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Looking for advice
Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2024 11:14 am
by Fixit
I was cruising the web trying to price out a modular colum. I am a noob and want to try out diffrent set ups to test out which ones I like. I don't have a boiler yet but have some ideas going. In my search I found this.
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/32568073 ... pt=glo2usa
It seems like a great deal for the hardware you get and a nice starting place to grow. That said I would like to know what the pros say. I want to start with nuetrals first but move to gin and brandy as well.
Thanks in advance.
Re: Looking for advice
Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2024 12:35 pm
by Salt Must Flow
That is a CM (cooling management) still. You need precise control of the water flow rate to control the take-off rate. If you have pressure fluctuations that's another issue. Many use water pumps to supply CM stills because pumps are consistent. If the source water temp rises then the flow rate must increase for the take-off rate to remain consistent. If you're recycling/recirculating water then that can be another issue to solve.
The still you listed has a 2" column. The rule of thumb is that the packed column height should be 20x the diameter. That means a 2" packed column should be 40" tall. They don't list the length of the packed column, but that's because they're usually always too short.
I've always been partial to a VM (Vapor Management) still. With VM, the take-off rate and purity of the product is not affected by fluctuations in water pressure, flow rate or temperature. Those factors can fluctuate and the still just functions consistently. Now in extreme cases where pressure drops extremely, flow drops extremely, or temp rises extremely ... that will screw up any still's operation. Some may recommend a CCVM (condenser controlled vapor management) because it is similar to VM. The best recommendation is to research the different types of stills, HOW they function, HOW you control them and go from there.
Re: Looking for advice
Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2024 12:39 pm
by Sporacle
The column supplied is probably to short for a neutral
Not to sure if the RC is an old cross flow or a shell and tube.
The principal is right for a modular I doubt very much wether it has been executed correctly.
Search for " Kimbodious Modular " on this search engine
Good luck
Re: Looking for advice
Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2024 1:30 pm
by Fixit
Thank you both. Thats good enough advice for me. It is 37" tall, there is a picture with measurment, so way short. I suppose anything with that poor of a description should be avoided lol. I will keep studying.
Re: Looking for advice
Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2024 2:12 pm
by Salt Must Flow
Fixit wrote: ↑Fri Oct 04, 2024 1:30 pm
Thank you both. Thats good enough advice for me. It is 37" tall, there is a picture with measurment, so way short. I suppose anything with that poor of a description should be avoided lol. I will keep studying.
Yup 37" from the tip top to the bottom fitting. Nearly half of that overall length is actually the packed column. You would need nearly 2' more length by buying a separate 2"x2' Tri-Clamp spool, clamp & gasket. A lot of people have purchased a similar still, found that it needed to be taller then added another spool. There's lot of topics here about how to get CM stills to run stable and then comes the discussion of different types of pumps, a water bypass, pressure regulators, valves to regulate flow, etc...
Re: Looking for advice
Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2024 4:40 am
by Rusty Ole Bucket
Fixit wrote: ↑Fri Oct 04, 2024 1:30 pm
Thank you both. Thats good enough advice for me. It is 37" tall, there is a picture with measurment, so way short. I suppose anything with that poor of a description should be avoided lol. I will keep studying.
Have you considered building what you want? It's pretty easy to come by all the parts you need and the tools can be had at any big box or hardware store. All the information you need to research and build exactly what you want is right here. It's extremely rewarding to work your way through everything then see it work. Ask me how I know.
Rusty
Re: Looking for advice
Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2024 10:45 am
by Fixit
Rusty Ole Bucket wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2024 4:40 am
Fixit wrote: ↑Fri Oct 04, 2024 1:30 pm
Thank you both. Thats good enough advice for me. It is 37" tall, there is a picture with measurment, so way short. I suppose anything with that poor of a description should be avoided lol. I will keep studying.
Have you considered building what you want? It's pretty easy to come by all the parts you need and the tools can be had at any big box or hardware store. All the information you need to research and build exactly what you want is right here. It's extremely rewarding to work your way through everything then see it work. Ask me how I know.
