Malted rye versus rye grain (unmalted)

[Mr_Beer]

In our area of the mid-south there is no actual rye seed (unmalted rye grain) available from about March through the end of August.

I ordered a larger amount of malted rye today from a popular brewing web site since I did not want to wait until September. .

My question has to do with the use of malted rye versus unmalted rye grain -- is there a distinct or noticeable flavor difference?

My recipe calls for 100% rye. Possibly I will substitute a minor amount (5%) corn in the grain bill.
Yellow Angel yeast will be used.
Water to grain ration will be 2:1

Any opinions are solicited.

[still_stirrin]

Malted rye tastes great. Unmalted (raw) rye grain can taste “grassy”. Some brewers use flaked rye because it has been gelled and rolled, making it easier to mash. But bear in mind, a 100% rye malt recipe will be very viscous, with a sticky, thick mouthfeel. Even fermented, the viscosity is thicker than an all-malt barley recipe.

So, due to the viscosity, your specific gravity readings may be difficult to take, although density is density irrespective of the viscosity, just that the meniscus will be thicker due to the viscosity.

Personally, I prefer the malted rye. And if you can manage the stickiness, I believe you’ll enjoy the flavor.
ss

[tombombadil]

You should do both and let us know.

[SaltyStaves]

Picked this up the other week

Its 100% Malted Rye and double pot stilled.
If I can do this in my mash tun and ferment off the grain, I'm definitely trying my hand at making a 100% Malted Rye.

[Mr_Beer]

100% Rye was one of my first recipes over a year ago. It was 'difficult' to say the least. Overflow of the fermentation pot and very viscous wort were two issues. As I stumbled from one issue to another, I did finally get some beer to be distilled. It was good but the process was not pleasant.

Skip ahead a year and I am now focused on Yellow Label Angel Yeast. The YLAY process avoids the typical mashing process and various rests and long periods of inactivity plus the associated cleanup. All of my YLAY mash procedures have been easy and very straight forward.

My original question was focused on the difference in taste between the malted and unmalted grains.
I do not have enough unmalted grains to do a side by side comparison so that is off the table.

still_stirrin offered a notion of 'grassy' to the question of taste. A future update will provide some answers -- especially to the question of rye and YLAY instead of traditional mashing.

[The Booze Pipe]

What I have derived from my research is yes, malted and unmalted are known to have different flavors! A "single malt" or 100%"whatever grain" doesn't mean you have to use just one specific kind. With a 100% rye you could use it three ways: malted, unmalted, and flaked. That way you will end up with a bit more depth of character.

[Born_Free]

Any opinions are solicited.

I to am a beer guy, but new to all grain distilling. My first malted rye experience may be of use to you.
 
Based on posts I assumed I would get a low conversion on malted rye and then convinced myself the readings during mashing were off due to viscosity. End up with 90% of 36ppg. 50% malted rye 50% malted barley. I never go for high alcohol, (I'm in the camp that thinks its better to just make more wash).

>10% abv may of caused my clearing issues. Hard to say.

I fermented on the grain then squeezed, it just would not clear, crash cooled for 2 weeks, about half cleared half had very thick suspended yeast.

Built a steam rig, and ran the clear wash separate from the "yeasty" wash.

Moved onto a direct element spirit run and the yeasty stuff had a terrible off flavor across all cuts. Clear wash spirit run was my favorite so far.

[Biker24a69]

This thread has got me wanting to do a small batch rye now

[Bolverk]

Yes the differences are noticeable but good.

I've done a 50% malted and unmalted and was very happy with it.

I hope you have steam, a bane marie, or a turnip shaped still run over fire that you can stir, otherwise you're gonna be in a world of hurt when it comes time to run... to say rye is difficult on a flat bottom or electric still is an understatement.

[Bradster68]

I haven't worked with unmalted rye yet. Curious if this "grassy taste" as SS mentioned fades as it ages on oak. Anyone had some long enough to say. If the grassy fades I'd definitely be into fermenting some

[OtisT]

I made an all rye with unmalted grains and absolutely love it. I did get some vegetative smell, but I didn’t really think of it as a negative. I appreciate being able to smell some of the grain in a spirit. That vegetative smell has lessened over the last 1.5 years on toasted oak, replaced by more notes from the toasted wood. While not overly spicy, I can still smell and taste the spice. Unfortunately, I have not (yet) done a malted all rye to compare it to.

I made two batches. One from the clear beer and one from the cloudy beer that remained after settling. These were different too. I preferred the clear beer version, while most others have liked the dirty rye version which I feel is closer to a more traditional rye taste.

A few notes/warnings:
* It’s thick, so stripping with steam is highly recommended to avoid scorching.
* Don’t be surprised by a higher than expected ABV from your ferment with your 2:1 ratio. Mine was also 2:1 and my ferment was well over 10%. I’ve read that rye is high in carbs compared to grains like wheat and barley, so the ratio should be adjusted.
* My ferment foamed up in the first few hours to almost double the volume. Be sure you have plenty of head space in your fermenter. It never foamed during distillation, which I was expecting.
* My ferment appeared complete, but it actually kept fermenting slowly for several weeks after I thought it was done. I probably did not get a complete conversion and the long ferment came as the starches slowly converted naturally?
* My rye did not settle quickly or completely. I did not realize how long it would take and wish I had degassed it before letting it settle. The large amount of cloudy beer after weeks of settling is why I broke it into two batches, clear vs dirty.
* It was a sticky, smelly, mess of a batch and I loved every second of it. It is one of my all time favorite batches of booze.

If interested, here is my thread on that batch of unmalted all rye, complete with pictures. viewtopic.php?t=86790

[ozark_jake]

In my experience the grassiness of unmalted rye does indeed go away with time on oak, at least with my fifty-something percent mash bills. I made a 55% rye, 45% corn batch last July and within a few months it was already quite good with no hint of grass. It's now phenomenal at only a year. This year in March I made a 58% rye, 34% corn, 8% malted barley. It needs more time to develop but already it smells and tastes pretty good with no grassiness.