🍁MAPLE BAR MOONSHINE🍁

[RaceReadyStillz]

Hey everyone, I’m Race and I’m brand new to the site but I am not new to the craft. I’ve been at this for 3 going on 4 years and I’m the type of guy who goes ballz deep when I like something so I tend to take on innovative and costly projects for the sake of learning and having something nobody else has and i attempt to make them the highest quality possible( bouje ass expensive mashes). Before anyone jumps down my throat, I already searched for this exact thing on here and found nothing like it. In fact I found more “Sap” recipes then Syrup for some reason. Ok so as the post title says, I’m attempting to make a Maple Bar Moonshine. I have a 33 gal fermenter and I plan to make 21-22 gallons of mash. I have 6 gallons of pure maple syrup(4 Very dark Pennsylvania and 2 dark Wisconsin ) that I purposely collected from 2 different sources to attempt a more full spectrum flavor, thus the use of 2 different types of maple as well. My plan to make the liquor into “ Maple bar” and not just maple is to use soft white wheat berries and white wheat malt maybe 50/50 unless I’m advised otherwise. I don’t know how much I should use tbh. So plan I drew up before I decided to take it to a community was to use 25lbs of flaked corn, 10lbs of wheat (5/5) and then 5.5 gallons of syrup saving .5 gallons of the “ Very Dark” maple to run in my thumper to make sure there is fresh maple flavor in every drop. So I know how I will run it but if anyone can pipe up on that recipe I would sure appreciate it. Considering that maple syrup is $67 Fing dollars a gallon I don’t wanna mess this up. Thanks yall -Race

[Yummyrum]

What is Maple Bar Moonshine ?
Sorry I’m not following .
What is a Maple Bar ?

[VLAGAVULVIN]

soft white wheat berries

Pahd'n?..

[GrumbleStill]

At those sort of $ I’d be fermenting/ running the grain and maple separately, as small batches, then blending the finished product to see what mix gives you the flavour profile you like.

[Bolverk]

I would tackle this in 2 parts

A gallon of maple syurp weighs about 11 lbs and is 60% sugar.
So that's 6.6lbs of sugar so I would add 5-5.5 gals of water for every gallon of syurp, this will give you an approx 8% abv potential.

The grain part is easy, but I personally wouldn't use corn or wheat neither have the "bar" part of the maple bar flavor you're looking for. I'd be looking at rye (specifically rye malt) and oats for the rest.

The way id construct this bill.

2 gals syrup (one of each kind)
12 gals water

10lbs rye malt
5 lbs of rolled oats
10 gals of water
(Do a proper mash)

Combine the above in 1 fermentor, the total volume will be about 24-25 gals.

Edit to add:
This is also more historically accurate. Corn wasn't really grown in large quantities in the region, Wheat was grown but it's a pretty mild flavor and wont contribute a lot to this. rye and oats were grown in the area the rye will add a lot of baking spice flavor and the oats will give it bready type aroma (especially if you toast them) and good mouth feel.

[Bushman]

What is Maple Bar Moonshine ?
Sorry I’m not following .
What is a Maple Bar ?

I am guessing Race is from Canada where Maple Whiskey is a favored whiskey. Not sure what is meant by Maple Bar other than the maple flavor in the Whiskey. Maybe Race can give a better definition between Maple Bar and just Maple Whiskey.

[Coyote]

Maple Bars are donuts round here

Coyote

[sadie33]

lol, I couldn't figure out what a maple bar was either. I am still very new as well, but I'm wondering if you couldn't add actual donuts to the ferment to get some of that "bar" flavor? I know people have used cereal, why not donuts?

and thank you- now I want maple frosted doughnuts.

