My First Distilling Power Supply

[Rusty Ole Bucket]

I'm headed in the direction of building a power supply instead of buying something. I'm going to shoot for a 25a set up of typical design. The loose plan so far is as follows:

From my research here, this SCR seems to be a fairly reliable one, it's mentioned in several threads. I also like that it incorporates a fan, heat sink, relay and potentiometer all in one unit. Eazy Peezy.

This is the amp meter I thought might work. I've never used one of the pass-through type voltage readers; anyone have any experience?

I had planned to use a DIN style breaker for a switch and found this one that includes a surge protector & GFI. What's everyone's opinion on the surge protector? I can use a regular breaker just as easily and a little cheaper. I don't mind spending the extra $10 if it may save my kettle element.

Kinda figured I'd add a small bus bar for the grounds.

I'm kind thinking about using a 9x10 din rail box to hold everything, but I'm going to wait to get that after the components to make sure everything fits.

What do you think guys, am I headed in the right direction?

Rusty

[ozark_jake]

I gather from your 25A spec that this is for 220V. If so you might rather use something like this:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07W1 ... UTF8&psc=1

since it's rated up to 230V. I have one and it has worked well so far.

[Reefer1]

I made my own power controller and used the same ampmeter and scr i have used it probably 10 to 15 times and had no issue, just make sure the scr is the correct one for your element, mine is 25amp 240v my element is 2.1kw so the scr isnt pushed to its limit.
Good luck

[Rusty Ole Bucket]

I made my own power controller and used the same ampmeter and scr i have used it probably 10 to 15 times and had no issue, just make sure the scr is the correct one for your element, mine is 25amp 240v my element is 2.1kw so the scr isnt pushed to its limit.
Good luck

Thanks for the input, Reefer. I'm going to be using it with an electric Vevor kettle I picked up. I'm going to gut it and run it on a power supply instead of the temp dial/thermostat it comes with, a 'la Mooseman tea urn style. It's 120v and 1800w (15a) element so that should give me a good amount of head room on the circuit. Sorry, I should have mentioned the power requirements in the first post.

Rusty

[Rusty Ole Bucket]

I gather from your 25A spec that this is for 220V. If so you might rather use something like this:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07W1 ... UTF8&psc=1

since it's rated up to 230V. I have one and it has worked well so far.

Thanks for the input Jake, it's going to be used on a 120v 1800w (15a) kettle. I went with the 25a as a bit of overkill to make sure it stays nice and cool.

Rusty

[NZChris]

I doubt that SCR has a fan. That said, I use similar ones without a fan, just good ventilation

From the blurb, "*The meter can only measure the active power(real power). It doesn't show Apparent power. If you measure power from a DC-AC inverter please make sure it's PURE SINE WAVE. Otherwise the meter can be burnt or melted."

To me, that sounds like it should not be installed after the SCR.

I've had very little luck measuring Amps where an SCR is involved. They all told lies except for an old moving magnet Ammeter that I destroyed when I dropped it. I mark my dials from 0-100% to use for my records and only read my Ammeters when the SCR is being bypassed.
That said, it doesn't really matter if an Ammeter gives a false reading as long as it is consistent, and you don't have to replace it in the future.

[Rusty Ole Bucket]

I doubt that SCR has a fan. That said, I use similar ones without a fan, just good ventilation

From the blurb, "*The meter can only measure the active power(real power). It doesn't show Apparent power. If you measure power from a DC-AC inverter please make sure it's PURE SINE WAVE. Otherwise the meter can be burnt or melted."

To me, that sounds like it should not be installed after the SCR.

I've had very little luck measuring Amps where an SCR is involved. They all told lies except for an old moving magnet Ammeter that I destroyed when I dropped it. I mark my dials from 0-100% to use for my records and only read my Ammeters when the SCR is being bypassed.
That said, it doesn't really matter if an Ammeter gives a false reading as long as it is consistent, and you don't have to replace it in the future.

Thanks Chris. The SCR shows a fan in some of the photos, so I was assuming that it was included. I was actually thinking about seeing what the fan voltage was and using it to power an additional fan in the box. I've never used one of the loop meters before, other than an old school volt meter with the loop. I'll do some more research one what would work best or just follow your lead and mark the dial on the box to indicate position and not worry about the meter. I really like this analog one too, I may go with it. I like the old school look.