Rusty
Thanks for the advice. I have an idea going and it will be modular starting with an 8 gal. pot still. Should get me going without breaking the bank. After I figure that out and learn more about making cuts with it, my plan is a reflux VM type system. I like the idea of more than one use for a boiler by going modular. One step at a time is the main goal fon now. I have been reading like crazy so far and I must say this site is full of answers. Want to know about copper in the boiler or how to clean for your first runs HD Google it and bingo. The list goes on and on from plastics to solder types it is crazy how much info in available.
Fixit
Re: Looking for advice
Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2024 1:46 pm
by MooseMan
Rusty Ole Bucket wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2024 4:40 am
Fixit wrote: ↑Fri Oct 04, 2024 1:30 pm
Thank you both. Thats good enough advice for me. It is 37" tall, there is a picture with measurment, so way short. I suppose anything with that poor of a description should be avoided lol. I will keep studying.
Have you considered building what you want? It's pretty easy to come by all the parts you need and the tools can be had at any big box or hardware store. All the information you need to research and build exactly what you want is right here. It's extremely rewarding to work your way through everything then see it work. Ask me how I know.
Rusty
Fixit, this man speaks good advice.
Many, many people have come here for advise on what off the shelf still to buy and ended up realising that they could make something far superior, for far less money, and enjoy the process along the way.
Re: Looking for advice
Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2024 2:09 pm
by Deplorable
Another +1 for building it yourself. I'd also recommend that you reconsider that 8 gallon boiler and go with at least a 50 liter (13 gallon) size boiler.
You can always put less in it, but you can't put more.
I almost went with an 8 gallon milk can when I started, and quickly realized before it shipped it was going to be to small after doing some reading on here. There is a reason that converted 15 gallon beer kegs are so popular. they are a perfect size for about 90% of hobby distillers.
Re: Looking for advice
Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2024 2:23 pm
by Rusty Ole Bucket
MooseMan wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2024 1:46 pm
Fixit, this man speaks good advice.
Many, many people have come here for advise on what off the shelf still to buy and ended up realising that they could make something far superior, for far less money, and enjoy the process along the way.
Thanks Mooseman! That means a lot coming from you.
I was looking at the 13 gallon Jungle Website Special pot/thumper/worm set up with 1/2" copper lines last winter then I found this forum/wiki and that idea flew away quickly. I knew I was going to build not buy. I just finished my still, I have 3 times the money in my set up than the off the shelf I was looking at but I have 10 times the still. I'm still green as grass at this but I don't regret one bit going the built not bought route. The pride, satisfaction and knowledge of your equipment can't be bought. Just my (recent) experience.
Rusty
Re: Looking for advice
Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2024 4:55 pm
by The Booze Pipe
If you want VM, then why waste money purchasing a cm columm..? two inch column is good size for 8 or 13 gallon boiler.
You have to figure your ferments, strips, and spirit runs. To get a spirit run (fill that 8 gallon can with low wines) you'll need about 20 or 30 gallons of wash to strip.
What I used to do was two 20 gallon ferments, and four 10 gallon strips in my keg, and then I would have a solid 10 gallon spirit run. in my opinion, get a 13 gal milk can and later add the 20 gallon milk can (with a 3"column) for striping all your wash. i'm sure you can make that 8 gallon work for you, if thats what you're stuck on.
Re: Looking for advice
Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2024 5:12 pm
by Deplorable
The Booze Pipe wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2024 4:55 pm
You'll save yourself money by going bigger than 8 gal now, like they said 13-15 milk can or keg is great. Also, if you want VM, then why waste money purchasing a cm columm..? and two inch column is good size for 13 gallon boiler.
You have to figure your ferments, strips, and spirit runs. To get a spirit run (fill that 8 gallon can with low wines) you'll need about 20 gallons of wash to strip.
What I used to do was two 20 gallon ferments, and four 10 gallon strips in my keg, and then I would have a solid 10 gallon spirit run. in my opinion, get a 13 gal milk can (for spirit run) and a 20 gallon milk can (with a 3"column) for striping all your wash.
Sound advice to put some thought into your ferment size.
I ferment in 29 gallon HDPE drums. 50# of grain and 23 gallons of water. I fill my milk can twice for stripping runs off that ferment and get about 5 to 6 gallons of low wines for the spirit run, from that I get about 1.5 gallons of 60%. If I moved to a 55 gallon barrel for fermenting, Id get another boiler charge for the stripping runs and probably about 10 gallons for the spirit run. Or I could fill both my fermenters, and get a full 13 gallon boiler of low wines plus a little fresh wash.