[RaceReadyStillz]

Guys I’m not from that liberal hell scape called Canada I am from Oregon it’s 50/50 here . Yes Maple Bars are A donut. That’s what I am aiming for. Maple bar donut which is why I started with the idea for Wheat.. wheat has been grown here since the beginning. Along with corn and everything else. I heard one person say Rye… that’s interesting and I’m listening but I have always found rye to be spicy like peeper kinda so that might just make me a maple pepper bar which would not be it.. however I had a Rye whiskey one time that gave me none of that and did have an amazing flavor and mouth feel.. I also like the idea for Oats which is one i already had but im trying to be careful to not change the flavor from the Maple donut flavor which uses zero oats IRL.. Blending is a good idea but I have to be honest, I’m not a trained blender .. it’s just not how we do it in the backwoods. We keep the heads the hell out of it, the hearts kept close and sometimes some tails put in of you plan to age it a bit.. anyone else willing to speak on this is greatly appreciated

[RaceReadyStillz]

What is Maple Bar Moonshine ?
Sorry I’m not following .
What is a Maple Bar ?

Maple bar is a bar shaped Donut made from wheat flour that has a sugary maple Glaze on the top

[RaceReadyStillz]

lol, I couldn't figure out what a maple bar was either. I am still very new as well, but I'm wondering if you couldn't add actual donuts to the ferment to get some of that "bar" flavor? I know people have used cereal, why not donuts?

and thank you- now I want maple frosted doughnuts.

that’s not a bad idea bro, yes you can straight up ferment baked goods and that’s a serious idea I’ll take into consideration.. just go to the Store and swoop a whole sheet of maple bars and dump it in the grain mash

[RaceReadyStillz]

soft white wheat berries

Pahd'n?..

Can you translate that for me?

[RaceReadyStillz]

I would tackle this in 2 parts

A gallon of maple syurp weighs about 11 lbs and is 60% sugar.
So that's 6.6lbs of sugar so I would add 5-5.5 gals of water for every gallon of syurp, this will give you an approx 8% abv potential.

The grain part is easy, but I personally wouldn't use corn or wheat neither have the "bar" part of the maple bar flavor you're looking for. I'd be looking at rye (specifically rye malt) and oats for the rest.

The way id construct this bill.

2 gals syrup (one of each kind)
12 gals water

10lbs rye malt
5 lbs of rolled oats
10 gals of water
(Do a proper mash)

Combine the above in 1 fermentor, the total volume will be about 24-25 gals.

Edit to add:
This is also more historically accurate. Corn wasn't really grown in large quantities in the region, Wheat was grown but it's a pretty mild flavor and wont contribute a lot to this. rye and oats were grown in the area the rye will add a lot of baking spice flavor and the oats will give it bready type aroma (especially if you toast them) and good mouth feel.

Yeah this stuff is 66% sugar. I’m interested in your idea for Rye though. I feel like that’s very risky considering what it does to a whiskey with the peppery type flavor it adds in just small amounts. I mentioned below but I tried 1 rye that was totally different and if I pulled that off it would be amazing. Oats are definitely a force multiplier for mouth feel so that’s in for sure but the wheat is exactly what’s used to make the donut so I feel like to leave that out in place of rye would just not be true to the taste

[VLAGAVULVIN]

soft white wheat berries

Pahd'n?..

Can you translate that for me?

Pardon, would you please be so kind as to explain the meaning of "soft white wheat berries"?

[Bolverk]

Yeah this stuff is 66% sugar. I’m interested in your idea for Rye though. I feel like that’s very risky considering what it does to a whiskey with the peppery type flavor it adds in just small amounts. I mentioned below but I tried 1 rye that was totally different and if I pulled that off it would be amazing. Oats are definitely a force multiplier for mouth feel so that’s in for sure but the wheat is exactly what’s used to make the donut so I feel like to leave that out in place of rye would just not be true to the taste

By fermenting at cooler temps and using rye malt you should minimize "the peppers" (acrolein), and get more of that baking spice.

If youre worried the rye may be too much, maybe do it with 5lbs wheat, 5 rye malt, and 5 oats.

[RaceReadyStillz]

That is a good idea. Originally I was just going to collect 6 gallons maple and run it but the idea to do a grain blend was eating at me. I’m glad I decided to hop in here.. I’ve been meaning to for a while

[VLAGAVULVIN]

By fermenting at cooler temps and using rye malt you should minimize "the peppers" (acrolein), and get more of that baking spice.

If you have some, may I get more reading about these aspects? Including malted / unmalted rye details, please?

[Bolverk]

If you have some, may I get more reading about these aspects? Including malted / unmalted rye details, please?