Any opinions on the inline surge protector? I use them a lot around the house for certain things, we end up with a lot of lightning storms down here. They come in handy to save anything inline. Our wireless dog fence, my motorcycle battery tenders, pasture fence charger, our house electronics, all have surge protectors. It's possible this setup could be running inside during a storm, so I when I found that breaker, I thought it might be helpful to avoid the big batta boom damage.

Rusty

[NZChris]

Analogue meters lie too, unless they are moving magnet type, so I've been told. I recently picked up a vintage one, but that just added to my pile of useless Ammeters as it didn't work at all.

I might be wrong about that, I can't find my notes for the type that works. It might be Moving Iron.

[Rusty Ole Bucket]

Analogue meters lie too, unless they are moving magnet type, so I've been told. I recently picked up a vintage one, but that just added to my pile of useless Ammeters as it didn't work at all.

I might be wrong about that, I can't find my notes for the type that works. It might be Moving Iron.

What would you suggest? Skipping the meter all together and just marking the dial? Add one in and just know that it's just a power indicator and can't be relied on?

Thanks for helping me work through the details Chris!

Rusty

[Yummyrum]

Rusty , if you are using 110-120v , use the SCR unit rated for that . Hopefully it has the right Potentiometer in it .
If you use the 230v unit , you’ll find that half the range of the Pot does nothing .

Regarding the volt/ammeter .As nz chris said , they are not accurate when measuring the current that an SCR (phase controller) chops up . Also , if you connect the voltage wires to the element , it will burn out . They need to have the voltage wires connected to the input . Unfortunately , it will always read 110v ,not what the element is getting . So all you can really use them for is the current range .

Steve broady did a hack that allows these meters to be connected to read the output voltage without burning out if you are game .

[Reefer1]

I did add a small fan to the heat sink, and a small fan to the vent holes in the mounting box, drilled a matrix of 6mm holes for air in and out works great, to be fair though Rusty. The only thing i take any notice of is the rheostat dial and the current in, as NZ says you dont know if the readout is accurate, but i find accutate or not i can set it at what works best, its what comes out of the spout that matters so i have marked my dial at certain positions for different configs like stripping, pot stilling and refluxing.
I also built a similar unit but the controller is a PID unit which uses the same scr the PID unit controls the temperature for mashing and maintain say 65c for as long as you need it to.
But ye mate any safety devices you get got to be good.
Reefer1

[Rusty Ole Bucket]

Rusty , if you are using 110-120v , use the SCR unit rated for that . Hopefully it has the right Potentiometer in it .
If you use the 230v unit , you’ll find that half the range of the Pot does nothing .

Regarding the volt/ammeter .As nz chris said , they are not accurate when measuring the current that an SCR (phase controller) chops up . Also , if you connect the voltage wires to the element , it will burn out . They need to have the voltage wires connected to the input . Unfortunately , it will always read 110v ,not what the element is getting . So all you can really use them for is the current range .

Steve broady did a hack that allows these meters to be connected to read the output voltage without burning out if you are game .

I will be running 120v so I think I have the right SCR picked out, I hope it's actually set up for 120v and not just branded that way by mistake.

I think this is Steve's hack your taking about. I just backed up and read the whole thread so I would understand content. I might actually try that, seems simple enough and those meters are cheap enough that I wouldn't mind digging into it. I do that sort of modification on a regular basis with RC components.

Rusty

[Rusty Ole Bucket]

I did add a small fan to the heat sink, and a small fan to the vent holes in the mounting box, drilled a matrix of 6mm holes for air in and out works great, to be fair though Rusty. The only thing i take any notice of is the rheostat dial and the current in, as NZ says you dont know if the readout is accurate, but i find accutate or not i can set it at what works best, its what comes out of the spout that matters so i have marked my dial at certain positions for different configs like stripping, pot stilling and refluxing.
I also built a similar unit but the controller is a PID unit which uses the same scr the PID unit controls the temperature for mashing and maintain say 65c for as long as you need it to.
But ye mate any safety devices you get got to be good.
Reefer1

I'm with you Reefer, I think I might give Steve's hack a try, but if I can't make that work I'm probably just not going to worry about a meter, just figure out where the power needs to be based on dial location. I don't have a meter on my propane setup, I just watch what it's doing and adjust accordingly. I think the only reason I'm looking at adding one is that there is one on most power supply's.

Rusty

[Salt Must Flow]

Why use an SCR if an amp meter is important to you? Why not use a SSVR, heatsink and potentiometer? Aren't those basic controller setups more friendly with amp meters?

[Rusty Ole Bucket]

Why use an SCR if an amp meter is important to you? Why not use a SSVR, heatsink and potentiometer? Aren't those basic controller setups more friendly with amp meters?