Now is a good time to think about the whole process, so you "buy once, cry once". This hobby demands a lot of time, There are places you can save some time and labor, and places you just can't cheat.
Re: Looking for advice
Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2024 5:30 pm
by The Booze Pipe
Deplorable wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2024 5:12 pm
The Booze Pipe wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2024 4:55 pm
You'll save yourself money by going bigger than 8 gal now, like they said 13-15 milk can or keg is great. Also, if you want VM, then why waste money purchasing a cm columm..? and two inch column is good size for 13 gallon boiler.
You have to figure your ferments, strips, and spirit runs. To get a spirit run (fill that 8 gallon can with low wines) you'll need about 20 gallons of wash to strip.
What I used to do was two 20 gallon ferments, and four 10 gallon strips in my keg, and then I would have a solid 10 gallon spirit run. in my opinion, get a 13 gal milk can (for spirit run) and a 20 gallon milk can (with a 3"column) for striping all your wash.
Now is a good time to think about the whole process, so you "buy once, cry once". This hobby demands a lot of time, There are places you can save some time and labor, and places you just can't cheat.
That's exactly what I'm getting at! Think the whole process through. Otherwise like me and others, you'll end up constantly "upgrading" to larger vessels, columns, fermenters and so on... I think if you start with how much final product you desire to have, you can work back from there. Are you making a drop just to keep to your self? Do you want some liquor to age, or share with friends and family? Keeping yourself supplied as well as some close friends and family takes a good effort, or larger equipment.
Try not to get so excited about this hobby you go out and buy a bunch of stuff... distilling spirits is the ultimate test of patience. Get some solid research first, then research some more, and more, then a little more
Re: Looking for advice
Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2024 10:35 am
by greggn
That seems expensive for Aliexpress. I think you could buy the parts cheaper, domestically. For grins and giggles, maybe try comparing to Glacier Tanks for spools and tri-clamp hardware:
https://www.glaciertanks.com/fittings/t ... skets.html
... but, prices aside, I think the first place newbies should start is establishing their power requirements. It would be a shame to purchase something larger than you can easily heat.
Re: Looking for advice
Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2024 8:51 am
by Fixit
I am glad I asked before I bought. After a week or so of researching the advice to go bigger seems the way. I have a couple of routes I am looking into for a boiler but 15 gal. Looks about perfect. I already have a 35 gallon feed bucket to ferment in so that should line up nicely. I also have 240 volts for my giant ac unit so I can wire a plug sraight from that ( I work with industrial wiring often ) . I am warming up to the keg builds just not the look.
I like to price out stuff before I buy and would love feedback on 5000w controlers you use and any info on tri clamp pot still attachments and size recomendations. Thanks to all for the intial advice and as always feedback is appreciated.
Re: Looking for advice
Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2024 9:47 am
by The Booze Pipe
Fixit wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 8:51 am
I am glad I asked before I bought. After a week or so of researching the advice to go bigger seems the way. I have a couple of routes I am looking into for a boiler but 15 gal. Looks about perfect. I already have a 35 gallon feed bucket to ferment in so that should line up nicely. I also have 240 volts for my giant ac unit so I can wire a plug sraight from that ( I work with industrial wiring often ) . I am warming up to the keg builds just not the look.
I like to price out stuff before I buy and would love feedback on 5000w controlers you use and any info on tri clamp pot still attachments and size recomendations. Thanks to all for the intial advice and as always feedback is appreciated.
Kegs aren't attractive, but running elements, you'll cover it up with some insulation anyway.
2 inch riser/columns work okay on top of a keg, but I think 3" is best suited, with a 5500 watt low density element. reduce it to 2" and add a 2"x24" shotgun condenser, and you'll be able to strip hard and fast. A ten gallon strip will take about 3 hours (if I remember correctly).
Look for the higher quality (thicker, heavier, more material) tri-clamps. The "new" cheap, lighter weight ones are just ok. Consider using some copper components (tri-clamps spools) for sulfur reduction. Google search 'copper in vapor path' for more info.