Sorry i don't have a lot on this saved and most of my understanding comes from professionals in various interviews.

According to Todd Leopold:
Acrolein comes from a lactobacillus fermentation that's spiraled out of control. The reason you can get that in a rye mash is if you run it the same way you would bourbon (ferment at high temps), there's a lot more "unfermentable stuff" in a rye mash vs. a corn mash....so there's exponentially more food for the lactobacillus to eat. So if you treat a rye mash the same way you would a bourbon mash (fermenting hot) the rye mash will have WAY too much lactobacillus fermentation...which leads to "the peppers". "Peppers" as in "pepper spray"...and acrolein was an old ingredient used in pepper spray.

Additionally malted rye has considerably less lactobacillus on it due to the kilning process as the lacto doesn't survive most of that process. Most rye make in the NE was made with malted rye not malted barley.

According to old articles found by Laura Fields of American Whiskey History and the DVFF (people responsible for resurrecting Rosen rye) rye was never supposed to be "spicy" it was actually considered a flaw in rye whiskey. It was only after prohibition that bourbon took off and was fermenting hot that rye got this spicy tasting note.

[Saltbush Bill]

Nice info Bolverk, and explained in simple terms

[Bee]

Seems like a waste of good maple syrup.
I'd just add some after the cuts are made. That would probably take 1/100th the syrup for the same or better flavor

[VLAGAVULVIN]

According to Todd Leopold:
Acrolein comes from a lactobacillus fermentation that's spiraled out of control. The reason you can get that in a rye mash is if you run it the same way you would bourbon (ferment at high temps), there's a lot more "unfermentable stuff" in a rye mash vs. a corn mash....so there's exponentially more food for the lactobacillus to eat. So if you treat a rye mash the same way you would a bourbon mash (fermenting hot) the rye mash will have WAY too much lactobacillus fermentation...which leads to "the peppers". "Peppers" as in "pepper spray"...and acrolein was an old ingredient used in pepper spray.

Additionally malted rye has considerably less lactobacillus on it due to the kilning process as the lacto doesn't survive most of that process. Most rye make in the NE was made with malted rye not malted barley.

According to old articles found by Laura Fields of American Whiskey History and the DVFF (people responsible for resurrecting Rosen rye) rye was never supposed to be "spicy" it was actually considered a flaw in rye whiskey. It was only after prohibition that bourbon took off and was fermenting hot that rye got this spicy tasting note.

Thank you so much!

Hmm... if I add lysozyme to my rye mash, then I won't get any "pepper" at all?

[Bolverk]

Thank you so much!

Hmm... if I add lysozyme to my rye mash, then I won't get any "pepper" at all?

No, I was just using that as an example

Ferment cooler and don't let your beer sit for too long after it's done before running it

[VLAGAVULVIN]

Ferment cooler and don't let your beer sit for too long after it's done before running it

Interesting. So, I'd get some peppery things anyways (even in a sterilized wort) at some higher temp and (if?) it keeps on sitting on them yeast...

I'm not trying to confuse you. I'm trying to understand. Just a week back I bottled a beer with 18% rye malt. I spent a lot of time mashing, filtering, and boiling it to let it sour. So I controlled the pH, threw in a triple dose of lysozyme, and hopped it hecking well. Then it voss-kveiked at 35C/95F. For over a week. And the beer is not sour. It's not kvass. It's the brightly rye imperial stout that has its true 10% AbV. But was it still "the success" with that hint of a peppery twist? Or does rye have some other distinctive feature? It's now definitely not black Pumpernickel bread. But it's not peppery either. Maybe a nuttiness? Probably walnut...

[Bolverk]

Ferment cooler and don't let your beer sit for too long after it's done before running it

Interesting. So, I'd get some peppery things anyways (even in a sterilized wort) at some higher temp and (if?) it keeps on sitting on them yeast...

I'm not trying to confuse you. I'm trying to understand. Just a week back I bottled a beer with 18% rye malt. I spent a lot of time mashing, filtering, and boiling it to let it sour. So I controlled the pH, threw in a triple dose of lysozyme, and hopped it hecking well. Then it voss-kveiked at 35C/95F. For over a week. And the beer is not sour. It's not kvass. It's the brightly rye imperial stout that has its true 10% AbV. But was it still "the success" with that hint of a peppery twist? Or does rye have some other distinctive feature? It's now definitely not black Pumpernickel bread. But it's not peppery either. Maybe a nuttiness? Probably walnut...