I don't know, I'll have to dig into that. I'm not 100% sure I understand the difference, I need to research it more for sure.

The amp or volt meter really isn't that important to me, the more I think about it. I mean, I don't have anything like that on my propane setup and I was able to adjust it just fine, out the gate. Maybe I'm over complicating something that's really not important in the grand scheme of things for the simple setup I'm going for with that Vevor.

Rusty

[Yummyrum]

Why use an SCR if an amp meter is important to you? Why not use a SSVR, heatsink and potentiometer? Aren't those basic controller setups more friendly with amp meters?

Those SCR controllers Rusty linked to are phase controllers just the same as SSVR and Pot . They have almost exactly the same circuit in them .So you can expect an Ammeter to behave the same on both .

LOL , I hate the name SCR controller as they actually have a Triac in them not an SCR .

[Steve Broady]

I think this is Steve's hack your taking about. I just backed up and read the whole thread so I would understand content. I might actually try that, seems simple enough and those meters are cheap enough that I wouldn't mind digging into it. I do that sort of modification on a regular basis with RC components.

Rusty

That’s the one, Rusty. I’ve been using that meter for a while now and have had absolutely zero issues with it. While I don’t have any more accurate meters to compare it to, it certainly seems consistent (which is most useful to me) and consistent with the numbers that others have shared and with general expectation. Meaning that 2kW on the meter does pretty much what you’d expect 2kW to do.

It’s an easy hack. If you’re at all comfortable with electronics, I say go for it.

[Rusty Ole Bucket]

Thanks for all the help, guys! I think I have it figured out and I'm gonna go for it. I'm going to stay super simple with it, the meter hack being the most complicated part. I just ordered one of the 110v model controllers, the breaker/surge protector, one of the volt/am meters, a 12awg cord to chop up for in/out and a din rail box to hold it all. I got a box that's probably a little larger than I need, but I thought the extra space might help with air flow. I'll definitely knock a few holes in the box for ventilation, but that size box will allow me to add a computer fan to it if the controller fan wont' keep up. I'm hoping since I've oversized it by 10a, it'll run cool without the additional fan.

Those SCR controllers Rusty linked to are phase controllers just the same as SSVR and Pot . They have almost exactly the same circuit in them .So you can expect an Ammeter to behave the same on both .

LOL , I hate the name SCR controller as they actually have a Triac in them not an SCR .

Thanks for the clarification, Yummy.

That’s the one, Rusty. I’ve been using that meter for a while now and have had absolutely zero issues with it. While I don’t have any more accurate meters to compare it to, it certainly seems consistent (which is most useful to me) and consistent with the numbers that others have shared and with general expectation. Meaning that 2kW on the meter does pretty much what you’d expect 2kW to do.

It’s an easy hack. If you’re at all comfortable with electronics, I say go for it.

Thanks Steve, I'm going to give it a try. I'll probably post up some pictures and have you guys look at them before I chop it up, just to make sure I understand. I think I do....

If I'm not mistaken, this should wrap up parts for the Electric Boozaloo II. I have all the stuff I need for the gut and to add the 2" ferrule on hand already. If this stuff makes it by Friday like it's supposed to, I'll probably try to assemble the box and gut the kettle this weekend.

Rusty

[Rusty Ole Bucket]

I got the power supply working today. I wound up using the original potentiometer, the 100k was too small and wouldn't zero out. I must have miscalculated somewhere, so I'm gonna move forward with only 1/3 of the travel working, but it's working pretty good. I did add one of those analog meters on top and it seems too agree with the digital meter and my volt/ohm meter.

Rusty

[Rusty Ole Bucket]

Couple more photos. This is running the Vevor pot at full power. We put a few gallons of water in it and let the power supply run it for 3 hours. Seemed to stay cool enough, output side of the scr got the warmest at 102°F. Everything else was 90°F or less.

Rusty

[shadylane]

I got the power supply working today. I wound up using the original potentiometer, the 100k was too small and wouldn't zero out. I must have miscalculated somewhere, so I'm gonna move forward with only 1/3 of the travel working,

Use a 2w carbon resistor in series with the pot.
Start with 10k ohm and see if the output will go to zero, if not add more resistance.

[Rusty Ole Bucket]

Use a 2w carbon resistor in series with the pot.
Start with 10k ohm and see if the output will go to zero, if not add more resistance.

Thanks Shady, I'll give that a try.

Rusty