Re: Looking for advice
Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2024 11:12 am
by Salt Must Flow
Fixit wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 8:51 am
I am glad I asked before I bought. After a week or so of researching the advice to go bigger seems the way. I have a couple of routes I am looking into for a boiler but 15 gal. Looks about perfect. I already have a 35 gallon feed bucket to ferment in so that should line up nicely. I also have 240 volts for my giant ac unit so I can wire a plug sraight from that ( I work with industrial wiring often ) . I am warming up to the keg builds just not the look.
I like to price out stuff before I buy and would love feedback on 5000w controlers you use and any info on tri clamp pot still attachments and size recomendations. Thanks to all for the intial advice and as always feedback is appreciated.
If you're questioning "which size" of column to go with, this might help. The size you often see is 2". A 2" packed column can get a take-off rate of approx 1 to 1.5 LPH if I recall correctly. People often say, "2 inch is painfully slow". A 3" column can operate at twice the power and you get twice the take-off rate. My 3" VM operates at 2750W and 3 to 3.25 LPH. My 4" VM column can operate at twice the power and get twice the take-off rate. My 4" VM operates at 5500W and 6 to 6.5 LPH.
Height may be a factor (explained previously).
It's best to know what type of reflux column you want. I prefer VM because it's damn near completely automatic. Some prefer LM, CCVM, CM. It's best to understand how they work, how you operate them before making a final decision.
Re: Looking for advice
Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2024 3:33 pm
by The Booze Pipe
Thank you, Salt for a more intelligent explanation. My brain has been in pot-still-mode for stripping so I wasn't considering numbers.
Re: Looking for advice
Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2024 3:40 pm
by Salt Must Flow
The Booze Pipe wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2024 3:33 pm
Thank you, Salt for a more intelligent explanation. My brain has been in pot-still-mode for stripping so I wasn't considering numbers.
Yeah pot still size doesn't matter unless you're thinking bubble caps/plates. The diameter of the riser makes no difference. Power input = LPH output. I primarily only make neutral so I use the same still in 'pot still mode' for stripping runs.
Re: Looking for advice
Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2024 8:14 am
by Fixit
Thanks Salt and Booze. I am looking at VM it looks smart and safe for spirit running. Start using pot still for stripping. I need to get keg hunting now.
Re: Looking for advice
Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2024 8:34 am
by The Booze Pipe
Re: Looking for advice
Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2024 8:48 am
by Tammuz
The Booze Pipe wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 8:34 am
https://oakstills.com/products/50lt-13g ... can-boiler
I have bought a lot from them parts wise before they raised their prices. Peter there had plenty of patience working with me. For $350 bucks you won't be saving much doing it yourself, but I relearned my brazing techniques, and added a few cuss words to my vocabulary while building my own. If you have the tools I would buy a keg and order all your triclamps and fitting from AliExpress. Otherwise you'll be spending more on tools than your kit.
Re: Looking for advice
Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2024 11:53 am
by Homebrewer11777
I have the Kent keg and have been very happy with it. Here it is with 3" modular still head, fired with 2x2000 watt elements.
StrippingStill.jpeg
Re: Looking for advice
Posted: Sat Oct 26, 2024 8:41 am
by Fixit
Homebrewer11777 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2024 11:53 am
I have the Kent keg and have been very happy with it. Here it is with 3" modular still head, fired with 2x2000 watt elements.
StrippingStill.jpegStrippingStill.jpeg
Perfect! That is exactly what I needed. I can figure the rest out (with some help) and post pictures once I get that Kent keg. That really is a good deal and saves me searching the scrap yard.
Re: Looking for advice
Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2024 10:00 am
by Fixit
My Kent keg just came in. I ordered it Friday so fast shipping and with it on sale and a 10% discount was just a tick over 200 bucks. 4 inch top and 1.5 for the heating element. It's a start!
Re: Looking for advice
Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2024 11:52 pm
by quadra
That is a really great value and a great way to get started!
Re: Looking for advice
Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2024 8:30 am
by Homebrewer11777
If you need a heating element that fits it well I am using 2 of these:
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/ ... 100_tc.htm
and here is the fit...they just barely touch each other and just clear the pick up tube.