Sorry I misread the previous the post that I replied to... was replying before I had any coffee.

I have no experience or info on lysozyme so cant really offer anything of substance.

I think the point Todd was making is that unchecked lactic acid can lead to acrolein, not that it always does and is always bad. Hell he himself let's his ferments go a day or two longer to get some lactic acid.

[VLAGAVULVIN]

I have no experience or info on lysozyme so cant really offer anything of substance.

Pardon me my Wiki :: Lactobacillus is a genus of gram-positive, aerotolerant anaerobes or microaerophilic, rod-shaped, non-spore-forming bacteria.

Lysozyme perfectly suppresses gram-positive bacteria in yeast emulsion or in wort, as well as in finished beer (it all depends on the concentration). In addition, in the latter, I usually pasteurize any of my wort. In short, the mash does not sour even after a week, unless someone has ocasionally introduced acetobacter (against which lysozyme is ineffective). I love aceto in my lambic beers, tho

[RaceReadyStillz]

soft white wheat berries

Pahd'n?..

Can you translate that for me?

Pardon, would you please be so kind as to explain the meaning of "soft white wheat berries"?

Oh yeah sorry brother, wheat berries is what they call the parts of the wheat they actually keep. That’s what we grind up into what’s used for baking ,Hard wheat Berries and Soft Berries have a difference in flavor for some reason. Like malted or not I guess. I’m not sure what actually malted wheat comes from but I imagine it’s from either one depending on what they have.

[RaceReadyStillz]

If you have some, may I get more reading about these aspects? Including malted / unmalted rye details, please?

Sorry i don't have a lot on this saved and most of my understanding comes from professionals in various interviews.

According to Todd Leopold:
Acrolein comes from a lactobacillus fermentation that's spiraled out of control. The reason you can get that in a rye mash is if you run it the same way you would bourbon (ferment at high temps), there's a lot more "unfermentable stuff" in a rye mash vs. a corn mash....so there's exponentially more food for the lactobacillus to eat. So if you treat a rye mash the same way you would a bourbon mash (fermenting hot) the rye mash will have WAY too much lactobacillus fermentation...which leads to "the peppers". "Peppers" as in "pepper spray"...and acrolein was an old ingredient used in pepper spray.

Additionally malted rye has considerably less lactobacillus on it due to the kilning process as the lacto doesn't survive most of that process. Most rye make in the NE was made with malted rye not malted barley.

According to old articles found by Laura Fields of American Whiskey History and the DVFF (people responsible for resurrecting Rosen rye) rye was never supposed to be "spicy" it was actually considered a flaw in rye whiskey. It was only after prohibition that bourbon took off and was fermenting hot that rye got this spicy tasting note.

MY MAN! Good stuff brother, well that’s good for me because I live in Oregon city up at the highest level and it’s Cold AF here right now. I’ll make a new post about the run I just did. It was pretty epic and just finished last night

[VLAGAVULVIN]

Oh yeah sorry brother, wheat berries is what they call the parts of the wheat they actually keep. That’s what we grind up into what’s used for baking ,Hard wheat Berries and Soft Berries have a difference in flavor for some reason. Like malted or not I guess. I’m not sure what actually malted wheat comes from but I imagine it’s from either one depending on what they have.

Thanks, mate. No worries, I've already googled it, too. The wheat grains, let'em be berries, why not

[RaceReadyStillz]

Oh yeah sorry brother, wheat berries is what they call the parts of the wheat they actually keep. That’s what we grind up into what’s used for baking ,Hard wheat Berries and Soft Berries have a difference in flavor for some reason. Like malted or not I guess. I’m not sure what actually malted wheat comes from but I imagine it’s from either one depending on what they have.

Thanks, mate. No worries, I've already googled it, too. The wheat grains, let'em be berries, why not

Yes unfortunately they have started identifying as berries, it’s a big social issue we are experiencing in America