riser. I understand what you mean about puking, but why wouldn’t a shorter riser mean less cool material for vapor to lose heat to at the beginning of a run? Seems like there’s some inherent heat transfer just by having a longer distance to travel across cool copper pipe.

(It may be a moot point considering how quickly the rig started producing product ~ 15minutes)
Glad to hear the Liebig performed as it should.

You are correct in theory, the longer riser will take longer to heat up so you'll get a tiny bit of passive reflux at the start, (Which is good) but in practice it's so little that it's not worth bothering about. I'd still insulate it for stripping runs though.

And I haven't seen your reflux condenser but if it's a copper coil like mine, a simple way to hold it in the desired position is with a flat but of copper slid in between the coils.
You'll need to run it to learn the sweet spots, but you'll only really need 3 positions.
Once you dial in a CCVM, it almost runs itself.

Have a read through all the input from the seasoned pros in my thread "Chasing the last 2-3%" you should learn from it, I did.
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Re: JP’s year long CCVM build

Post by Salt Must Flow »

Sporacle wrote: Sun Mar 03, 2024 9:56 pm
Salt Must Flow wrote: Sun Mar 03, 2024 9:06 pm Compare turning a precise knob to raising the reflux condenser and jamming something into it to hold it precisely into place. Personally I'd rather turn a valve more precisely and repeatedly than fiddling with my reflux condenser.
I'm not trying to be argumentative, just pointing out that the majority of people who run their CCVM efficiently very rarely move their RC outside of their set marks and it certainly isn't constant fiddling in my case.
If the water flow is constant then the adjustments provided by the RC are very precise.
Moving the RC is the same as turning a valve.
I understand that they are not everyones cup of tea, but used correctly they produce a great product with a minimum of fuss.
I think if you are constantly having to make adjustments to your still then something is not right. :thumbup:
Where are you getting "constant" from? I never said "constantly". I said 'fiddle'. I'd rather turn a precise knob than 'fiddle' with raising & lowering the reflux condenser. That is all I said.
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Re: JP’s year long CCVM build

Post by Sporacle »

:thumbup: I was replying to your post and trying to say that the RC is precise and the "constant" comment was a broader one aimed at the people who can't stop moving their RC.
Probably shouldn't have quoted you.
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