Home Distiller

This post discusses use of a Brew Bag draining versus squeezing the wort at the end of fermentation. I wanted to make sure that it would work with thicker mashes using corn.

Traditional mashing techniques
Traditional mashing techniques involve higher temps and most often use of enzymes and eventual fermentation ‘on-grain’. After several weeks of fermentation the wort is Ready To Go (RTG). The wort must be separated from the residual grain and trub in the fermentation vessel.
Hence the squeezing proves. Lots of posts about this – mop pails, pillow cases, etc.

It works.
Seven out of six distillers do not enjoy the squeezing process.


Brew Bag Alternative
Transfer your mash material (grains and liquid) to a Brew Bag lining the inside of your fermentation vessel. In my case I use 20 gallon HDPE containers. 800 micron mesh brew bags will work, I prefer the 400 micron mesh.

A 40 pound of grain will weigh 60 to 80 pounds because of water absorption. Once fermentation is complete lift the brew bag up using a pulley system – you cannot realistically hold the bag for the 30 minutes or so it takes to drain.

Let drain – allow 30 minutes. Use of wide belts around the bag will help extract water sooner.
See picture.

Cleanup involves rinsing the brew bag with a hose and washing in your washing machine – use several rinses to clear out any residual soap.

YLAY
YLAY does not require the traditional mash process -- water in the fermenter, dump in crushed grain and make sure temp is about 90 F. I uses heat belts around the fermentation container and an old parka as an insulation device during fermentation.



Vendor site
I am not affiliated with this vendor and find them somewhat difficult to deal with. That said, they sell the product you may need in custom sizes to meet your equipment setup.
https://www.brewinabag.com/

A 30 minute hang isn't going to come even close to draining the mash. I doubt that any hang time will.

Unless you are throwing the slop in a thumper or a steam stripper, you are gonna be squeezing.

I think a great deal will depend on your mash bill. Barley is far easier to drain in a BIAB bag (either before or after fermentation), but corn just won't let the wash go without some serious squeezing. And your bag will hold onto wash like a water balloon if you try an all-rye mash.

Dr Griz wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2024 10:48 am I think a great deal will depend on your mash bill. Barley is far easier to drain in a BIAB bag (either before or after fermentation), but corn just won't let the wash go without some serious squeezing. And your bag will hold onto wash like a water balloon if you try an all-rye mash.

+1
In my experience, even a few pounds of oats in a 50 pound mash bill with corn, wheat, and rye will make you work harder with a paint strainer bag and mop wringer.

I'm about ready to separate an all corn mash after fermentation. I think I'll try this:
For 8 gallons of fermented mash

Get a 17 gallon storage container (why 17? Because it's what I have on hand...heh...)
drill a bunch of holes in the lid
Cover the holes with stainless steel screen (basically cut a sheet to fit the lid)
Sanitize the hell out of the whole thing
Slowly pour the mash over the screen, allowing it to drain through screen, then the holes, then into the container.

Now, This may or may not strain out every last bit of the corn from the liquid, but I feel like being able to spread it out over should help. Also, this batch was made with flaked corn, and fermented dry, so not a lot of gluey liquid.

OR...

Do the build above, then pour the mash into a brew bag, let it drain, then put the bag on to of the screened lid and push the rest out. I dunno.

I'll report back on how it goes.

Honestly after less than 10 batches with a mop bucket and wringer and paint strainer bag I am looking for alternatives. Have thought about building a thumper and steam stripping. But keep coming back to be brew bag concept. Does that 800 micron bag they suggest for corn mash really work? I'd be willing to hang the bag 12-24 hours if it would get me somewhat close to what I can get from the mop bucket. From a recent batch I got about 12 gallons siphonable clear and another 11 gallons from squeezing. If the brew bag would get 80% of that 11 gallons I'd call it good enough.

Homebrewer11777 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 04, 2024 12:02 pm Honestly after less than 10 batches with a mop bucket and wringer and paint strainer bag I am looking for alternatives. Have thought about building a thumper and steam stripping. But keep coming back to be brew bag concept. Does that 800 micron bag they suggest for corn mash really work? I'd be willing to hang the bag 12-24 hours if it would get me somewhat close to what I can get from the mop bucket. From a recent batch I got about 12 gallons siphonable clear and another 11 gallons from squeezing. If the brew bag would get 80% of that 11 gallons I'd call it good enough.

As some others have said, it really depends on your mash bill and grind. I use a brew bag, but still almost always have to use the mop wringer. The little holes in the bag clog if you have rye and oats, or if your corn grind is close to flour.

If you are using a basic, out of the bag cracked corn, then maybe it will work, but I’ve never had a lift, let it drain experience that was even close to mop wringer.

OK, so I tried my evil idea. Here's the rig:
Basically, I drilled holes in the lid, placed some aluminum screen over the top, poured the mash from the fermenter on the screen, let drain for 2 hours per fermenter, so it was a long time, but not labor intensive at all.

