Phytase in yellow label

[Oystercracker123]

So I’m trying to wrap my head around how yellow label is working. Specifically if it is fermenting anything more than what might be fermented in a “normal” enzyme mash. Reading the package I noticed alpha amylase and beta gluconase as expected but also phytase. Google-fu has lead me to the understanding that phytase in a mash is used to acidify the mash to control ph. I’ve seen many many accounts of using shells, marble rocks etc to buffer the ph in a fermenting mash and began to wonder if anyone has specifically used phytase to the same end? It’s already in the ylay, so people are obviously using it as part of the ylay “package” but I wondered if anyone had experimented with phytase in “normal” enzyme mashes.

[NormandieStill]

The wikipedia page on phytase suggests that it's more about liberating phosphorus so that it is available to the yeast / fungi. Yellow Label is a symbiotic (*) colony of brewing yeast and a fungus that produces amylases. The initial amylase seems to be there to feed the yeast during their multiplication phase while the fungi is taking hold. Afterwards the fungi produces amylase which continues converting the starch and feeding the yeast population.

* I'm not certain if the relationship is symbiotic. I don't know if the yeast are producing something that is beneficial to the fungi or if both are just happily co-inhabiting your grain and through a form of involuntary teamwork, turning it into alcohol!

[Oystercracker123]

Normandie, try searching “phytase in mashing”. You’re correct, it is liberating calcium, magnesium, and phosphorus for the quasi-symbiotic fermentation. What I’m getting at is I think the yellow label is more of a package. Ie it is doing more than replicating an enzyme mash and ferment. My belief is it is supplementing its own nutrients and possibly breaking down a mash or grain slurry if it isn’t mashed moreso than can be done with enzymes alone.

[NormandieStill]

Perhaps not more than can be done with exogenous enzymes alone, but the advantage that it has is that the fungi continue to supply fresh enzymes which ensures that the process can complete. It's a bit like step-feeding a sugar wash, but with converted grains. You can get (in my experience) fairly high abv clean washes from grains that would be difficult if not impossible to achieve with a conventional mash. As I understand it, the original enzymes are only there to bootstrap the process. Once it's off and running, the continued enzyme output will far exceed the few spoonfuls that you put in at the start. In that sense, and especially having read some comments on phytase rests, I don't think the phytase is having much of an effect on the acidity of the mash. Next time I start a YLAY ferment I'll try and remember to take some pH readings over the first few hours to see if the phytase is doing anything.