Total in fermenters was about 10 gallons, including 16 lbs of flaked corn. Total recovered was a little over 7 gallons. So, minus the 16 lbs of grains, I probably lost about a gallon of wort to the grain.

Also, it was like water, not gooey at all. I know Rye is way gooier, but if you are just using flaked corn...this was WAY easier.

Some folks here have used one of these as a sort of shaker table to eliminate the squeeze.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00K9TUAQG/?c ... _lig_dp_it

Sorry if this isn't helpful, but this is the exact reason some of switch over to steam... no muss, no fuss, ferment and distill on grain, it all gets tossed after. Steam is absolutely worth looking into if you're making anything with grain or fruit.

Homebrewer11777 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 04, 2024 12:02 pm Honestly after less than 10 batches with a mop bucket and wringer and paint strainer bag I am looking for alternatives.

If it's the constant filling and dumping of the paint strainer bag that bugs you, you might try moving to a larger fruit press. That would get you the extraction in one (or two) pressings...

Bolverk wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2024 11:35 am Sorry if this isn't helpful, but this is the exact reason some of switch over to steam... no muss, no fuss, ferment and distill on grain, it all gets tossed after. Steam is absolutely worth looking into if you're making anything with grain or fruit.

I back this statement 200%. I tried all the methods before i built a steam rig. If your planning on producing any volume of all grain/fruit products just budget the $/time for steam rather than spending it on “fixing” squeeze/bag methods.

I make beer using malt and a mash with the a stainless basket that drains freely. I like the stainless basket over a bag as there is nothing to burn and I can easily stir the mash.

All my un malted grains are ground to a flour, fermented on the grain, then stripped with steam. It helps if you have a compost pile to dump the slop. No squeezing.

not worth it for me, I pump out the mash and leave the spent grains in the fermenter. I just make a few extra gallons and it's not missed. I think it makes a cleaner spirit as well.

Bolverk wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2024 11:35 am Sorry if this isn't helpful, but this is the exact reason some of switch over to steam... no muss, no fuss, ferment and distill on grain, it all gets tossed after. Steam is absolutely worth looking into if you're making anything with grain or fruit.

Brew bags and/or squeezing works, adding some sort of vibrator makes it work even better.
For distilling high percentage of corn, steam stripping is the holy grail. Mostly because it's so effective, but also because the equipment used is excellent for not only distilling but also mashing.

I use corn meal lately so it’s fairly fine. Steams well and YLY leaves very little behind. After steaming the corn I drain the pot down the laundry room floor drain while running a water hose down at same time. Pot drain is only about 3/8”. Sure beats trying to screen or squeeze it.

Previously for cracked corn I was using a 800 micron BIAB. Worked but was messy. Lot of squeezing and swearing!

As I promised earlier, I am publishing my results. Not scientific but reasonably controlled environment.

YLAY yeast -- changes the profile for preparation for fermentation.
Select brew bag size -- 800 micron for corn based mash with a fine grind, 400 micron for traditional grain based mash (wheat, barley, etc.)
Add grain to 97 F water (based in 20 gallon fermenter size) in the fermentation barrel that has the appropriate brew bag size.
Add hydrated Angle Yeast in appropriate quantities. In my case 15 gallon water with about 40 pounds grain and 11 tbls YLAY.
Tie off the bag at the entrance so that grain does not 'escape' as you stir it and punch it down for the next week or so on a twice daily basis.

Rye based initial fermentation are quite active -- may overflow your fermenter if you do not have enough free board for expansion

Barley based mashes are "hot" -- quite active initially. Again, allow much freeboard space for the active fermentation or you will be cleaning up overflow from the floor.

Corn based mashes seem 'average' -- takes time and it just works.

My opinion is that you need some heating belts around your fermenter connected through a temp controller to keep them at 90F. Heating belts are available for about $10 each on eBay and a controller costs about $40 on Amazon. I use an old jacket over the fermenter for an insulation blanket -- think Goodwill and $5

YLAY did not change the flavor profile -- 3 months into ageing after distillation. I could not determine the difference in flavor from US-05 and YLAY.

Others have suggested that the YLAY results in a 'grainier' taste -- may be true but it is very subtle.

Be sure you get some type of pulley system to lift the brew bag and squeeze it. See my other posts for examples.

Lots less effort for mash preparation and associated cleanup.

Currently I use a hops basket to block solids as i Siphon from the mash, pushing the basket down more as more as I can, sometimes I gotta wait for liquid to seep in but its quite fast and leaves the grain on the top, rather dry.

I then just use a hand-held basket strainer and do scoops of grain, holding it up until its only dripping some, which doesn't take long due to the previous hops basket route. And then I dump the hand-held basket into a bucket, and repeat until Im done.

There is SOME liquid left, since its not squeezed out of the grain, but I've decided the effort:reward ratio isn't there for me and isn't gonna be what makes or breaks this batch, so I call it quits.

Pushing towards steam stripping, so moot point, but if I wasn't then I'd look closely at a cone bottom or false bottom / screen for a drain out of a fermenter and just open a valve, let gravity and time do the work.

A 300 micron mesh hops basket*